General Discussion/Q&A on Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[juddles]

In my perception the PM is sufferring from poor guidance. I am sure that everything he says is fed to him by others, so in that sense I blame those faceless "others" more than him.

In a time of crisis (is that too big a word - not sure?) a nation needs direct leadership from their head of state. And that leadership needs to have a clear line and deliver it. Scomo made an absolute fiasco with his smiling assurance that he would be attending the footy on the weekend. Apart from my feeling that that was a ridiculous position to hold at the start, the fact that he was forced within 24 hrs into a backflip must have eroded any confidence in him that the plebs held.

Now the government is saying that large gatherings are naughty, but school is ok. Completely unfathomable position - only understandable if one takes into account some behind-the-lines planning. But clearly a concept that is out of kilter with the experiences of other countries. And my money is on him having to yet again do a backflip in the next few days and close schools. So then he will have taken two important stances and been forced to backtrack on both - how faith-inspiring will this be from a leader??

He just keeps parroting the same nonsense phrases - his comfort zone is saying "we must listen to the experts" and "our response is scale-able". I have not yet seen any hint of emotion or much more importantly , conviction. Rating out of ten in a crisis: 1.

 

[teammongo]

Having done locums in rural oz, I am well aware of the need. But at-risk personnel (be it age, immunosuppression, co-morbid disease) are best utilitized "away from the front", eg telemedicine, logistics. Not keeping your staff safe, is a fatal first step to staff losing confidence in the system. They will simply not come back to work, as in what happened in SARS.

In my institution, we have already implemented these measures.

 

[JessicaTam]

[mod hat]
Some recent posts referencing religion have been removed.

Please take the time to consider the repercussions of what you post. This is a trying time for us all and there is no need to add to the stress levels.
[/mod hat]

Besides - I am off to bed!

 

[DC3]

In my perception the PM is sufferring from poor guidance. I am sure that everything he says is fed to him by others, so in that sense I blame those faceless "others" more than him ...

The trouble here is that as soon as we point the finger at the PM on the handling of the coronavirus situation, we are accused (to put it mildly) of politicising the issue.

 

[juddles]

The trouble here is that as soon as we point the finger at the PM on the handling of the coronavirus situation, we are accused (to put it mildly) of politicising the issue.

I am being completely apolitical in my criticism. You raise in me a small smile - simply thinking that thank God it is not labor in charge right now

 

[DC3]

I am being completely apolitical in my criticism. You raise in me a small smile - simply thinking that thank God it is not labor in charge right now

No, no. Just the opposite. That was not where I was coming from. I agree with your comments.

Anyway, not much point in criticising Labor as they are not the decision makers in this anyway.

Edit: Believe me, as I feel like I’ve been copping flack just by merely thinking about the Government response to the Coronavirus issue. I seem to be upsetting some even before I hit the enter button.

 

[amaroo]

The trouble here is that as soon as we point the finger at the PM on the handling of the coronavirus situation, we are accused (to put it mildly) of politicising the issue.

Because it is! This 1 in 100 year international emergency requires everyone coming together, the old tribal political hate means nothing- It's useless and totally pointless.

Just forget about politics and focus on making a difference with your family and the terribly exposed ones in our community. There are so many that need help, put that anger towards volunteering to the aged, particularly the isolated singles in homes.

It's time to stop asking what the government will do, it's time to start thinking what you can do!

 

[teammongo]

amaroo, Not a truer word has been said!

 

[DC3]

Because it is! This 1 in 100 year international emergency requires everyone coming together, the old tribal political hate means nothing- It's useless and totally pointless.

Just forget about politics and focus on making a difference with your family and the terribly exposed ones in our community. There are so many that need help, put that anger towards volunteering to the aged, particularly the isolated singles in homes.

It's time to stop asking what the government will do, it's time to start thinking what you can do!

Oh, no. He’s got me again, while I was editing.

Edit: Can’t even finish an edit.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Given the performance of the CMO recently, and on today’s TV, and the changing of opinion on quarantine on cabinet ministers after meeting one who has been tested positive 24 (ish) hours later, one maybe has to start to question his breadth of knowledge and handling of advice.

Adopting the uk view on herd immunity for school aged children is interesting and really not scientifically proven, especially with an unknown virus. But we will see. Maybe yes, maybe no.

 

[drron]

Now I hear what people are saying re keeping on working but I am 73 so have done more than my fair share and of course in one of the highest risk groups.Plus having worked at quite a few regional hospitals I really wouldn't feel safe at most.
However you can all relax as I have just applied for a job-it is one of the most remote places a physician can work in Australia so the risk of Covid 19 not so great.But it is also an area where I feel I can do a lot of good.

