Has any QFF's switched over to Virgin, or may?

[Simo]

To me price is not the biggest consideration. When i need to be at my destination and best way to get the most out of my day when away.

I would rather pay a bit extra but have a later flight home so if a meeting runs over time or traffic problems getting to airport doesn't mean i have to pay for another ticket or what ever happens because of it.

 

[qantas38]

I'm just a plain old in the main domestic flyer with the occassional overseas biz trip. QF Silver & VA Bronze. I've got to watch the purse strings as instructed by the CFO so it's mainly red-e-deals for me. Even so I've always spent a little bit more for QF because of frequency, some far flung destinations only offered by QF & the Qantas pub.

Will I jump? Depends on VA's offering come 24/08. Probably not but I may give more biz to VA.

I do lots of SYD-BNE & SYD-MEL so 1000 points versus 5 points per $ on VA is far more attractive to me.
That I still have to pay extra for baggage on the VA equivalent of a red-e-deal (23kg) is irksome consider I get 32kg for being a QF FF Silver even on the heaviest discount flghts
That I have to pay for food & entertainment on VA is still with above a throwback to the LCC days.

In my experience VA also needs to be more reliable. I only fly with VA 6-10 times a year but the number of times they've been several hours late when I'm going up & back in a day therefore losing half a business day has really put me off them often. Maybe I'm unlucky but it seems to happen to me about 1 in 4 flights with over an hour delay. Rarely do I experience this on QF.

On the other hand besides the ever increasingly surly in flight staff on QF (don't get me wrong, plenty of them are great & some of the VA girls are brain dead & up themselves) the inflight food has become very spartan especially on the cityflyer flights. Other flights still are generally OK.

I remember reading the QF pub food was to be improved this year. Was that just for the tiny minority who can get into the biz lounge? Because the pub food is minimal at best in terms of desirable selection. Brisbane is the worst QF pub in AU especially for the last few flights of each day as they've often run out of most things & are hopeless at refilling the food offerings at anytime of the day. They're often completely out of newspapers from 5pm onwards. Just plain amateurs. The manager of this pub should be sacked! Darwin is pretty good though if you want to drink spirits. They almost insist you have a double shot alothough I hope they take note of the clients faculties first. The rest are failry consistent & I'm not sure there's many in Oz I've not visited over the last few years.

The IFE on QF is prehistoric. At least on VA I can watch Foxtel & get a choice of a variety of programs. However that I have to pay is stupid & annoying. If I have to pay make it an option upon booking so it's done & dusted. I'm older & larger than I once was & getting the wallet for the credit card swipe out of the back pocket is a trial when the seat next to me is occupied.

I can't understand the beef with the age of the 767 fleet. Many of you may not be aware that the 767 is still a production aircraft from Boeing. As long as QF keep them on time I've got no problem with them keeping them on line. I'd rather my usual window seat in a 767 than a 737 any day as most of the time I get an empty seat next to me if I allocate up the back. The main thing they need to do is refurbish them & keep them up to date. No one would have a clue of the age of the aircraft or would care less if QF did this. 2-3-2 seating is much more preferable to 737/A320 3-3. If Boeing goes ahead with a 2-3-2 737 replacement as has been mooted they're on a winner from a passenger point of view.

I don't know the economics of the cost of buying or flying an A320 versus a 737 from an airline point of view. I can only assume the 737 is a lot cheaper to buy & run therefore why QF & VA have 737's & Jetstar have the A320's. If I were the QF boss I'd swap the 737's to Jetstar & give the A320's to QF. From a passenger point of view the A320 offers seats just that little bit wider & much more comfortable that to me makes a huge difference in comfort ever since my first ride on an Ansett A320. Why the upcoming apparently more passenger friendly 787's are going to Jetstar first before QF is simply stupifying!

For me I'd guess Mr Borghetti is hamstrung by VA's finances but I feel does he have a good brain for service quality & is probably going to make the best of what's available to him. I do get the feeling he's more interested in customers & realises if customers are happier then the shareholders will be looked after as a result rather than the otherway around.

