Grammar Discussions

[JohnK]

Nah, I can see the 'white out'.

I only noticed that after you pointed it out.

All those conspiracy theories I believe in such as the moon landing hoax could also be easily faked?

 

[Julesmac]

In a different survey 83% of respondents indicated they don't want to be just another statistic.

...and then there's the troublesome 3%

 

[Warks]

I just read this in The Guardian about the UK election. While the maths is correct (I think, I didn't use a calculator to check) it makes a small increase sound much bigger.

Drawing on data from the UCL/Birkbeck Parliamentary Candidates UK project, non-white MPs now make up more than 6% of the new parliament, up from 4.2% in 2010 – a 56% increase.

I'm also sure some candidates increased their vote by 100% from the last election - getting two votes instead of one.

 

[anat0l]

I just read this in The Guardian about the UK election. While the maths is correct (I think, I didn't use a calculator to check) it makes a small increase sound much bigger.

Drawing on data from the UCL/Birkbeck Parliamentary Candidates UK project, non-white MPs now make up more than 6% of the new parliament, up from 4.2% in 2010 – a 56% increase.

I'm also sure some candidates increased their vote by 100% from the last election - getting two votes instead of one.

The way I read the phrase, the maths would appear to be correct, i.e. 4.2 percent * 1.56 (representing a 56% increase) gives 6.6%.

The rounding is a bit rough in the quoted section. 6.6% rounded to an integer would be more like 7%, but I guess that "more than six" sounds a bit more 'realistic' than "just under seven". But if they had quoted 4.2% in the same sentence, what's wrong with giving 6.6%? (For the physicists and so on here, let's not get into the whole significant figures thing)

For sure, percentages can make some small absolute differences sound like a huge thing, as you have exemplified. That's usually why unless large datasets are involved (and even then), it is better to look at the numbers rather than necessarily percentages.

 

[medhead]

Rounding and significant figures don't come into it. There is a non-specific phrase involved - "More than 6%". That's not "scientific" reporting of a result. It could just as easily, and validly, been more than 5%. It could also have been "almost", or "just under" 7%. But I assume that would tend to diminish the biased message the reporter is trying to present.

Agreed that having quoted 4.2% they should have just used "increased to 6.6%".

 

[Deleted member]

Now for something completely different.

 

[cove]

Then there is the use of then and than and quiet and quite for the grammar impaired. Not quite a Cat cough Trophy but can get close.

 

[JessicaTam]

What is it with the use of 'myself' recently?

This week I have had 3 or 4 cases of "please contact myself for further information" or the like!

FGS. :shock:

Oh, and don't get me started on "let me know if it suites you".

 

[anat0l]

Alright, need to settle this one.

We all know that the following sentence is OK:

I asked John to take me to the airport.

We wouldn't say:

I asked John to take I to the airport.

Now, which of the following is correct?

I asked John to take Patty and I to the airport.

I asked John to take Patty and me to the airport.

If we change the principal subject ("I") to something else, say third person ("Ken"), this shouldn't change the answer, right?

 

[codash1099]

Alright, need to settle this one.

We all know that the following sentence is OK:

I asked John to take me to the airport.

We wouldn't say:

I asked John to take I to the airport.

Now, which of the following is correct?

I asked John to take Patty and I to the airport.

I asked John to take Patty and me to the airport.

If we change the principal subject ("I") to something else, say third person ("Ken"), this shouldn't change the answer, right?

The second one is correct. Leave Patty out of it (never liked her!). "I asked John to take me to the airport" gives you the clue. And yes, adding Ken doesn't change it.

 

[andye]

I have an aversion to 'alright' (as opposed to 'all right') but I understand it's considered acceptable and criticising is overpedantic

 

[cove]

In our family we say everything is O R which of course is derived from Or Right just to get into the swing of things.

 

[Deleted member]

Low and behold !!
Arrggghh

 

[Warks]

One I can never forget was a reader comment on a news story from the last Olympics:

"The Aussie swim team are a bunch of pre-Madonnas".

 

[medhead]

Then there is the use of then and than and quiet and quite for the grammar impaired. Not quite a Cat cough Trophy but can get close.

I saw a then/than mix up from one of the regular contributors to this thread. Extremely hard to say nothing. But nothing was said, not less because I get them wrong regularly.

 

[andye]

....

We all know that the following sentence is OK:

I asked John to take me to the airport.

We wouldn't say:

I asked John to take I to the airport.

Now, which of the following is correct?

I asked John to take Patty and I to the airport.

I asked John to take Patty and me to the airport.

If we change the principal subject ("I") to something else, say third person ("Ken"), this shouldn't change the answer, right?

'I" is the form when the personal pronoun is the subject of a sentence (in Latin it would be in the nominative case) and 'me' when it is the object (Latin accusative case) or any of the other cases (dative: 'to me', ablative: 'by me') except the genitive when 'of me' is usually replaced with 'my'.

Same goes for He, him, his etc.

You is the same word whether subject or object, the form thou/thee having disappeared

 

[Deleted member]

'I" is the form when the personal pronoun is the subject of a sentence (in Latin it would be in the nominative case) and 'me' when it is the object (Latin accusative case) or any of the other cases (dative: 'to me', ablative: 'by me') except the genitive when 'of me' is usually replaced with 'my'.

Same goes for He, him, his etc.

You is the same word whether subject or object, the form thou/thee having disappeared

And then there is the more prevelant "Take Patty and Myself" I reckon "Myself / yourself" gets misused about 99 times out of 100

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have an aversion to 'alright' (as opposed to 'all right') but I understand it's considered acceptable and criticising is overpedantic

there is a line of though to suggest 'all right' and 'alright' have two distinct meanings, with the former meaning 'correct' and the latter meaning 'ok'

 

[anat0l]

there is a line of though to suggest 'all right' and 'alright' have two distinct meanings, with the former meaning 'correct' and the latter meaning 'ok'

Funny enough, I adopted this point of view, however this distinction is somewhat important in particular contexts, for example,

Maryjane took the test yesterday, and her answers were all right.

Clearly here, alright would be somewhat incorrect (that would take a rather skewed interpretation).

Of course, it would be a lot "clearer" to use the word correct in place of right in this context.

EDIT: So I've headed over to dictionary.com and it appears that alright is actually "all right" in adverbial form. It seems to be a 'contraction' based on other words like already or altogether. The full versions of such words are still used in some formal contexts.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Funny enough, I adopted this point of view, however this distinction is somewhat important in particular contexts, for example,

Maryjane took the test yesterday, and her answers were all right.

Clearly here, alright would be somewhat incorrect (that would take a rather skewed interpretation).

Of course, it would be a lot "clearer" to use the word correct in place of right in this context.

EDIT: So I've headed over to dictionary.com and it appears that alright is actually "all right" in adverbial form. It seems to be a 'contraction' based on other words like already or altogether. The full versions of such words are still used in some formal contexts.

'How'd you go on the test yesterday Maryjane?'

'I was stoned, but I think I did alright bro'

(Maryjane seems to be from Nieuw Zulland for the purposes of this example)