General Discussion/Q&A on Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[RooFlyer]

People had to download for it to work. Given the current audience that’s unlikely.

Yes, with minority/non English groups complaining that the more basic anti-covid measures may not have properly communicated to their communities, the COVIDSafe App probably didn't get much airtime. But that won't stop the app being labelled a 'failure', because its the gov'mint's fault that people didn't download it enough.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Yes, with minority/non English groups complaining that the more basic anti-covid measures may not have properly communicated to their communities, the COVIDSafe App probably didn't get much airtime. But that won't stop the app being labelled a 'failure', because its the gov'mint's fault that people didn't download it enough.

Facts required not politics.

 

[RooFlyer]

I didn't see the show, but maybe some others here did:

Appearing on the ABC’s 7.30 on Wednesday, Premier Daniel Andrews twice declined to directly answer why the Victorian government had opted for private firms instead of police.
...

The security companies that oversaw Victoria’s bungled coronavirus quarantine regime were handed contracts without a formal tender process as the government rushed to implement a national cabinet decision to lock down returning overseas travellers.

The Australian has confirmed three private security firms — MSS, Unified and Wilson — were given the contracts without having to qualify through a formal tender process after national cabinet ordered mandatory hotel quarantine on March 28.
...

The decision contrasted with that of NSW, which used police rather than private security contractors. It was also at odds with the national cabinet recommendation to use police or defence personnel. The Australian has also confirmed that the private security operators used subcontractors in some instances to enforce the hotel quarantine regime in Victoria.

While on the other hand

Contractors working on hotel owned by Liberal donors exempted from coronavirus quarantine

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I didn't see the show, but maybe some others here did:

Appearing on the ABC’s 7.30 on Wednesday, Premier Daniel Andrews twice declined to directly answer why the Victorian government had opted for private firms instead of police.
...

The security companies that oversaw Victoria’s bungled coronavirus quarantine regime were handed contracts without a formal tender process as the government rushed to implement a national cabinet decision to lock down returning overseas travellers.

The Australian has confirmed three private security firms — MSS, Unified and Wilson — were given the contracts without having to qualify through a formal tender process after national cabinet ordered mandatory hotel quarantine on March 28.
...

The decision contrasted with that of NSW, which used police rather than private security contractors. It was also at odds with the national cabinet recommendation to use police or defence personnel. The Australian has also confirmed that the private security operators used subcontractors in some instances to enforce the hotel quarantine regime in Victoria.

While on the other hand

Contractors working on hotel owned by Liberal donors exempted from coronavirus quarantine

Well with CV 19 the mantra is test, test, test.

Well with contracts you need a proper specification, and then you need to check that you are getting what you are paying for with proper auditing and inspection including any contract variations. It would seem that none of this was was done.

Now I can understand that yes at first that you may have to get something up and running quickly as it was a new measure with not much notice and so you have to make an interim arrangement. But it would seem that we never got out of the interim stage into a proper contract.


Equally the management of the security firms all have a duty of care to have acted better, and I personally hope that all get raked over the coals. Adequate protocols were easily available and so they should justify why they did not implement them. Their priority seems to have been to have to make a quick buck.

 

[Pushka]

And the headlines today about the various tactics used by the security employees to make hay while the sun shines. Shame on them.

 

[tgh]

The bug clearly studied the "nature of humans" manual before completing its final design and release to the world.
It simply isn't nasty enough to frighten enough people enough of the time.
Here in Qld it's back to the old ways. Social distancing ? Only if I remember and I don't need to be in your space to do what I want to do.
Re-opening of society is probably necessary for social and economic stability, but this allows the bug to slowly and steadily proliferate.

 

[Pushka]

The bug clearly studied the "nature of humans" manual before completing its final design and release to the world.
It simply isn't nasty enough to frighten enough people enough of the time.
Here in Qld it's back to the old ways. Social distancing ? Only if I remember and I don't need to be in your space to do what I want to do.
Re-opening of society is probably necessary for social and economic stability, but this allows the bug to slowly and steadily proliferate.

But maybe more ‘safely’?

 

[tgh]

But maybe more ‘safely’?

Can't see any safety in proliferation, all a slow burn does is to guarantee the critical patients ICU access.
The ratio of seriousness doesn't change and the death rate for 1st world treatment will not change either.

 

[p--and--t]

The bug clearly studied the "nature of humans" manual before completing its final design and release to the world.
It simply isn't nasty enough to frighten enough people enough of the time.
Here in Qld it's back to the old ways. Social distancing ? Only if I remember and I don't need to be in your space to do what I want to do.
Re-opening of society is probably necessary for social and economic stability, but this allows the bug to slowly and steadily proliferate.

