Gold status, got bumped from flight to Bangkok. Colleagues who are Bronze status / not even QFF members are still on flight.

[Mattg]

Hi all, thanks for the lively discussion and advice.

I spoke to a supervisor at the service desk in Melbourne. It turns out they had an aircraft change and had fewer seats available. As a result at least 10 people connecting to QF23 from Melbourne got bumped because there was this Jetstar flight.

A lot of the frustration would’ve been solved with clearer communication up front. I’m now on board the JQ flight surrounded by screaming children.

I was told to pursue some sort of recompense via Qantas customer care. Will see what they come up with.

IMHO, Qantas should be able to tell you upfront (ideally in writing) what compensation will be provided for the downgrade to a budget airline and the inconvenience, as well as arriving 3.5 hours late at the destination.

I suspect what will happen, instead, is that Qantas Customer Care will respond to you in 1-2 months to say that as an equivalent alternative flight was provided and "accepted", no compensation is owed. They might throw in 2,500 points as a "gesture of goodwill", but I don't think that's enough.

We really need mandated compensation in Australia for cases where airlines bump passengers like this for reasons within their control. If you were flying in Europe, the airline may owe you €300-600 in this scenario.

 

[sww199]

They might throw in 2,500 points as a "gesture of goodwill", but I don't think that's enough.

For reference
4 months ago I booked to fly next month ASP-MEL. J award seat with QF.
Last month QF cancelled the ASP-MEL service on Sundays due to 'operational reasons', rerouting me ASP-SYD-MEL, still in J. While not ideal as it effectively doubles my time on the road, not the worst outcome.
I complained using the online form and received 10k points as compensation. So in the OP's case, I would aim for even more points as compensation given the more significant inconvenience and downgrade.

 

[muppet]

IMHO, Qantas should be able to tell you upfront (ideally in writing) what compensation will be provided for the downgrade to a budget airline and the inconvenience, as well as arriving 3.5 hours late at the destination.

I suspect what will happen, instead, is that Qantas Customer Care will respond to you in 1-2 months to say that as an equivalent alternative flight was provided and "accepted", no compensation is owed. They might throw in 2,500 points as a "gesture of goodwill", but I don't think that's enough.

We really need mandated compensation in Australia for cases where airlines bump passengers like this for reasons within their control. If you were flying in Europe, the airline may owe you €300-600 in this scenario.

Minimum should be fare difference plus compensation for being moved to a low cost carrier. Classic bait and switch by selling QF and moving someone to JQ (even if it was due to unforeseen events).

 

[Happy Dude]

Don't forget to ask for the Original Route Credits too @huge.k. If you're still keen to maintain QF status, that is.

 

[drron]

You really think they would initiate an aircraft swap because they hadn't sold about 15 seats? C'mon.

10 'overbooked' in MEL.

EBV has 224 Y seats
The original a/c probably had 243 Y seats or if the A333, then 269 seats.
@jb747 can maybe explain a bit more.

Yes I do because it has happened to me on a flight to LST. QF canceled and switched JQ. I spoke to was upfront and told me it was the reason.

 

[dajop]

Don't forget to ask for the Original Route Credits too @huge.k. If you're still keen to maintain QF status, that is.

I doubt QF would rebook into JQ with a max bundle (they bl##dy well should though, it comes with 2 meals and 30kg of luggage, making to much closer to the QF offering) .... but if they did, and the OP was travelling discount economy fare on QF, the points earn on JQ MEL-BKK would be greater than on QF MEL-SYD-BKK.

TBH, QF should just automatically provide 2x meals + 2 x $15 vouchers on JQ (to cover beverages) and pay for IFE ($13) and amenities package, and that more or less brings JQ up to the QF standard, minus the emotional factor of and the colour scheme of the QF, I personally find the in flight experience differential nowhere near as dramatic as many make out.

Also as a SG, I'd compensate myself by stocking up on beverages and some food in the J lounge before the JQ flight

Other than that do QF routinely compensate for 3.5 hrs delays? Not uncommon on QFi to have lengthy delays ...