This week has been really hard and nothing to do with the virus.Yes travel plans have been demolished and it is quite likely I will not get to do many of those things on my bucket list.But then I have done so much more travel than i ever thought I would do.

And it has not been terrible because our retirement plans have taken a battering-and seeing I am well into retirement years unlikely to fully recover.

Now if any one is going to be offended or disturbed about the subject of domestic violence please do not read further.


No a week ago I was hit hard.The fellow who was one of my best friends In the first 3 years of medicine I had believed committed suicide some 25 years ago.This had made sense to me as one of the reasons we had been close was sometimes sharing the presence of the black dog.
However exactly one week ago I was reading a news site when a name stood out-the same surname as my former friend spelt in a slightly unusual way as his was.It happened to be an article about his daughter and her life.He was divorced from her mother but remarried and had another daughter.He did not first take his own life but in fact murdered his second wife and infant daughter before killing himself.
With what happened in Brisbane just recently this really hurt.Especially watching the funeral on the news.
What really hurt was that he had moved and lived about 40km from us.All these thoughts go through your head about could i have done something had I known-of course i know I couldn't.
So what ever Covid throws up to you there are things that are much more important in life.
Sorry but i just needed to get this off my chest.
So time for me now to go to bed.

 

[juddles]

It is perhaps foolish as a non-medical person to dare to question someone who has risen to the exalted status of CMO in this country. But for Christ's sake, why are we not immediately copying the measures that seem to be proven so effective elsewhere?? Australia as been fortunate in being a few days behind the curves seen in other countries, but it seems in my feeble knowledge-position that we are not learning from those, even though they should give us some advantage.

Anyone except a total tool should see that we are going to have to invoke drastic measures. And likewise, only such tools would not get that the earlier the better.

 

[DC3]

It is perhaps foolish as a non-medical person to dare to question someone who has risen to the exalted status of CMO in this country. But for Christ's sake, why are we not immediately copying the measures that seem to be proven so effective elsewhere?? Australia as been fortunate in being a few days behind the curves seen in other countries, but it seems in my feeble knowledge-position that we are not learning from those, even though they should give us some advantage.

Anyone except a total tool should see that we are going to have to invoke drastic measures. And likewise, only such tools would not get that the earlier the better.

Warning, Will Robinson. Danger. Danger.

 

[p--and--t]

I received the following on social media and cannot confirm the authenticity of the source.

However it is a sobering read.

Here’s the viewpoint of a senior doctor from Europe... where hindsight is 20-20.

"It's the civic and moral duty of every person, everywhere, to take part in the global effort to reduce this threat to humanity. "

*****

I'm a doctor in a major hospital in Italy. Watching Americans Brits in these still-early days of the coronavirus pandemic is like watching a familiar horror movie.

The real-life versions of this behavior are pretending this is just a flu; keeping schools open; following through with your holiday travel plans, and going into the office daily. This is what we did in Italy. We were so complacent that even when people with coronavirus symptoms started turning up, we wrote each off as a nasty case of the flu. We kept the economy going, pointed fingers at China and urged tourists to keep traveling. And the majority of us told ourselves and each other: this isn't so bad. We're young, we're fit, we'll be fine even if we catch it.

Fast-forward two months, and we are drowning. Statistically speaking—judging by the curve in China—we are not even at the peak yet, but our fatality rate is at over 6 percent, double the known global average.

Put aside statistics. Here is how it looks in practice. Most of my childhood friends are now doctors working in north Italy. In Milan, in Bergamo, in Padua, they are having to choose between intubating a 40-year-old with two kids, a 40-year old who is fit and healthy with no co-morbidities, and a 60-year-old with high blood pressure, because they don't have enough beds. In the hallway, meanwhile, there are another 15 people waiting who are already hardly breathing and need oxygen.

The army is trying to bring some of them to other regions with helicopters but it's not enough: the flow is just too much, too many people are getting sick at the same time.

We are still awaiting the peak of the epidemic in Europe: probably early April for Italy, mid-April for Germany and Switzerland, somewhere around that time for the UK. In the U.S., the infection has only just begun.

But until we're past the peak, the only solution is to impose social restrictions.

And if your government is hesitating, these restrictions are up to you. Stay put. Do not travel. Cancel that family reunion, the promotion party and the big night out. This really sucks, but these are special times. Don't take risks. Do not go to places where you are more than 20 people in the same room. It's not safe and it's not worth it.