As has been repeated regularly by authorities an outbreak can occur anywhere. It only takes one or two people and a non-social distancing populace. Ye twhen I mentioned on AFF about the reversion to previous practices in WA pubs & clubs, I was told there is nothing to worry about

 

[Pushka]

But maybe more ‘safely’?

Can't see any safety in proliferation, all a slow burn does is to guarantee the critical patients ICU access.
The ratio of seriousness doesn't change and the death rate for 1st world treatment will not change either.

The idea was always to flatten the curve so that people who required access to additional support could receive this.

 

[Princess Fiona]

New study in JAMA looking at excess deaths in USA due to the pandemic
Estimation Of Excess Deaths Due To COVID-19 Pandemic
Pretty interesting reading. The authors have the number of all cause excess deaths during that period as 28% higher overall than the Covid-19 deaths.
Many of these excess deaths may well be COVID-19 but not registered as such.

 

[AisleSeat]

Taiwan is offering fake flights for travel starved tourists.

You go to the airport, through passport control, security, board the plane..... but don't go anywhere.

So you get to experience the least enjoyable part of travel, all the while trying to avoid contracting coronavirus.

Check in but never leave: Taiwan offers fake flights for travel-starved tourists

Starved of the travel experience during the coronavirus lockdown? One Taiwanese airport has the solution - a fake itinerary where you check in, go through passport control and security and even board the aircraft. You just never leave.

mobile.reuters.com

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The idea was always to flatten the curve so that people who required access to additional support could receive this.

I think that's right. The idea *was* to flatten the curve. Until we worked out ventilators didn't really work to save people. Then the focus shifted to prevention.

 

[Pushka]

I think that's right. The idea *was* to flatten the curve. Until we worked out ventilators didn't really work to save people. Then the focus shifted to prevention.

It's difficult to determine cause and effect, and the contribution of pre exisiting medical conditions. And the more they find out about the damage that Covid does the better they can treat. For instance more recently the focus has become one of blood clotting issues rather than assuming that ventilators were the only answer. Blood clotting issues cause stroke, heart attacks and kidney damage as an example. Ventilators won't fix that.

Some are actually shown signs of APS which is a blood clotting disorder (and which I have 'naturally') meaning that's the risk of having blood clots anywhere (Heart, lungs, brain, kidneys) . The correct treatment for that is blood thinner. Which I'm on.

Victoria has shown that the slightest slip up and the genie is out of the bottle. We can't prevent and expect to live any kind of a life.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We can't prevent and expect to live any kind of a life.

i agree with your concerns on a long term basis.

But at the moment we are in very early stages - about 3 months in. There are lots of vaccines and other treatments in development which we should have some idea of effectiveness by say mid 2021.

If those are shown ineffective, then we will need to look at the new world and how we cope with it. But until we can dismiss prevention or treatment, I personally don't think we should go for the 'Sweden approach' and just give up.

Deaths cost the economy. Tourism and hospitality may be complaining for a few months now, but if you took away 100,000 people they'd be complaining for years, not months.

 

[Pushka]

Tourism and hospitality may be complaining for a few months now, but if you took away 100,000 people they'd be complaining for years, not months.

But sadly it's just those industries that have the loudest voices but many many others are hurting as much.

 

[p--and--t]

But sadly it's just those industries that have the loudest voices but many many others are hurting as much.

Cirque du Soleil, several circus's, theatre companies, private zoos and other entertainment related companies have collapsed and artists (of various types) are typically casual or session workers have been hit badly. Doubly hit as many of them supplement their incomes by casual hospitality jobs. I fear we may lose forever a lot of talented but severely disheartened and despondent people in coming months (and I'm not referring to another industry)

 

[TheRealTMA]

Cirque du Soleil, several circus's, theatre companies, private zoos and other entertainment related companies have collapsed and artists (of various types) are typically casual or session workers have been hit badly. Doubly hit as many of them supplement their incomes by casual hospitality jobs. I fear we may lose forever a lot of talented but severely disheartened and despondent people in coming months (and I'm not referring to another industry)

Why can’t JobKeeper support the Arts?

 

[drron]

And even dentists may go under.

Listed dental firm Smiles Inclusive battles to keep the lights on

It's been toothbrushes at ten paces at Smiles as the company's relationship with some of its key joint venture partners has soured over the past six months.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Pushka]

Why can’t JobKeeper support the Arts?

Because likely they aren't employees.