General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[mviy]

Well Pfizer is currently being used for some people in 1A(?) and they could extend this to under 50s that are covered by 1B as well.

I wonder if once that's finished or nearly finished if they will then bring forward 2A for Aborigines under 50 and then 2B but only for Pfizer. I'm sure they will be thinking through what they can do to minimise how much the completion of vaccination is delayed.

Another possibility is that approval for Novavax gets rushed more than it would have otherwise, but that may not be considered possible to do safely.

I'm sure the government will be looking into all its options.

 

[Pushka]

So I am under 50 and have to wait longer, this is going to delay everything.

It might actually make things quicker for many and assuming they ( Aus Govt) can get Pfizer it shouldn't make much difference as younger ones were down the list anyway. There will be reduced demand for AZ so Group 2 can get started sooner. But also remember that many vulnerable younger people have had AZ and they must have compromised immune systems or some other significant medical issue and all but one person has been fine. More women on the pill get DVT's than from AZ so

 

[mviy]

But also remember that many vulnerable younger people have had AZ and they must have compromised immune systems and all but one person has been fine.

and those who have already had one dose of AZ with no significant adverse reaction can still get AZ for the second dose.

 

[mviy]

It might actually make things quicker for many and assuming they ( Aus Govt) can get Pfizer it shouldn't make much difference as younger ones were down the list anyway.

Pfizer can only be administered in limited sites, and whilst younger people can travel further, travelling further is a barrier to getting the vaccine.

I think consideration needs to be given to ordering more freezers and setting up Pfizer vaccine sites at more hospitals and at universities and other places that may be closer to where more young people live and work and study. If 2B still won't start for quite a while that will give some time to plan, though getting more of the special freezers could be difficult with the high demand.

 

[justinbrett]

Sounds like 1b won't be delayed for essential workers - under 50s "prioritised" for Pfizer but they'll get AZ otherwise.

 

[ethernet]

Sigh, what Wallys. There is zero independent thinking, nor is anyone thinking about Pfizer 2nd shot adverse reactions (and AZ too). Now do you trust the local hospitals ER dept to run platelet tests fast, and administer what if clot-buster drugs in a timely manner. I don't. Both boosters are marginal, and we now know TIME alone seems to boost effectiveness. I would prefer to waive my rights , and get one of each. Govt replies - oh we don't know.. Well in .au there is no universal vaccine adverse reaction insurance.

Before any shot, I will boost on Vits D(Has B12 and Mg as well), Zinc and C, and Iodine, elderberry and sfa alcohol, and plan not to work the day after. Nobody is asking what these clot allergic people have in common. I will guess lack of sleep is one factor, diet and blood tests may pop out another.

Ultimately the lesson is different doses for different age groups and weight. The goal is to prevent deaths, and ICU. One shot will do.

 

[drron]

And according to Harvard Medical school the incidence of the clots associated with the AZ vaccine is 5 per million per year prior to Covid.

 

[Lynda2475]

Anyone one in 1a or 1b who is over 50 and has yet to receive their first shot should now only be offered AZ to free up more Pfizer for those in 1a and 1b under 50. The Fed government still has many nursing homes to get to, it will be easier to offer AZ at non hospital locations.

Being under 50 im happy to wait for Pfizer, hoping the govt can source more sooner, but suspect i'll be waiting into next year.

I also hope that if Novavax is approved, the govt cancels further AZ orders from CSL and directs them to make Novavax instead. As that is tracking for mid year,, there should be plenty of AZ on hand for anyone still needing a second shot.

And again time to offer some incentives for a vaccine manufacturer who can make mrna types locally to do so. The technology used in AZ is older than me, we need to embrace newer capabilities. Mrna vaccines will continue to be developed for many other diseases too. Australia could become the pacific supplier for these.

 

[Saab34]

There will be a long wait for Pzifer though in large scale numbers. August/September I am talking about once the other big nations slow their supply.

 

[blackcat20]

Contraceptive pill has a greater risk of blood clots than AZ. Interesting.

I had to stop taking it as the combination with migraines put me at a higher risk of stroke.

 

[ethernet]

Profiling. I know one 46 yo F, wont take AZ on religious grounds(embryo). Best friend with social services home for oldies administrator. 65 F double mastectomy and reconstruction. &2yo make, who survived a burst aorta when on MRI table!. According to the rules - all get AZ. No interest in checking their BMI, or hard luck stories. As they feel herded towards AZ, they will probably not vaccinate - yeah - sad.

 

[ethernet]

I had to stop taking it as the combination with migraines put me at a higher risk of stroke.

The Germans have isolated a new 'factor'. Maybe they will open up and discover the why to this problem. In another study, Paracetamol is not proved to be beneficial./ effective for may pains.

 

[mviy]

The government would have prepared plans for if say Pfizer was the only approved vaccine. They'll need to dust off that plan and quickly take some things from that to try to optimise the rollout in light of the new requirements.

Anyone one in 1a or 1b who is over 50 and has yet to receive their first shot should now only be offered AZ to free up more Pfizer for those in 1a and 1b under 50. The Fed government still has many nursing homes to get to, it will be easier to offer AZ at non hospital locations.

