Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel flight

[N860CR]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

I am really surprised that you got this from QF! If it was JQ I would not be surprised......

It shocked me as well. Worst part was the two people I spoke to on the day and customer care later on seemed shocked that I thought they hadn't done enough! They said to me "it's fine, you can go tomorrow" and seemed surprised when I said that wouldn't work. I was leaving that night and flying straight back the next afternoon following a meeting. I thought customer care would have at least thrown a gift voucher at me... but the woman there couldn't have cared less if she tried.

It changed my views a bit... when things go wrong, they're all as bad as each other, be it TT/JQ or QF

 

[hawthorn2008]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

Latest Update:

After 10 days, I finally received a call from JQ.

The JQ customer service representative officer, 'after reviewing the case' offered to repay the VA airfare and provide a $50 coupon.

When I pushed them for a written apology, she simply stated "I sincerely apologize now but if you really want a written one I could do that". However, I was left with the distinct feeling that despite promises that they "could" write an apology, it seemed like it was too much like hard work. Post conversation, I will not hold my breath for a written apology. I would rather learn my lesson and do my best to avoid flying them unless no other choice exists.

Thanks again to the good folk on this site for your help.

 

[mannej]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

You should count yourself lucky.

Most people dream of such a quick response with JQ customer service, let alone a solution!

 

[docjames]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

Now to wait and see how long until the money arrives. JQ not known for their urgency in this....

 

[eastwest101]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

Latest Update:

The JQ customer service representative officer, 'after reviewing the case' offered to repay the VA airfare and provide a $50 coupon.

When I pushed them for a written apology...

That is actually a pretty fair compensation by JQ. I think the lesson learned from that is that the OP may have kicked up a big ruckus on numerous forums and different social media that prompted a quick and good response from JQ. The apology may never happen but by refunding the OP's VA fare I think that's as close as you will ever get to JQ admitting a mistake on their part.

I would be interested if the OP has any opinions about what they thought contributed to this unusually fast and fair response from JQ? That is - if they have a feeling about what worked and what didn't.

 

[Moopere]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

I suspect a combination of this:

Nothing on the JQ front, but I am taking the advice and pursuing the chargeback route

and complaining here. The QFF Rep here is usually on top of whats going on even if there isn't a lot of posting activity from them.

[edit: corrected an oops]

 

[cmon0005]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

A friend of mine had flew down from Gold Coast to MEL on a Sat and return on a Sun earlier this year.

Their flight back to Gold Coast was 17:45 flight. about 2 hours before hand they had got a SMS that the flight is cancelled she called "recovery operations", and said only flight available was Monday morning 7am I think.
Although I could clearly see seats available on the 19:30 on J* website, my friend asked them why she can't get on that later flight as there was still plenty of time (4 1/2 hours away), the J* rep said if you want to get on the 19:30 flight you will have to pay extra fare, my friend told them to politely get stuffed.
She then asked can you put me on a QF flight tonight to Brisbane instead, got the response "we don't do bookings on QF sorry you'll have to book it yourself".
In the end my friend just went with the option of the next morning flight.

This is the exact reason why I have only ever flown J* a handful of times!

 

[eastwest101]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

A friend of mine had flew down from Gold Coast to MEL on a Sat and return on a Sun earlier this year.

Their flight back to Gold Coast was 17:45 flight. about 2 hours before hand they had got a SMS that the flight is cancelled she called "recovery operations", and said only flight available was Monday morning 7am I think.
Although I could clearly see seats available on the 19:30 on J* website, my friend asked them why she can't get on that later flight as there was still plenty of time (4 1/2 hours away), the J* rep said if you want to get on the 19:30 flight you will have to pay extra fare, my friend told them to politely get stuffed.
She then asked can you put me on a QF flight tonight to Brisbane instead, got the response "we don't do bookings on QF sorry you'll have to book it yourself".
In the end my friend just went with the option of the next morning flight.

This is the exact reason why I have only ever flown J* a handful of times!