Mr Joyce, well he just doesn't get it & it's reallygoing to cost QF in the long run if he's not replaced with someone who's got afeel for the people he employs & serves quick smart! He should be farmedout to a LCC.He's probably not flown regular domestic or internationaleconomy in his life & looks to be a little fella anyway. Try being yournowadays average 90-100Kg 180-190cm tall aussie bloke & especially ifyou're now on the wrong side of 50 anything more than 120 minutes is far lesscomfortable than a few years ago.
Like most AU big businesses (the big end of town justdon't get it nowadays do they) the average punter even though they can't affordthe top end of offers from big-biz such as the pointy end will pay more forquality products & services & most importantly will show brand loyaltyif those features are consistently provided.
Mr Joyce thinks by constantly eroding the quality ofthese offerings to the VAST MAJORITY of QF's customers in favour of theshareholders at the expense of the customers he's doing both parties a greatdisservice. (I certainly don't begrudge those that can afford biz/1st class butlet's face it, more than 90% of QF customers sit in economy).
Yes Mr Joyceengineers & pilots are cheaper in Asia but they're of lesser quality &consistency. We pay more for the better service, a slightly better seat pitch, highersafety & most of all loyalty to probably the most famous of existing Aussiebrands. We DO like to buy Australian if we think our brand is globally as goodas the next. My apologies but I think you've already proved you're the wrongguy for what should be the ongoing QF model. As far as losing money oninternational, do you mean versus the money you could make with Asian workersor do you mean not breaking even. If the latter I don't believe you judgingfrom the thin selection of routes offered nowadays by QF international plusthat everybody I know who travels on them telling me they're nearly alwaysfull!
One again I've had my diatribe. So far my humble efforts don't seem to be working. If VA offer less 'pay for view' style service therefore a more complete package at the average punter right price end, keep improving in general, join Star Alliance & QF keeps sliding well, maybe my other 40+ flights a year will go across to VA.

A final word. LCC's are enjoying good growth because obviously they're cheap but also because they're bringing in customers that otherwise may not fly. Many of these customers are younger that only opt in if the price is right, don't have great expectations if the price is right & can handle & almost expect there to be some minor hassles for a $49 fare. They're also eBayers & the like. This is not a criticism just the fact that they're a different market. They're going to fly Jetstar, Air Asia or Tiger. They're not going to fly QF. So why is it the seat pitch on the very new 737's QF fly on contract through their Jetconnect NZ subsidiary (so vastly reduced labour costs already for QF) have an even more reduced seat pitch of just 29"? Positively Jetstaresque. The IFE is great, the food adequate. But with my knees stuck into the seat in front of me for 3 hours each way from any Eastern State capital, that the seat pitch is not the typical QF 31" seat pitch why am I flying QF when I can be just as uncomfortable on Jetstar or get an extra inch on VA for about $50-$100 less even after I pay for food & IFE??? Once again Mr Joyce they've put you in the wrong job & I wouldn't buy QF shares as a result!

Is it just me or is this simple stuff that these bean counters with only this single skill just don't understand & are ruining enjoyment of the world we live in?

 

[Awesom Andy]

Is it just me or is this simple stuff that these bean counters with only this single skill just don't understand & are ruining enjoyment of the world we live in?

Being technically a bean counter myself, I can assure you that it's the latter.

 

[medhead]

Not sure whether you read my extensive analysis a while back for my flying needs. Qantas is way in front and as I value QFF points a lot more than Velocity points there is a gain there as well.

In my experience Virign would need to be at least $20 cheaper to even make me consider flying them.


Yes we do have slightly different travel patterns. You are commuting ADL-SYD which is going against the flow of traffic. I am commuting SYD-BNE which goes with the flow of traffic. Commuting BNE-SYD may well be a totally different story but I do not want to research this as I am commuting SYD-BNE.

Whether youbelieve me or not when Virign have sale airfares SYD-BNE and vv there is almost no chance you will find a sale airfare SYD-BNE on a Sunday night.

I must have forgotten your analysis, but I vaguely recall it now that you mention it.

I'm not sure about you view on the flow direction. The can fill 2 737s at 6am every monday morning. Certainly nothing like a golden triangle route, but people are going to Sydney at the start of the week and heading back at the end of the week. Why? ADL has a better lifestyle and SYD pays well.

It is not about believing you. You are the expert on the route. More that my experience is the opposite.

 

[JohnK]

For 6900 points plus $166 I could head to Perth in J with DJ in the morning which is not a seat you have sat in JohnK, that might change your preference, maybe not, regardless of the seat, cheap award flights at short notice are priceless IMHO.

Yes I forgot about that one but at guess that is another loop hole that is not likely to last long as Virgin is likely to go out of business with just award redemptions in their business class seats to/from PER.

Still in my eyes that is not a selling point for switching my business over to Virgin but I can see how it will entice some people.

 

[JohnK]

I must have forgotten your analysis, but I vaguely recall it now that you mention it.

I'm not sure about you view on the flow direction. The can fill 2 737s at 6am every monday morning. Certainly nothing like a golden triangle route, but people are going to Sydney at the start of the week and heading back at the end of the week. Why? ADL has a better lifestyle and SYD pays well.

It is not about believing you. You are the expert on the route. More that my experience is the opposite.

And I totally accept your analysis on what suits you the most.