Agreed.

Being under 50 im happy to wait for Pfizer, hoping the govt can source more sooner, but suspect i'll be waiting into next year.

I hope not, but that is a real possibility.

I also hope that if Novavax is approved, the govt cancels further AZ orders from CSL and directs them to make Novavax instead. As that is tracking for mid year,, there should be plenty of AZ on hand for anyone still needing a second shot.

CSL has shown that it values its history as a former government enterprise, recognises that most Australians hold CSL shares indirectly through their super, if not outside of super as well, and would be expected to be reasonable in negotiations with the government to support the national interest.

And again time to offer some incentives for a vaccine manufacturer who can make mrna types locally to do so. The technology used in AZ is older than me, we need to embrace newer capabilities. Mrna vaccines will continue to be developed for many other diseases too. Australia could become the pacific supplier for these.

The government has already announced incentives for this exact purpose for CSL to have a new facility that would be able to do this. It's scheduled to be ready in 2026. Whilst I suspect this could be brought forward perhaps with additional government financial support and cutting red tape, perhaps by some months or even a year or two, they're not going to magically make it ready later this year. These things take time. There are numerous very strict standards that vaccine facilities need to comply with to safely produce vaccines. The last thing we would want is for this to be unduly rushed and find the new facility needs extensive renovations to be usable for the purpose for which it is built.

 

[ethernet]

Blood Clot FAQ Here

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Treatment: https://gth-online.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/GTH_Stellungnahme_AstraZeneca_engl._3_22_2021.pdf

Flu-like symptoms such as joint, muscle and headache that persist for 1–2 days after vaccination are a common side effect and are not a cause for concern.In the event of side effects that persist or recur > 3 days after vaccination (e.g., dizziness; headache; visual disturbances; nausea / vomiting; shortness of breath; acute pain in chest, abdomen, or extremities), further medical diagnostics should be carried out to clarify a thrombosis.

A positive test result thus establishes the diagnosis of vaccine-induced prothrombotic immune thrombocytopenia (VIPIT). Until (autoimmune) HIT is ruled out, if the clinical situation, availability and experience permit, anticoagulation with heparins should be avoided and alternative, HIT-compatible anticoagulants should be used.

 

[justinbrett]

Being under 50 im happy to wait for Pfizer, hoping the govt can source more sooner, but suspect i'll be waiting into next year.

Are you in 1b? I got the impression the government will prioritise Pfizer for under 50s but they'll still use AZ to make up the difference (as they obviously won't have enough). I don't think anybody in 1b will be waiting more than a few months.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I don't know where they will get the extra Pfizer, but I wonder if this could mean that they start 2B earlier than planned but only for Pfizer jabs? I would aim to book a jab as soon as I'm allowed to and would be willing to travel a significant distance to get it.

The problems with obtaining ordered vaccines has been pretty much with the AstraZeneca doses. It's possible Pfizer could be able to scale up its production a bit.

If Pfizer is going to be the way forward for under 50s then in my opinion the government needs to take steps to order more of the special freezers needed to deliver the Pfizer vaccine so they can increase the number of Pfizer vaccine sites.

I doubt they have enough Pfizer so far for 1A and 1B who are under 50.
And it’s not the storage that’s the issue. It’s supply.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Contraceptive pill has a greater risk of blood clots than AZ. Interesting.

Pregnancy has a higher risk of blood clots than the pill.

Risk is all relative really.

 

[mviy]

I'm pretty sure I heard that long haul flying especially in economy has a higher risk of blood clots than the vaccine.

I doubt they have enough Pfizer so far for 1A and 1B who are under 50.

I agree those need to be done first and then there's 2A under 50s as well before we get to 2B.

And it’s not the storage that’s the issue. It’s supply.

If they find a way to obtain increased supply then more vaccine sites and more places to store it will be beneficial as well. In my opinion they need to work on both.

 

[drron]

I doubt they have enough Pfizer so far for 1A and 1B who are under 50.
And it’s not the storage that’s the issue. It’s supply.

The government initially bought 10 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine. It was to be delivered at a million doses a month from February
Last I heard it was only 300000 doses a month. So definitely not enough for everyone under 50.

 

[Pushka]

I'm pretty sure I heard that long haul flying especially in economy has a higher risk of blood clots than the vaccine.

I agree those need to be done first and then there's 2A under 50s as well before we get to 2B.

If they find a way to obtain increased supply then more vaccine sites and more places to store it will be beneficial as well. In my opinion they need to work on both.

Any situation that stops you moving creates the risk for blood clots. Heparin is routinely given prior to major surgery as a preventive. Lying in bed for days is a risk factor. HRT can be a risk factor. Contraceptives are a risk factor. Auto immune illnesses are a risk factor. And sometimes they just happen. Perhaps they should remove The Pill off the medicines list if this risk factor for AZ is deemed so great. Interesting that the Pill doesn't raise any concern but AZ which is given to males and females, does.