Given this post - and the experience of the OP as well - maybe we can collaborate on a new "AFF Jetstar Cancellation Policy Response" - based on the assumption that the traveller wants to get to where they were planning with minimum of delay and cost.

Maybe:

Step Action
1. JQ email or txt that your given JQ flight is cancelled
2. If at airport or on way to airport - obviously see JQ ground staff to enquire if you can get on a later JQ or QF flight
3. If not at airport check for availibility and price of suitable JQ/QF flights to get you to your destination.
4. Use call centre to enquire about suitable replacement flight(s).
5. If "pushback" from call centre about replacement flights is encountered, clarify what alternatives JQ is offering you and get them to confirm that you have not been booked onto a suitable JQ or QF flight. Note operator time and date.
6. Accept JQ credit shell or refund
7. Ask for email/txt verification of your decision from JQ
8. Buy a suitable flight from QF/VA or whomever will get you to your destination.
9. Go to airport
10. Check with JQ ground staff that your flight was indeed cancelled and you were not booked on a replacement JQ/QF flight
11. Travel on replacement flight.
12. Commence full charge-back procedures with your bank or credit card issuer for JQ fare
13. Flood all social media and message boards with negative experiences of JQ service
14. Await solution and possible compensation from JQ



Feel free to add comments or change extra steps in there that I may have forgotten. Its a work in progress!

 

[RAM]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

Jetstar gives lcc a bad name indeed.

A few years back I booked 5 Syd/Launceston on the early afternoon flight, long stay parking etc for our family so we would take our kids overseas without going overseas. There was a problem with the Jetstar web site so I rang through and after some "discussion" they booked it at the Internet price. They tried to push the later day departures both on the outward & inward flights but I said no. I wanted the kids to see us leaving the mainland, crossing Bass Strait (for Syd-Hobart yacht knowledge) as well as seeing that Southern large island.

I booked about 5 months in advance.

Then the Deathstar process commenced. I received close to a dozen "Your itinerary has been altered" emails. The afternoon flight mysteriously moved nearer and nearer to the evening flight (both ways - what a coincidence) before finally being cancelled and they automatically changing us to that foreshadowed evening flight.

I rang to discuss this. I pointed out that the main purpose for the flights had been thwarted by their actions -so no, being on the evening flight (In July) was not any good and I wanted a refund.

JQ - No, you are still travelling on the same days.
RAM - No, the whole point was to see the route.
JQ - You still can.
RAM - No, it will be dark, sunset is over 90 minutes before the flight leaves the mainland (from memory).
several dozen returns of service later
RAM - Can I please speak with your team leader or supervisor.
JQ - THEY WILL JUST TELL YOU THE SAME AS I HAVE.
RAM - Thank you for warning me but I would still like to speak with them.
JQ - They are unavailable.
RAM - I am happy to wait xx_xx_x (I always write down the name and get them to spell it for good measure. Calls don't seem to drop out anywhere near as often that way).
Glorious musical interlude later, well Jetstar ad music really but it is slightly better than the chime music of the 1990s.

JQ2 - I understand you no longer want to fly to Tasmania.
RAM - No, we want to fly to Launceston in the daylight but you have cancelled the flight so we are unable to, so I want a refund for both the flights and long stay car park. By the way do you think it is acceptable for customers to be forced to spend over 25 minutes on the phone to sort out a cancelled flight? (I also always note the start time & date - you never know).
JQ2 - (Obviously an aspiring politician). So you want to cancel your flights.
RAM - No JQ cancelled the flight we booked and I want a full refund.
JQ2/RAM - 7 minutes more volleying over the net.
RAM - this is beyond a joke. When I finish this call I will be calling the Qantas Company Secretary (search ASX web site for Co Sec contact details).
JQ2 - Can I put you on hold for a moment.
RAM - Certainly. The joy of more uplifting adverts
JQ2 - As a once off we will offer you a refund for your flights.
RAM - and the long term parking booked in the same transaction.
JQ2 - Can I place you on hold for a moment.
RAM - Yes. The joy of more uplifting adverts
JQ2 - I have spoken with the call centre controller (was the closest I could get to the word said) and we will cancel the entire transaction.
RAM - How soon can I expect to see the reversal come through on my credit card.
JQ2 - It should take between 6-8 weeks (from memory).
RAM Unacceptable, it took less than 10 minutes to charge me, but I understand that is beyond your control but I will include your information in my report to the Qantas Company Secretary. One advantage of being put on hold is it gave me the time to type up our conversation this afternoon to ensure I did not leave any details out CCCCCC. I want to thank you for your efforts and hope that the past 68 minutes will help future customers after the Qantas executive team have seen my report.