I am guessing that commuting BNE-SYD will be much cheaper than commutng SYD-BNE. And by the way I have seen the airfares charged for commuting BNE-SYD at the same times I am commuting SYD-BNE.

In the same way I believe that commuting ADL-SYD would be much cheaper than commuting SYD-ADL.

And something else in your favour is that ADL-SYD is much more expensive than SYD-BNE. So perhaps a combination of Virgin Gold and Qantas Gold suits you down to the ground.

I am only going to spend ~$5,000 on commuting every year and with that spend I cannot get status on Virgin but with a few dollars more I can get Platinum status on Qantas. It is really a no brainer for me and unless Virgin can entice me there is no reason to move more than 7-8 flights a year to them.

 

[medhead]

And I totally accept your analysis on what suits you the most.

I am guessing that commuting BNE-SYD will be much cheaper than commutng SYD-BNE. And by the way I have seen the airfares charged for commuting BNE-SYD at the same times I am commuting SYD-BNE.

In the same way I believe that commuting ADL-SYD would be much cheaper than commuting SYD-ADL.

And something else in your favour is that ADL-SYD is much more expensive than SYD-BNE. So perhaps a combination of Virgin Gold and Qantas Gold suits you down to the ground.

I am only going to spend ~$5,000 on commuting every year and with that spend I cannot get status on Virgin but with a few dollars more I can get Platinum status on Qantas. It is really a no brainer for me and unless Virgin can entice me there is no reason to move more than 7-8 flights a year to them.

Well, it isn't really a case of what suits me most, I just need to get to SYD and back as cheap as possible. But yes it does help doing carry on only and eating in the lounge instead of on the aircraft.

I'm really having trouble with your assumption about ADL-SYD vs SYD-ADL and similarly on any particular route. There are a couple of reasons. First as a general principle, you can always get the base red-e-deal in either direction - it is just a question of how early you book the fare.

Then looking at the ADL-SYD vv route. There are more flights in the Morning ADL-SYD 6, 7 and 8 am. SYD-ADL 7:10 and 8:20. Then if I look at a specific advance booking (yes I know a one off) to try to neutralise the late booking price premium in November, depart 14 and return 17, my typical requirement, I get the following options:

[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Nov14[/TD]
[TD]Nov 14[/TD]
[TD]Nov 17[/TD]
[TD]Nov 17[/TD]
[TD]Nov 18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ADL-SYD-ADL[/TD]
[TD]QF730[/TD]
[TD]$209[/TD]
[TD]QF743[/TD]
[TD]$209[/TD]
[TD]$279[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]QF732[/TD]
[TD]$209[/TD]
[TD]QF785[/TD]
[TD]$249[/TD]
[TD]$279[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]QF740[/TD]
[TD]$209[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SYD-ADL-SYD[/TD]
[TD]QF735[/TD]
[TD]$209[/TD]
[TD]QF766[/TD]
[TD]$139[/TD]
[TD]$139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]QF739[/TD]
[TD]$169[/TD]
[TD]QF774[/TD]
[TD]$139[/TD]
[TD]$209[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



Ok I added in the Friday return. I think even for this one off example, the demand isn't reflected in the prices for SYD-ADL commuting. I also think the timetable indicates a late of communting demand, flights at 17:45 and 18:50 compared to 17:30, 18:30 and 20:45 in the other direction.

BTW in awe of your low spend, I budget about twice as much. Maybe we could hot bed in at your sydney residence

 

[JohnK]

Well, it isn't really a case of what suits me most, I just need to get to SYD and back as cheap as possible. But yes it does help doing carry on only and eating in the lounge instead of on the aircraft.

I'm really having trouble with your assumption about ADL-SYD vs SYD-ADL and similarly on any particular route. There are a couple of reasons. First as a general principle, you can always get the base red-e-deal in either direction - it is just a question of how early you book the fare.

Not sure to explain it.

SYD-BNE on a Sunday night and BNE-SYD on a Friday night is not quite the same as BNE-SYD on a Sunday night and SYD-BNE on a Friday night.

Why? I can find cheap airfares on QF and DJ commuting BNE-SYD but not the same the other way around. Why? I have no idea.

BTW in awe of your low spend, I budget about twice as much. Maybe we could hot bed in at your sydney residence

Possibly but mum and dad may not be so pleased.

 

[medhead]

Not sure to explain it.

SYD-BNE on a Sunday night and BNE-SYD on a Friday night is not quite the same as BNE-SYD on a Sunday night and SYD-BNE on a Friday night.

Why? I can find cheap airfares on QF and DJ commuting BNE-SYD but not the same the other way around. Why? I have no idea.

yeah I had a quick look at BNE-SYD vv. It was a bit strange. Again I looked in November just to wipe out the extra cost of buying next week. Bit expensive on the Friday getting back to SYD. But Sunday had plenty of $88 fares on DJ vs $112 on QF. Interesting. I think the 15SC earn on QF also benefits me better than the 10SC you get flying to BNE.

