General Medical issues thread

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Who is to say they see it as being of a benefit for them that others are vaccinated?

Everyone values things in life differently than the next. Just because one sees something as a benefit, is wrong to assume all see it as a benefit.

As you elude to, Informed Choice and Informed Consent are two fundamental principles that are worth upholding in society as a whole, and if that freedom is at the cost of some who choose not to take up logical options like vaccinations - we shouldn't victimize them for using a fundamental principle that is in everyone's best interest to hold firm and strong to.

The opposite is a government who dictate what medication we must or cannot take. A very slippery slope I don't wish upon any country.

Freedom for the adult, but not when they are making decisions for a child who cannot argue otherwise?

 

[Pushka]

The totally off-topic thread

I had a GP once tell me that I had Lupus and went to a specialist, who looked at the test results and said "why are you here". Very happy with that outcome.

While on hols, I sent a few postcards to nephew and his friend in Qld - both have Downs. Anyway, hes a huge country music fan and he finally waded out through the water after the floods to get his mail and got his postcard from the Country Music Hall of Fame. Straight to the pool room I was told, already on the wall

(99%) of GP's should not diagnose lupus. Are GP's allowed to prescribe plaquenil, methotrexate and corticosteroids?

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

(99%) of GP's should not diagnose lupus. Are GP's allowed to prescribe plaquenil, methotrexate and corticosteroids?

Lupus is difficult to diagnose.
yes GP can prescribe them but its the initiation of the first prescription that requires specialist consideration/input.

As you elude to, Informed Choice and Informed Consent are two fundamental principles that are worth upholding in society as a whole, and if that freedom is at the cost of some who choose not to take up logical options like vaccinations - we shouldn't victimize them for using a fundamental principle that is in everyone's best interest to hold firm and strong to.

Its more complicated when another person is involved.
And then there is the issue of suicide and voluntary euthanasia. Both can involve deep insight/ informed choice but both are technically illegal. Freedom to die?
Dont forget compulsory voting. Freedom to not vote?

 

[anat0l]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

While I totally respect people's right to manage their own health (and do it myself), how you can take a risk with a baby against proven science and medical advice, leaves me bemused.

Simple - people deny the science is convincing or absolute. There are many reasons for this, and to many who are of a scientific school of thought, none of them seem rational.

I'm not even referring solely to the fraudulent autism study that argued against vaccines. There are people on this forum who think science (not just vaccine science) is a crock, and you have no right to invalidate that assertion.

Vaccine science is not the only field where there can't be agreement because "science". Anthropogenic climate change is another.

My niece and I can't have live vaccines due to lupus. Compulsory vaccination is an issue.

How do people with lupus then ward off or avoid getting vaccinated diseases like whooping cough, mumps and so on? Not saying you're wrong and what not, I am curious (spoken as someone who has had all their vaccine shots without side effects).

If vaccines are not practicable to achieve the aims it's set to achieve, then what are the alternatives, save for treating all cases of these diseases as they happen?

 

[mushez]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Freedom for the adult, but not when they are making decisions for a child who cannot argue otherwise?

Its a slippery slope. As soon as you get into government making a choice on what medication one must use and have no choice - you take away peoples informed consent.

Argument about Adam and Eve (or Steve) is the same - why didn't God just put a big fence around the tree? Or have the tree in the first place?

More damage is done when a single power (aka government) dictates what everyone does - that guiding them with options to make an informed choice.


Personally - more damage is caused to kids these days with the names some are being called - than choice to vaccinate or not. Not vaccinating is putting them at risk - names given to them is causing un deniable damage. My point - if government dictates kids must be vaccinated and out of parents hands - parents choices of names etc are up for grabs also.

When it comes to government, nothing is a simple black and white choice. Everything has ramifications.

 

[Quickstatus]

Vaccinations for those with autoimmune diseases or immunocompromised is a very interesting topic.
No point me regurgitating the issue


Here is a very good link:

http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/5BCA1A72B6626C81CA257D4D0021931E/$File/3-3-Special-requirements.pdf

 

[Pushka]

How do people with lupus then ward off or avoid getting vaccinated diseases like whooping cough, mumps and so on? Not saying you're wrong and what not, I am curious (spoken as someone who has had all their vaccine shots without side effects).

If vaccines are not practicable to achieve the aims it's set to achieve, then what are the alternatives, save for treating all cases of these diseases as they happen?

Auto immune diseases, the mother of all being Lupus, occur when the immune system attacks ones own body and not the invaders it's meant to. Anything and everything in the human body can be a target. It's why it's so complicated to diagnose. My niece and I present with very different symptoms although we both have joint issues. Treatment is aimed at calming the immune system. So live immunisations - like shingles - are out but apparently they are testing a non live version. A complicating issue is that lupus people are more prone to getting shingles and anything to do with that virus. The flu shot and others are ok to have.

 

[Pushka]

Vaccinations for those with autoimmune diseases or immunocompromised is a very interesting topic.
No point me regurgitating the issue


Here is a very good link:

http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/5BCA1A72B6626C81CA257D4D0021931E/$File/3-3-Special-requirements.pdf

Great link. Thankyou!