R E S U L T S

Reversal on credit card went through 3 days later, no mistakes, no deductions & no correspondence.

Got a call back (day following message on their phone) from Co Sec PA - apologised and said would follow it up. Did not require my timeline doc (disappointed but I did mention names & times in phone message - senior Q exec phones take long messages).

Nearly a week later call back from Co Sec PA to let me know that full refund had been made and I should see it in next statement.

Some JQ staff most likely had a severe case of heartburn following my call.

Some higher up JQ staff hopefully could not sit down for a day or two following Co Sec's routine being interuppted.

Cost savings still made regardless subsequently B U T

Co Sec phone number still on ASX site (as per listing requirements) - ENJOY using it when needed.

 

[hawthorn2008]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

In my humble opinion, the only reason that they bothered to refund and give a 'verbal' apology, is due to the media pressure. The distribution of the facts via social media websites (and other media outlets) allowed people's power to lambast them for their behavior. No doubt, the swift offer from VA to provide a complimentary return tickets - to truly experience their service - placed even more pressure on JQ.

It is unfortunate that one has to expend so much effort in dealing with something that is just common sense. However, if you make time to expose those companies with tardy business ethics, people's power will be enough to kick them into touch. The good news with the internet, is that those same facts that forced them into action, will still be up for many years to come.

A stitch in time, saves nine!

That is actually a pretty fair compensation by JQ. I think the lesson learned from that is that the OP may have kicked up a big ruckus on numerous forums and different social media that prompted a quick and good response from JQ. The apology may never happen but by refunding the OP's VA fare I think that's as close as you will ever get to JQ admitting a mistake on their part.

I would be interested if the OP has any opinions about what they thought contributed to this unusually fast and fair response from JQ? That is - if they have a feeling about what worked and what didn't.

 

[Paddy55]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

While my personal policy is to avoid J* whenever possible, the trouble is that I do end up flying them not infrequently, as QF has handballed most flights out of Hobart to them and my schedules don't necessarily match Virgin's.

(Must be because Hobart is a 'holiday destination' like Cairns :mrgreen

 

[Moopere]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

Reversal on credit card went through 3 days later, no mistakes, no deductions & no correspondence.

Got a call back (day following message on their phone) from Co Sec PA - apologised and said would follow it up. Did not require my timeline doc (disappointed but I did mention names & times in phone message - senior Q exec phones take long messages).

Extremely good show! Really, most impressive. We could all learn a lot about not accepting any old dogfood that companies try to feed us.

Thanks for sharing this, its made my day.

 

[bnebased]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

All a bit of a scary story about JQ. Makes me think about my upcoming situation. I booked a cheapie JQ return BNE-DRW for May-Jun 2013. Long time ahead, but the price was right.

By accident I looked at the return date, 5 Jun 2013, and observe that JQ no longer appears to have a flight scheduled that day. However no peep from JQ about what looks to me like a cancellation. I chose that date because the departure time was acceptable, 6:40am versus 1:10am on some other days. The nearest JQ flights scheduled for 6:40am are 2 days earlier or later.

Any guesses as to when will JQ will tell me about the flight status? Any guesses as to which options they will give me? (I would be delighted to move to the QF flight that day; I don't want 1:10am; I don't want to move 2 days.)

For the time being I guess I will leave sleeping JQ alone. Any thoughts about how soon or late I should contact JQ about it (given that I still wish to fly)?