 

[JohnK]

yeah I had a quick look at BNE-SYD vv. It was a bit strange. Again I looked in November just to wipe out the extra cost of buying next week. Bit expensive on the Friday getting back to SYD. But Sunday had plenty of $88 fares on DJ vs $112 on QF. Interesting. I think the 15SC earn on QF also benefits me better than the 10SC you get flying to BNE.

But see November is a sale month. I already have my airfares for November.

But when Virgin and Qantas have November on sale the $112 Qantas airfare reduces to $89 (or, $85, $79, $75 depending on fuel surcharge) for most flights on Sunday and the $88 Virgin airfare stays the same and there are only 2-3 flights in the morning at $65.

So in summary it becomes $89 for Qantas including luggage, food and soft drink/juice or $88 for Virgin with seat only included. It does not really require any thought.

 

[QF WP]

Well I do have a small number of Moss Wood

Gee it sounds like a raid on our WA wine stocks! Bring bananas and we will let you in! Actually better Not.Better still bring spending money and we will get you into Mosswood and Cullens if you are into reds.

Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app

 

[Blackadder]

Haven't switched to Virgin. and won't even consider ituntil to they have all inclusive pricing.
If people just want a seat, all well and good but for those like myself who want a seat, luggage included and a meal/snack then it is QF for me.

 

[Jack Melon]

Haven't switched to Virgin. and won't even consider ituntil to they have all inclusive pricing.
If people just want a seat, all well and good but for those like myself who want a seat, luggage included and a meal/snack then it is QF for me.

That's why Virgin have introduced flexi fare types. Id much rather Virgin's fresh clean food then Qantas ridiculous servings and frozen. But thats your opinion, in a year i would say why would you travel on qantas for twice as much when there is a better product on virgin.

 

[kamchatsky]

These days I would try to fly Virgin when I can, even though I don't fly that much.

Admittedly SYD QF Dom Terminal is much more spacious that the crowded DJ/JQ Terminal.

 

[medhead]

But see November is a sale month. I already have my airfares for November.But when Virgin and Qantas have November on sale the $112 Qantas airfare reduces to $89 (or, $85, $79, $75 depending on fuel surcharge) for most flights on Sunday and the $88 Virgin airfare stays the same and there are only 2-3 flights in the morning at $65.So in summary it becomes $89 for Qantas including luggage, food and soft drink/juice or $88 for Virgin with seat only included. It does not really require any thought.

Ah, see that is the difference I'm only halfway into October. Only then because of the school holidays. This year I'm trying to stay within 3 months for bookings. Rather than virgin sales, I'm finding Happy Hours to be much better and those are generally only 1 or 2 months in advance. I've picked up a few very good happy hour fares.

BTW I picked November to test as it is a safe month. That avoids school holiday complications and gives an idea of the base case.

 

[cove]

Come to Perth for the Diana Madeline Cullen red and the Moss Wood reds. You can be the guinea pigs and test Virgin business for our group if you dare!

 

[medhead]

Come to Perth for the Diana Madeline Cullen red and the Moss Wood reds. You can be the guinea pigs and test Virgin business for our group if you dare!

I'd love to, but then I have low expectations and haven't much experience with domestic J. I'd probably think DJ J was great, and it probably is compared to any Y.

 

[Blackadder]

That's why Virgin have introduced flexi fare types. Id much rather Virgin's fresh clean food then Qantas ridiculous servings and frozen. But thats your opinion, in a year i would say why would you travel on qantas for twice as much when there is a better product on virgin.

Twice as much on QF, compared to Virgin Flexi fares..hmmm obviously just a statistical glitch that the cheapest Virgin Flexi fare for a SYD-MEL-SYD ticket next weekend is at least $80 more expensive than QF.
Fair enough you are a VA fan boy but the prices speak for themselves.

 

[nlagalle]

That's why Virgin have introduced flexi fare types. Id much rather Virgin's fresh clean food then Qantas ridiculous servings and frozen. But thats your opinion, in a year i would say why would you travel on qantas for twice as much when there is a better product on virgin.

Jack, we can see that you are a Virgin Fanboi, and that's great. I've always said each to their own and what suits you.

However Virgin don't do everything better than Qantas. So please stop beating that drum. I've had some great meals on QF and some average ones. But I've never had a frozen meal or one I couldn't eat.

And Qantas isn't "twice the price" of Virgin, sometimes QF are cheaper, sometime Virgin are. And alot of the time they are around the same!

/end rant!

 

[markis10]

+1 to the above

Sent from my LG-P500 using AustFreqFly App