But why the urgency, if most people survive?Here's why: Fatality is the wrong yardstick. Catching the virus can mess up your life in many, many more ways than just straight-up killing you. "We are all young"—okay. "Even if we get the bug, we will survive"—fantastic. How about needing four months of physical therapy before you even feel human again. Or getting scar tissue in your lungs and having your activity level restricted for the rest of your life. Not to mention having every chance of catching another bug in hospital, while you're being treated or waiting to get checked with an immune system distracted even by the false alarm of an ordinary flu. No travel for leisure or business is worth this risk.

Now, odds are, you might catch coronavirus and might not even get symptoms. Great. Good for you. Very bad for everyone else, from your own grandparents to the random older person who got on the subway train a stop or two after you got off. You're fine, you're barely even sneezing or coughing, but you're walking around and you kill a couple of old ladies without even knowing it. Is that fair? You tell me.

My personal as well as professional view: we all have a duty to stay put, except for very special reasons, like, you go to work because you work in healthcare, or you have to save a life and bring someone to hospital, or go out to shop for food so you can survive. But when we get to this stage of a pandemic, it's really important not to spread the bug. The only thing that helps is social restriction. Ideally, the government should issue that instruction and provide a financial fallback—compensate business owners, ease the financial load on everyone as much as possible and reduce the incentive of risking your life or the lives of others just to make ends meet. But if your government or company is slow on the uptake, don't be that person. Take responsibility. For all but essential movement, restrict yourself.

This is epidemiology 101. It really sucks. It is extreme—but luckily, we don't have pandemics of this violence every year. So sit it out. Stay put. Don't travel. It is absolutely not worth it.

It's the civic and moral duty of every person, everywhere, to take part in the global effort to reduce this threat to humanity. To postpone any movement or travel that are not vitally essential, and to spread the disease as little as possible. Have your fun in June, July and August when this—hopefully—is over. Stay safe..

 

[amaroo]

Article in the SMH suggested that anyone that survives this thing will have serious issues with heart, lungs, kidneys, etc for many years.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It is perhaps foolish as a non-medical person to dare to question someone who has risen to the exalted status of CMO in this country. But for Christ's sake, why are we not immediately copying the measures that seem to be proven so effective elsewhere?? Australia as been fortunate in being a few days behind the curves seen in other countries, but it seems in my feeble knowledge-position that we are not learning from those, even though they should give us some advantage.

Anyone except a total tool should see that we are going to have to invoke drastic measures. And likewise, only such tools would not get that the earlier the better.

I wonder if it is a 'matter of time' thing? Shutting school today doesn't give administrators time to work through the myriad of issues that surround such a closing. For example, closing primary schools means one parent is likely to have to stay at home and not go in to work. Can they work from home? Does the company have secure computers to work from home? if the person can't work, do they get paid? Which leave do they use (sick leave, holiday leave, 'special' leave?). If they have no leave left? If the parent is a paramedic, health care professional, who takes their place... and so on. Even if a company has computers for people to work at home, the parent still needs to come in to work to pick up that computer, something that might not be possible if all the kids are at home.

I think the next couple of days will give work places the opportunity to answer all those issues and then we might be ready for a lock-down. Who knows if we can afford to wait those extra few days

 

[amaroo]

I wonder if it is a 'matter of time' thing? Shutting school today doesn't give administrators time to work through the myriad of issues that surround such a closing. For example, closing primary schools means one parent is likely to have to stay at home and not go in to work. Can they work from home? Does the company have secure computers to work from home? if the person can't work, do they get paid? Which leave do they use (sick leave, holiday leave, 'special' leave?). If they have no leave left? If the parent is a paramedic, health care professional, who takes their place... and so on. Even if a company has computers for people to work at home, the parent still needs to come in to work to pick up that computer, something that might not be possible if all the kids are at home.

I think the next couple of days will give work places the opportunity to answer all those issues and then we might be ready for a lock-down. Who knows if we can afford to wait those extra few days

Don't overload the masses with commonsense

 

[TheRealTMA]

Don't overload the masses with commonsense

It’s not a matter of “commonsense”. It’s a matter of national leadership and correct informed scientific advice.

 

[dajop]

So, are Australian office buildings temperature screening yet? We get screen on entry into building, and twice a day in office. Anyone with temperature is sent home immediately.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Remember the Australian Red Cross Blood Bank is still operating and wanting donations. Instead of a panic shop this week my wife donated.