 

[docjames]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

All a bit of a scary story about JQ. Makes me think about my upcoming situation. I booked a cheapie JQ return BNE-DRW for May-Jun 2013. Long time ahead, but the price was right.

By accident I looked at the return date, 5 Jun 2013, and observe that JQ no longer appears to have a flight scheduled that day. However no peep from JQ about what looks to me like a cancellation. I chose that date because the departure time was acceptable, 6:40am versus 1:10am on some other days. The nearest JQ flights scheduled for 6:40am are 2 days earlier or later.

Any guesses as to when will JQ will tell me about the flight status? Any guesses as to which options they will give me? (I would be delighted to move to the QF flight that day; I don't want 1:10am; I don't want to move 2 days.)

For the time being I guess I will leave sleeping JQ alone. Any thoughts about how soon or late I should contact JQ about it (given that I still wish to fly)?

Note that JQ are sometimes slow to load forward flights or the forward flights drop in and out of the booking engines, so it's not a certainty it's been cancelled, but perhaps the flight just hasnt been loaded.


I wouldnt leave it too long in case your options reduce. Note it can also take some time to get JQ to sort things out (and multiple calls to the call centre).

 

[bnebased]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

... or the forward flights drop in and out of the booking engines, so it's not a certainty it's been cancelled, but perhaps the flight just hasnt been loaded.


I wouldnt leave it too long in case your options reduce. Note it can also take some time to get JQ to sort things out (and multiple calls to the call centre).

Clearly when I booked (in the June 2 for 1 sale) the flight was there. I observe that starting the day I am booked the JQ timetable has dropped WThSu flights for the visible future (ie, down to 4 flights per week). Perhaps a timetable update bug???

Having dealt with the JQ call centre before, I know what you mean (mind you it worked out fine in the end). Basically I would simply like to fly on the day I chose (plus or minus a day, perhaps). I also want to fly at a civilized time. Eg, if they try to put me on a 1:10am flight, I don't want that. I imagine I am within my rights in declining such a change, but the T&C aren't totally clear (surprise, surprise).

I will certainly wait at least a few months before I contact them.

How quickly do I have to reply if they get around to contacting me? QF changed a flight (BNE-DRW) due to a timetable change and nagged me to accept it. I just took my time to do so (only one hour, but less convenient). Nonstop DRW-BNE (and vv) is not blessed with much in the way of good choices.

 

[fersea]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

Really interesting thread and I am glad you got a (sort of) desired response in the end. However on the subject of LCC, this site is Australian FREQUENT flyers which presumably mean most posters on here fly reasonably often. My feeling on LCC is that even say if you did get nothing out of Jetstar and had to pay the full whack for VA on that occassion, you would still be much better off booking Jetstar every time and wearing the cost when one goes bad as opposed to paying full price every time with QF or VA?

What do other people think?

 

[Cynicor]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

It's not all about the cost, though. There's comfort issues, seat pitch, service, IFE, timing of flights, delays and cancelleations leading to inability to make connections, little interlining, poor connections.

Jetstar is not built for business travel, nor leisure travel where time is important. It is pretty much for travellers on a budget. And half the time they aren't even that cheap. I've seen them at a higher price than QF many times.

 

[harvyk]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

Really interesting thread and I am glad you got a (sort of) desired response in the end. However on the subject of LCC, this site is Australian FREQUENT flyers which presumably mean most posters on here fly reasonably often. My feeling on LCC is that even say if you did get nothing out of Jetstar and had to pay the full whack for VA on that occassion, you would still be much better off booking Jetstar every time and wearing the cost when one goes bad as opposed to paying full price every time with QF or VA?

What do other people think?

Agree sort of but not really...