 

[Damian W]

As a result at least 10 people connecting to QF23 from Melbourne got bumped because there was this Jetstar flight.

Disapointing to hear that this was the process QF Ops used to fix the oversale instead of going through the proper way and using the PVC list. I know you had to get to BKK, but I would have immediatly asked MEL Sales to route me back through SYD or on an alternaitve full-service airline. JQ shouldn't be used by QF for disrupts and oversales - it's not a comparable airline.

 

[RichardMEL]

"they" probably saw it as a "enhancement" (ahem).. or raher the best option to get those folks to BKK on a direct flight vs a connection (I get it arrived 3+ hours later). A Y seat is a Y seat right? Yeah, guess they've not had too much time in the JQ 787 Y cabin with 335 seats.... but anyway I'm sure this was all an algorithm as much as anything else based on O&D and "optimised" routings to get the pax there within a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Mattg]

Other than that do QF routinely compensate for 3.5 hrs delays? Not uncommon on QFi to have lengthy delays ...

No, Qantas does not routinely compensate for 3.5 hour delays. But IMHO the main issue here is that the OP paid a premium for Qantas and got forcibly put onto Jetstar instead. The products are not comparable.

The communication from Qantas here has also been very poor.

 

[encryptededdy]

The Original aircraft scheduled was an A333, so a loss of 45 Y seats.. Per FlightStats, it looks like Qantas had some fun changing the filed aircraft type 333 -> 332 -> 333 -> 332 the night before.

 

[jrfsp]

I doubt QF would rebook into JQ with a max bundle (they bl##dy well should though, it comes with 2 meals and 30kg of luggage, making to much closer to the QF offering) .... but if they did, and the OP was travelling discount economy fare on QF, the points earn on JQ MEL-BKK would be greater than on QF MEL-SYD-BKK.

TBH, QF should just automatically provide 2x meals + 2 x $15 vouchers on JQ (to cover beverages) and pay for IFE ($13) and amenities package, and that more or less brings JQ up to the QF standard, minus the emotional factor of and the colour scheme of the QF, I personally find the in flight experience differential nowhere near as dramatic as many make out.

Also as a SG, I'd compensate myself by stocking up on beverages and some food in the J lounge before the JQ flight

Other than that do QF routinely compensate for 3.5 hrs delays? Not uncommon on QFi to have lengthy delays ...

QF have rebooked me before onto JQ after a missed connection - and yes it was booked as a Max bundle

 

[JohnK]

To those that say it does not matter arriving late as long as you get to destination. It does matter and is extremely important and can be costly

- we book connecting flights. With QF23 arriving around 4:00pm one would be safe to assume that we should make an 8:30pm-9:00pm domestic connection easily? With 3.5 hour delay that's very questionable and that's assuming that JQ is on time so now we're looking at hotel for the night and next days plans up in the air
- we book private taxis and 3.5 hour delay is very significant. We book through a 3rd party and may not be able to get in touch with allocated driver
- we book hire cars. With some hire car companies if you're late you forfeit your reservation. See if you can get an 8-10 day hire car at walk up rates to match the one booked months in advance. Also many offices close around 7:00pm and you need to sacrifice an arm and a leg to get them to come out and give you a hire car

There are already enough issues in travelling without having an airline adding to them. We can't leave a day either side of planned flights just in case. We can't book everything as flexible just in case.

Airlines need to understand and accept they cannot downgrade. I'd you're going to inconvenience someone then upgrade them and airline needs to be out of pocket not the customer.

 

[dajop]

QF have rebooked me before onto JQ after a missed connection - and yes it was booked as a Max bundle

Well that's a good thing. If OP was in discounted economy, then definitely wouldn't suggest requesting Original Routing Credit, if the JQ flight credits correctly.

 

[jb747]

Selling dodgy seats is something that harks back to the upper levels of the company. Aircraft swaps on a day to day basis are done by the people at the coal face, and they don't have any of the stupid agendas held by management.

Not everything is a conspiracy.

 

[Danger]

I would expect at a minimum Qantas is on the hook for providing cash compensation for the involuntary denied boarding along with reimbursement for any out of pocket expenses incurred (e.g. hotels, lost wages, etc.) the latter is covered by the Montreal Convention and the former is covered by the Australian Consumer Guarantee.

As for rerouting that’s an option. I’d open up google flights and find an alternate flight that is suitable for you and have QF book it. If they push back ask them who it was that bumped them off the flight.

-RooFlyer88

I'm curious: Which article of the Montreal Convention covers "lost wages"?

Well it's not up to Qantas to decide. These are international treaties they are obligated to follow to have the privilege of providing international service. The Montreal Convention makes it clear that these aren't optional things they can offer, it is an obligation. And it would be hard for Qantas to make the argument that denied boarding was an issue outside of their control since **checks notes** Qantas is responsible for selling tickets for that flight.

-RooFlyer88

I think you misunderstand (among other things) "denied boarding".

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well it's not up to Qantas to decide. These are international treaties they are obligated to follow to have the privilege of providing international service. The Montreal Convention makes it clear that these aren't optional things they can offer, it is an obligation. And it would be hard for Qantas to make the argument that denied boarding was an issue outside of their control since **checks notes** Qantas is responsible for selling tickets for that flight.

-RooFlyer88

The issue is enforcement.

If it was easy or cost-effective to do so people wouldn’t need EU261 or any of the similar schemes in other countries.

Unfortunately it’s likely to be a very expensive route going under Montreal.

 

[moa999]

Disapointing to hear that this was the process QF Ops used to fix the oversale instead of going through the proper way and using the PVC list.

QF ops seemingly did what's best for all passengers in this instance.
10 pax from MEL suffered a delay of 3hrs but got a direct flight (and presumably more time in the Lounge if they had access).

But had they flown the pax to SYD, then quite possibly 10 pax would have been bumped, maybe until the next day, maybe got a flight to SIN, an overnight then 3K flight the next morning.

Note if Australia had EU261 they'd probably be doing the same thing, because minimising overall delays minimises penalties (with penalties changing at 4 hrs for longer international flights)

 

[huge.k]

Got a rapid but unsatisfactory response from Qantas Customer Care. See below.

Dear Hugh,


Thank you for contacting Qantas Customer Care about your disrupted journey from Sydney to Bangkok on 24 October 2023.

While we do understand the impact that our schedule change had on your plans, flight changes are a regular occurrence in all airline operations. In the event of a significant time change, we will always offer to re-book you to the next available flight (or combination of flights) at no additional cost, or we can arrange a refund of your fare if you no longer wish to travel.

We know the importance of regular, clear announcements in situations like this, so I regret our airport team did not manage this as well as expected. We are committed to improving our -airport/onboard- communication when unforeseen issues occur and feedback about the way they are handled plays a vital role in developing this aspect of our service. We are grateful you let us know what happened

We sincerely regret this delay meant you missed your important welcome and introduction event caused by the canceled flight, in addition, it was concerning for us to hear about your experience with our staff in our Contact Centre. You should receive professional, courteous, and helpful service from all of our team and I am disappointed to learn about the attitude of the team member you encountered there.

I would like to assure you that your experience was not the service we strive to deliver. So that we can learn from your feedback, I have forwarded a copy of your experience to our Relevant Team. Your comments will be used to improve the performance of the staff concerned.

Furthermore, we regret not to accommodate the 300 status credits or the upgrade to business for your return trip from Singapore as an acknowledgment, Hence As a gesture of goodwill, I have credited 10,000 Qantas Points to your Frequent Flyer account. You can use the points towards flights, the purchase of food and wine through Qantas Wine, or a range of products from our online Qantas Store.

I understand this may not be the outcome you were hoping for and do apologise for the inconvenience caused.


Kind Regards,

Jane
Qantas Customer Care Team

 

[A321]

Wow. Pay QF get JQ, and they easily know they can get away with it.

 

[astrosly]

You asked for 300 status credits in compensation? I am not surprised that was knocked back.