Grammar Discussions

[anat0l]

'S to indicate plural is incorrect. This is my purist view that is supported by many linguists. It is widely used though and it is due to the fact that punctuation rules were never taught properly to those newspaper editors that like using A's (meaning several As) and in the 70's (meaning in the years 1970s). It might look better for their trained eye but would cause a few nasty cain strokes in an expensive British public school.

I think we are going too deep here, these intricacies are way too complex for an FF geeks forum even if we've all been enjoying the discussion immensely-

So how would you make the plural of the underlined nouns in the following sentence:

Remember to dot your i and cross your t.

In printed script, you can avoid the apostrophe by using italics on the noun. In unformatted situations or handwriting, it gets a bit more confusing.

 

[TheEmu]

'S to indicate plural is incorrect. This is my purist view that is supported by many linguists. It is widely used though and it is due to the fact that punctuation rules were never taught properly to those newspaper editors that like using A's (meaning several As) and in the 70's (meaning in the years 1970s). It might look better for their trained eye but would cause a few nasty cain strokes in an expensive British public school.

I think we are going too deep here, these intricacies are way too complex for an FF geeks forum even if we've all been enjoying the discussion immensely-

...or even a few nasty strokes of the cane...

 

[sergeyvzn]

So how would you make the plural of the underlined nouns in the following sentence:

Remember to dot you i and cross your t.

In printed script, you can avoid the apostrophe by using italics on the noun. In unformatted situations or handwriting, it gets a bit more confusing.

I'd cringe but accept this. Generally, it's acceptable to use an apostrophe to make a plural of single letters especially in idioms like that phrase and single numbers but should not be encourage

I.e. Cross your i's (or sometimes you can see this variant - cross your 'I's

Or get all your 7's

It's an exception that confirms the rule of no apostrophe for other plurals including plural numbers i.e. 90s, not 90's

Look, grammar is not maths. It's not like if 2+2=4 that's it, it can't be 5. A language is a living, changing thing. Give it another 20 years or so and the majority of linguists may accept apostrophes for the plural of any noun - it may or may not happen. There's no final authority, opinions differ and there are different schools of thought on pretty much everything

But that's the beauty of it, it makes languages interesting and thrilling.

My first language is Russian, I'm good at English, French and Spanish and can still go by in Finnish and German but I can't tell you I know all grammar rules in all these languages including my mother tongue but I do know quite a bit about them and the main thing I know is that these rules are not fixed for once and for all

 

[sergeyvzn]

...or even a few nasty strokes of the cane...

I've just caned mysel -

 

[anat0l]

I'd cringe but accept this. Generally, it's acceptable to use an apostrophe to make a plural of single letters especially in idioms like that phrase and single numbers but should not be encourage

I.e. Cross your i's (or sometimes you can see this variant - cross your 'I's

Or get all your 7's

It's an exception that confirms the rule of no apostrophe for other plurals including plural numbers i.e. 90s, not 90's

I know - I think I was more yanking your chain

Lowercase letters are probably the only exception I can think of, e.g. There are two s's in 'missed'. I don't make the plural of numbers with an apostrophe, e.g. Her semester report consisted of two 7s and two 6s. You could spell them out but I think that's coughbersome and compromises the context in some cases (but in other cases where it is proper to spell out the number than use numerals, fair enough).

Same thing with referring to date periods, e.g. The '70s was a groovy time.

 

[TheEmu]

I'd cringe but accept this. Generally, it's acceptable to use an apostrophe to make a plural of single letters especially in idioms like that phrase and single numbers but should not be encourage

I.e. Cross your i's (or sometimes you can see this variant - cross your 'I's

Or get all your 7's

It's an exception that confirms the rule of no apostrophe for other plurals including plural numbers i.e. 90s, not 90's

Look, grammar is not maths. It's not like if 2+2=4 that's it, it can't be 5. A language is a living, changing thing. Give it another 20 years or so and the majority of linguists may accept apostrophes for the plural of any noun - it may or may not happen. There's no final authority, opinions differ and there are different schools of thought on pretty much everything

But that's the beauty of it, it makes languages interesting and thrilling.

My first language is Russian, I'm good at English, French and Spanish and can still go by in Finnish and German but I can't tell you I know all grammar rules in all these languages including my mother tongue but I do know quite a bit about them and the main thing I know is that these rules are not fixed for once and for all

I've just caned mysel -

Well a little self-flagellation never hurt anyone...else!
While we're at it sergeyvzn, we generally dot the "i". It's the "t" we cross. (See how I did that? )
Seriously though, I have the utmost respect for you multi-lingual folk - I struggle with school-boy level French and get-me-home-taxi-Mandarin.
A Russian friend here in NKG (a genuine Russian rocket scientist!) has tried to teach me some basic greetings, etc. in Russian - wow - tough language. Harder than Chinese!

 

[sergeyvzn]

Well a little self-flagellation never hurt anyone...else!
While we're at it sergeyvzn, we generally dot the "i". It's the "t" we cross. (See how I did that? )
Seriously though, I have the utmost respect for you multi-lingual folk - I struggle with school-boy level French and get-me-home-taxi-Mandarin.
A Russian friend here in NKG (a genuine Russian rocket scientist!) has tried to teach me some basic greetings, etc. in Russian - wow - tough language. Harder than Chinese!

Thank you
Languages have always been a passion of mine. Almost as strong as redeeming USDMs - and you see - I didn't use an apostrophe

 

[JessicaTam]

I am so glad to see that this thread has degenerated to the level of pedantism that it deserves.

 

[medhead]

Funny enough, in connection, I never understood what the infinitive was until I started learning French. It was only then that I also understood the old advice, "Never split the infinitive"... which is ironic now as it is often broken anyway, but not deliberately as it is clear that doing it all the time would largely be awkward.

We can blame the Trekkies for such common usage. I managed to learn about infinitives due to the song Star Trekkin'. My best friend's mum (a English/humanities teacher) had a good laugh at the line about boldly splitting infinitives that no ones split before. That prompted a question by me and an explanation.

Other than that I had the best education Sir Joh could buy.

 

[Danger]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

The BA Galleries First lounge menu at LHR T5:

 

[JessicaTam]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Tsk, tsk. They really should know better.

 

[sergeyvzn]

What if they had to go outside and buy it for you? -

 

[cove]

I just wanted to be the 913th poster.
Now I have looked up a word or two that I have never used and I will be very careful with apostrophe usage.

 

[JohnM]

Be afraid, very afraid...

 

[get me outta here]

I do love this cartoon, its been on my frig' for about 2 years.

Be afraid, very afraid...

View attachment 40079

 

[Jousams]

Dis. topic. is. stoopid!

 

[medhead]

Innit but...

 

[JessicaTam]

Aaaaaaaagggghhhhhh!

 

[anat0l]

Aaaaaaaagggghhhhhh!

Where's the 'r'? Did you lose your tongue? :mrgreen:

 

[JessicaTam]

Where's the 'r'? Did you lose your tongue? :mrgreen:

Aaaaaaaa'gggghhhhhh!