Whilst yes, saving a dollar here and a dollar there adds up over the course of a year, for the frequent flyer, the amount of time your sitting in an aircraft and sitting around at airports forms a big part of your life. Sure, there is a novelty factor at first which means that you chalk up baggage costs, poor or no food, and airport bar prices up to the "experience of flying". But it doesn't take too long before the novelty wears off, and baggage costs become annoying, you really do want to eat something decent, and that airport bar looks like every other airport bar in the world, and costs about the same. Esp when you are doing unexciting things like CBR-MEL runs frequently which was what I was doing for a while there. Also as others have mentioned, whilst a once a year flyer might not care so much if they end up getting home a day late due to flight delays, for the frequent flyer that represents yet another day away from the family \ friends.

Basically it boils down to, "slumming it" is fun for a night, but it's no fun when it is your life.

 

[burmans]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

Not that I recommend it, but if you originally paid for your JQ ticket on a credit card you could call your bank to try to reverse the transaction (if possible) for services charged but not provided. There are a few other threads about this that you could search for, but you may find that JQ are a bit more responsive if you can get your money back off them that way. If you do this you may lose the right to fight to get the VA flights reimbursed, I assume that the VA flights were a lot more expensive than the original JQ flight?


Eventually someone with more experience in these matters will post something here about that.

I would recommend it, he's paid for a service that was not provided. He did try to resolve it but Jetstar wouldn't pay, that's a dispute and this sort of certainly exactly what a dispute procedure is there for.

 

[eastwest101]

Re: Guilty until Proven Innocent: The customer is always wrong when Jetstar cancel fl

Really interesting thread and I am glad you got a (sort of) desired response in the end. However on the subject of LCC, this site is Australian FREQUENT flyers which presumably mean most posters on here fly reasonably often. My feeling on LCC is that even say if you did get nothing out of Jetstar and had to pay the full whack for VA on that occassion, you would still be much better off booking Jetstar every time and wearing the cost when one goes bad as opposed to paying full price every time with QF or VA?

What do other people think?

I have some problems with that line of reasoning. In several instances in this thread the problem has been that JQ has no competition, sure people may fly JQ based on price but I argue whether you are going somewhere on business or on holiday then your time is valuable and having to overnight somewhere unexpectedly because JQ chose to cancel a flight simply because of low load factors is unnaceptable. Frequent flyers may often choose not to fly JQ - but if they do and are affected then they may be more aware of how to rectify or address problems with cancelled JQ flights. Some may choose to cop it on the chin - but others may have important meetings or onward connections with more expensive flights and will resort to various means to get to where they are needed.

Remember - even BFOD Corporate travel policies mean that the PAX may not actually be paying the fares - so may or may not care about delays but you can bet that someone in the organization does notice, and definately notices when large "last minute" fares are brought to cover for cheaper airlines failing to keep to their schedule.

I consider leisure travel no different - you only have to look at hotel room rates and cancellation charges associated with hotels, hire cars, tours, cruises and other flights to see that quite often - a self funded leisure traveller may have more at stake than some corporate flyers....

Obviously we can all accept that there are genuine operational changes to schedules (due to weather, aircraft going tech etc) no matter which airline you fly with. What I am interested in is that JQ may seem to think they can schedule and sell seats on flights to customers and then cancel some flights and push customers onto less suitable or next-day services. And yes I know that the strict readings of the T&C's of a lot of LCC's boils down to "we will get you from A to B at some point plus or minus a few days". But the T&C's cannot override or negate consumer law. I would argue that at the time of booking - if a flight and a seat is available for sale then the operator intends to carry the PAX to their destination as it is a scheduled service for sale to the public. If they don't intend to provide that service then that would open up the question of deceptive conduct.

Another point is notification of change of time/date of flights to affected PAX - or lack of. All customers hate "surprises" - and the more of a surprise it is, the more expensive and inconvenient the alternative plans can be. If these costs are worn by the customer then JQ may not care, if they are worn by JQ itself then you can bet that JQ will start to care.

This is where forums like this, other social media, on-time performance stats and the chargeback route and vigorous competition are really the only thing that keeps any business honest.

The other question is travel insurance - I would be interested to hear about peoples success rate in claiming costs for accomodation etc when JQ flights are "cancelled".