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Simple - people deny the science is convincing or absolute. There are many reasons for this, and to many who are of a scientific school of thought, none of them seem rational.

I'm not even referring solely to the fraudulent autism study that argued against vaccines. There are people on this forum who think science (not just vaccine science) is a crock, and you have no right to invalidate that assertion.

Vaccine science is not the only field where there can't be agreement because "science". Anthropogenic climate change is another.



How do people with lupus then ward off or avoid getting vaccinated diseases like whooping cough, mumps and so on? Not saying you're wrong and what not, I am curious (spoken as someone who has had all their vaccine shots without side effects).

If vaccines are not practicable to achieve the aims it's set to achieve, then what are the alternatives, save for treating all cases of these diseases as they happen?

Answered in the medical thread.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

More damage is done when a single power (aka government) dictates what everyone does - that guiding them with options to make an informed choice.

I dunno if that holds true for everything though? Seat belts in cars? Workplace safety? Speed limits? Drug use while driving? Drink driving?

The issue is that some people can't process options, and can't make informed choices (look at the number of people still caught drink driving).

 

[Quickstatus]

Auto immune diseases, the mother of all being Lupus, occur when the immune system attacks ones own body and not the invaders it's meant to. Anything and everything in the human body can be a target. It's why it's so complicated to diagnose. My niece and I present with very different symptoms although we both have joint issues. Treatment is aimed at calming the immune system. So live immunisations - like shingles - are out but apparently they are testing a non live version. A complicating issue is that lupus people are more prone to getting shingles and anything to do with that virus. The flu shot and others are ok to have.

in a nutshell giving someone whose immune system is "trigger happy" can be problematic because it may cause the immune system to be "activated"

But on the other hand same people are usually on immunosupression to "calm" the immune system making them prone to infections.

Live vaccines (though attenuated so it can't cause an actual infection) can be more immunogenic than an inactivated one.

The several types of vaccines are:

live attenuated
inactivated
inactivated bacterial toxins
genetically engineered

Can anyone name an inactivated bacterial toxin used as a vaccine? and a genetically engineered vaccine?

 

[Pushka]

Lupus is difficult to diagnose.
yes GP can prescribe them but its the initiation of the first prescription that requires specialist consideration/input.

Thanks. That explains why my GP was desperate to get the report from the specialist. Specialist prescribes the plaquenil and GP the other stuff.

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I dunno if that holds true for everything though? Seat belts in cars? Workplace safety? Speed limits? Drug use while driving? Drink driving?

The issue is that some people can't process options, and can't make informed choices (look at the number of people still caught drink driving).

But all those impact on other people. I guess the argument about not vaccinating is that only the individual is harmed. I know there is the discussion that vaccination also adds to community resistance but if you were strongly opposed for whatever reason, to vaccination I'm pretty sure you wouldn't do it because it served the community.

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

My niece and I can't have live vaccines due to lupus. Compulsory vaccination is an issue.

This is why herd immunity is important for the few.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

This is why herd immunity is important for the few.

The whole point of mass vaccination is the development of herd immunity. When there is herd immunity there is much less risk of infection for those who can't be immunised and sadly also for those who won't

Antivaxxers are protected (though to a reducing degree) by herd immunity but attribute the lack of infection to their own loopy ideas.


.....


Anyway can medical stuff be moved to the medical thread please

 

[Flying mermaid]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

The whole point of mass vaccination is the development of herd immunity. When there is herd immunity there is much less risk of infection for those who can't be immunised and sadly also for those who won't

Antivaxxers are protected (though to a reducing degree) by herd immunity but attribute the lack of infection to their own loopy ideas.


.....


Anyway can medical stuff be moved to the medical thread please

is this a medical discussion, or a life choice discussion - I see it as much more the latter....

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Opinions differ thats why mine is a request.

 

[Quickstatus]

Good medicine should be a collaboration between patient and the medics and also between medics. Good medics know there is always another medic who knows more and sometimes seeking advice is a good idea.

GP can do plaquenil repeat scripts but will generally leave dose modification of the 'heavy duty' stuff to the specialist

 

[JohnK]

Wasnt John's daughter born in another country? Maybe not automatic?

From what I can see Vitamin K injections are done in Thailand at time of birth and doctors may not even seek consent.

Vaccinations for those with autoimmune diseases or immunocompromised is a very interesting topic.
No point me regurgitating the issue

I can't read article now but I have been having influenza vaccine since 1999, pneumonia vaccibe recently and should probably need shingles as well at some point.

I think I need to consider measles, mumps vaccines as my daughter is growing up.

Also need to consider my Tetanus/Diptheria/Pertussis booster as it is now 13 years since last booster.

I know there may well be some risks getting vaccinations but my preference is to get vaccinated to reduce the risk of being infected.

 

[Quickstatus]

From what I can see Vitamin K injections are done in Thailand at time of birth and doctors may not even seek consent.

Thailand gives VitK to newborns.

Oral VitK can be used but the problem is that several doses need to be given - usually 1 dose at birth, one dose 10 days later and another dose at 6 weeks.
You can see why a single IM injection at birth is an "easy give once and forget".

Not enough VitK if exclusively breastfeeding.


This is an abstract from an article relating to the issue in Thailand: