General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[drron]

I also disagree. at the beginning it was all about reducing transmission and the 95% efficacy with Pfizer was trumpeted incessantly.
Then they realised that that efficacy didn't last long and by the end of 5 months that efficacy was <50%. Then after the second jab the efficacy dropped after 3-4 months and that was when the line became common that you needed the shots plus boosters to reduce your risk of severe disease.

But here is a report of a Canadian study of efficacy against infection a week after a 4th dose.

Published on July 6, 2022, this Canada-based study found the marginal effectiveness of a fourth dose (95% of vaccine recipients received Pfizer mRNA-1273 (Comirnaty) vaccine as the fourth dose) seven days or more after vaccination versus a third dose received 84 or more days previously was 19% (95% confidence interval 12% to 26%) against infection, 31% against symptomatic infection, and 40% against severe outcomes.

Omicron BA.x Subvariants Better at Evading Most COVID-19 Therapeutics

SARS-CoV-2 Omicron subvariants antibody evasion confirmed

www.coronavirustoday.com

And yet we have Health Ministers and various "experts" telling us to have the second booster to help prevent our hospitals being overrun. This when infections only reduced 19% and severe disease by 40%.
In pre covid days the Benchmark for vaccine efficacy was > 50% to be accepted for general use. We badly need new vaccines and preferably producing antibodies to other parts of the virus than the spike protein.

 

[Lynda2475]

The vaccine was never going to stop anyone getting covid.

But it does stop you getting seriously ill, and every healthy person I know who has been privileged enough to have a recent 4th booster (or very late 3rd booster) has been completely asymptomatic.

After living with my positive Dad (he tested positive Tuesday 5th, after having breaky with me on Sat 2nd, I tested positive on 3rd) my Mum tested positive yesterday. We had ant-virals on hand since Dad tested positive because she is severely imuno compromised and very under weight (43kgs, when a healthy weight for her height should be 60kg). But she cant swallow the capsules (pathetic I know but made herself throw up trying, normally Dad uses a pill cutter to chop tablets up and hide in food, but the anti virals only come in capsules) and you have to take 8 a day! Trying to work out if we can dissolve them in juice or something t get them into her.

 

[drron]

No it lowers the risk of severe illness and with the latest variants that reduction in severe illness is 40%. It is a bit better after a natural infection.

"Researchers observed that BNT162b2 PD3 immune sera neutralised USA-WA1/2020, BA.1-, BA.2-, BA.2.12.1-, BA.3-, BA.4/5-, and XD-spike (Deltacron) SARS-CoV-2 with geometric mean titres (GMTs) of 1,335, 393, 298, 315, 216, 103, and 301, respectively. All PD3 sera neutralised all variant-spike SARS-CoV-2 with neutralisation titres of > 20. However, neutralising GMTs against BA.1-, BA.2-, BA.2.12.1-, BA.3-, BA.4/5-, and XD-spike SARS-CoV-2 were 3.4-, 4.5-, 4.2-, 6.2-, 13.0-, and 4.4-fold lower than that against USA-WA1/2020 GMT, respectively."

"On the other hand, sera from BA.1-infected individuals neutralised USA-WA1/2020, BA.1-, BA.2-, BA.2.12.1-, BA.3-, BA.4/5-, and XD-spike viruses with GMTs of 15, 430, 110, 109, 102, 25, and 284, respectively. Thus, the neutralising GMTs against heterologous USA-WA1/2020-, BA.2-, BA.2.12.1-, BA.3-, BA.4/5-, and XD-spike SARS-CoV-2 were 28.7-, 3.9-, 3.9-, 4.2-, 17.2-, and 1.5-fold lower than that against homologous BA.1-spike virus, respectively."

https://dgalerts.docguide.com/ncov-ho

So against the B4/5 variants that are causing the present outbreal a 4.4 times lower efficacy if vaccinated and a 1.5 lower efficacy from natural infection.
And i have known folks with severe illness after having 4 shots.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

But it does stop you getting seriously ill,

I never said it didn't.

 

[love_the_life]

But it does stop you getting seriously ill, and every healthy person I know who has been privileged enough to have a recent 4th booster (or very late 3rd booster) has been completely asymptomatic.

After living with my positive Dad (he tested positive Tuesday 5th, after having breaky with me on Sat 2nd, I tested positive on 3rd) my Mum tested positive yesterday. We had ant-virals on hand since Dad tested positive because she is severely imuno compromised and very under weight (43kgs, when a healthy weight for her height should be 60kg). But she cant swallow the capsules (pathetic I know but made herself throw up trying, normally Dad uses a pill cutter to chop tablets up and hide in food, but the anti virals only come in capsules) and you have to take 8 a day! Trying to work out if we can dissolve them in juice or something t get them into her.

You should be able to pull the capsule apart and empty the contents into juice or similar. My mother used to do it often as she couldn’t swallow capsules.

 

[andye]

If it's Paxlovid, the manufacturer advises against breaking-not sure how critical this is
It has a number of drug interactions and important to be aware of kidney and liver function

 

[Lynda2475]

And i have known folks with severe illness after having 4 shots.

Who must either be in a high risk age group or imuno compromised, as the over 30s only became eligible for boosters today.

You should be able to pull the capsule apart and empty the contents into juice or similar. My mother used to do it often as she couldn’t swallow capsules.

Nope not permitted, Lagevrio needs to be swallowed whole and slowly released during digestion.

My Mum doesn't actually have a stomach (it was removed after cancer), she has a tiny fake stomach so as it is things go through her digestive tract super fast as she also lost a good portion of both bowels.

Anyway 39 minutes and she finally managed to swallow all 4 capsules. Herculean effort on her part and Dad is not looking forward to going through all that drama again in 12 hours. You'd think there would be a liquid form, or a way for them to make smaller tablets that are easier to take.

 

[Pushka]

You’d think there would be a liquid form, or a way for them to make smaller tablets that are easier to take.

One of them is. From Health.gov.au
Lagevrio capsules should not be opened, broken or crushed, however, if a resident or patient cannot swallow capsules whole, there is an option for an oral solution if deemed clinically necessary

 

[Lynda2475]

patient cannot swallow capsules whole, there is an option for an oral solution if deemed clinically necessary

Any doctors happen to know the name of the liquid one? Or is that for hospitalised patients only? I'm sure my Mums GP would be happy to revise the prescription, but he told my dad he only knew of the tablet and capsule ones.

 

[Pushka]

If it's Paxlovid, the manufacturer advises against breaking-not sure how critical this is
It has a number of drug interactions and important to be aware of kidney and liver function

I just checked and not that I had any symptoms this time, I can’t take paxlovid due to anticoagulants.

 

[Lynda2475]

Ronapreve (Roche) and Xevudy seems to be liquids but you need it via an IV or injection, so not practical for use at home.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Any doctors happen to know the name of the liquid one? Or is that for hospitalised patients only? I'm sure my Mums GP would be happy to revise the prescription, but he told my dad he only knew of the tablet and capsule ones.

I don’t think there is one available here.
I would speak to the GP and ask about alternatives if your mum can’t swallow eg. Sotrovimab infusion if considered suitable. There are existing pathways for referral for this. Note that most if not all of the existing infusions are not as effective against Omicron.

 

[Lynda2475]

I don’t think there is one available here.
I would speak to the GP and ask about alternatives if your mum can’t swallow eg. Sotrovimab infusion if considered suitable. There are existing pathways for referral for this. Note that most if not all of the existing infusions are not as effective against Omicron.

Thanks, now if my Mum had just gone and stayed with my sister last Sunday, she may have avoided this altogether. She is a stubborn one.

 

[JohnK]

Received a letter the other day addressed to the parent/carer of my daughter.

She is now eligible for vaccination and it mentions to book appointment blah blah blah.

Can anyone give me a good reason why she needs to be vaccinated?

I don't want to do the wrong thing by her but it looks like the forced vaccination push is over and those that chose not to be vaccinated are being rewarded.

By the way I am not against vaccines but I just cannot see one reason why she should vaccinated when the vaccine does not really offer much by way of protection.

 

[RooFlyer]

Oh, dear God ....

 

[Princess Fiona]

Received a letter the other day addressed to the parent/carer of my daughter.

She is now eligible for vaccination and it mentions to book appointment blah blah blah.

Can anyone give me a good reason why she needs to be vaccinated?

I don't want to do the wrong thing by her but it looks like the forced vaccination push is over and those that chose not to be vaccinated are being rewarded.

By the way I am not against vaccines but I just cannot see one reason why she should vaccinated when the vaccine does not really offer much by way of protection.

All the good reasons are here
ATAGI
All of my colleagues medical and nursing have had their kids in this age cohort vaccinated.

 

[Matt_01]

A question for the Medical Professionals when it comes to the 4th shot is there any advantage in mixing and matching. I have been vaxxed x2 AZ and Moderna MrsM has had x3 Pfizer. At this stage I was going to stay with Moderna and MrsM Pfizer but open to change if there are better mix options. Also is a booster available for 15+ in the US, we cannot her a booster for her in AU but may consider it when we get to the US or CA if approved and will not cause harm.

 

[Princess Fiona]

A question for the Medical Professionals when it comes to the 4th shot is there any advantage in mixing and matching. I have been vaxxed x2 AZ and Moderna MrsM has had x3 Pfizer. At this stage I was going to stay with Moderna and MrsM Pfizer but open to change if there are better mix options. Also is a booster available for 15+ in the US, we cannot her a booster for her in AU but may consider it when we get to the US or CA if approved and will not cause harm.

There is no particular advantage in mixing up the boosters.
In the USA 12yrs and up can get a booster.

 

[andye]

I was considering Moderna to supplement 3x Pfizer but mrsandye pointed out that I hadn't had problems with the Pfizer so why not stick.
I couldn't find any definitive evidence of an advantage of mixing so went Pfizer

 

[JohnK]

All the good reasons are here
ATAGI
All of my colleagues medical and nursing have had their kids in this age cohort vaccinated.

I'm sure there are many medical reasons to vaccinate.

Why are they allowing adults to remain unvaccinated? And no I don't buy personal choice, against my religion, I don’t know what's in the vaccine or all other lame excuses.

By the way this not aimed at those who cannot be vaccinated for genuine medical reasons.