Heads up about program changes

[Robbi]

It's funny how they say it's about making earning points fairer, when those people who maximise use of credit cards and EDR's etc can earn points much easier than a flyer.

QF clearly does not want people to fly, they'd rather sell points to companies, it's much easier for them than doing their core business.

 

[Archphoto]

And how about those of us who do a lot of flying on routes that Qantas does not service? I'm vastly worse off under the new system, and I don't consider what I was doing gaming the system. I fly QF (or very occasionally JQ) pretty much every time I'm flying on a route they service. If they don't fly the route, I choose a one world carrier. I've been loyal to Qantas, not gaming the system, and I'm a hell of a lot worse off.

+1 from me too. We have flown all over the world for business and would always choose QF as our #1 carrier, only using OW partners when QF didn't service the route. I garnered WP 3 yrs running, flying discount economy (client pays the cheapest they can), that was a lot of uncomfortable seats/legs/backs I had to put up with.Plus when we flew to China, we could have chosen CX direct from ADL and connected from there. Instead we remained loyal to our national carrier. Heads up QF - not everyone can afford to fly J (or even Full Y); yet we still choose you over the competition because we actually want to support you, our national carrier.

What do we get in return - reductions in SCs and points simply because we aren't flying the cabin you feel is worthy of recognition. If it wasn't for all those butts in seats at the back of the plane - you'd be bankrupt 100x over. We may not fly your most expensive cabin/s, but those of us who do it day-in, day-out (sometimes 365 days a year!!) are the people keeping you in the air, not the once a year J/F fliers.

Loyalty cuts both ways and it seems QF has rather lost sight of that fact. QF, it's your customers who can make you or break you - the choice of which of the two it ends up being, is entirely your making. But judging from comments here on AFF (and in both social and print media) over the past few days, it looks like you made a rather ill-thought out decision.

By all means, reward your high flyers who fly J/F, but don't forget, those of us at the back of the plane are quite possibly flying a whole lot more than the guy in 1A. It's just that our employer/client/salary won't allow us to pay $3K plus to get from A-B, as $1K max is all they're willing/are able to pay.

Feb 2014 ADL-SYD-BKK

SCs ADL-SYD 15
SCs SYD-BKK 30

Pts: ADL-SYD 1088
Pts: SYD-BKK 7026

Total SCs: 45
Total Points: 8114

From July 1 2014

SCs ADL-SYD 10
SCs SYD-BKK 30

Pts: ADL-SYD 800
Pts: SYD-BKK 3900

Not only do I lose 5 SCs but you're also cutting my points earn by a whopping 57%!! As I'm still paying the same price as I did in February and flying the exact same distance, how exactly do you explain the huge difference?

I guess by moving Adelaide some 700kms east by your geographic region calculations, you are insisting this is why I get less SCs and points on the ADL-SYD route, but really, when did SYD move closer to BKK (or vice-versa??), 'cause I'd like to see the memo about that, along with a No-News report describing the chaos that followed said move.:mrgreen:

 

[Himeno]

Feb 2014 ADL-SYD-BKK

SCs ADL-SYD 15
SCs SYD-BKK 30

Pts: ADL-SYD 1088
Pts: SYD-BKK 7026

Total SCs: 45
Total Points: 8114

From July 1 2014

SCs ADL-SYD 10
SCs SYD-BKK 30

Pts: ADL-SYD 800
Pts: SYD-BKK 3900

Or, if they change to the Skywards per trip model rather then per sector, it would be ADL-BKK, 3900 points, 40 SC

 

[ReLoad]

It's funny how they say it's about making earning points fairer, when those people who maximise use of credit cards and EDR's etc can earn points much easier than a flyer.

QF clearly does not want people to fly, they'd rather sell points to companies, it's much easier for them than doing their core business.

I'm not an accountant, however wouldn't they be making big bucks selling those points to woollies etc?
Wouldn't they also be charging the airline side of the business for generating points that they create too?

So by giving away less points it's saving the airline side of the business money.

Personally the whole less points generating thing with these changes is meh, it's the SC and partner SC earning that has most people a bit miffed.

Points as you suggest are easily obtained, SC are not so easy

 

[Robbi]

What do we get in return - reductions in SCs and points simply because we aren't flying the cabin you feel is worthy of recognition. If it wasn't for all those butts in seats at the back of the plane - you'd be bankrupt 100x over. We may not fly your most expensive cabin/s, but those of us who do it day-in, day-out (sometimes 365 days a year!!) are the people keeping you in the air, not the once a year J/F fliers.

Loyalty cuts both ways and it seems QF has rather lost sight of that fact. QF, it's your customers who can make you or break you - the choice of which of the two it ends up being, is entirely your making. But judging from comments here on AFF (and in both social and print media) over the past few days, it looks like you made a rather ill-thought out decision.

Not only do I lose 5 SCs but you're also cutting my points earn by a whopping 57%!! As I'm still paying the same price as I did in February and flying the exact same distance, how exactly do you explain the huge difference?

I guess by moving Adelaide some 700kms east by your geographic region calculations, you are insisting this is why I get less SCs and points on the ADL-SYD route, but really, when did SYD move closer to BKK (or vice-versa??), 'cause I'd like to see the memo about that, along with a No-News report describing the chaos that followed said move.:mrgreen:

Hear hear!

My regular trips to EU will see a small drop in SC's but ~60% drop in FF points. As it was, my last 2 MEL-LHR and LHR-MEL flights in WhY were <50% full.

I chose QF because it is QF and paid the 15-20% QF surcharge over other carriers, but can't see any reason to be loyal any more.

As stated above, by all means reward higher class passengers better, but pillaging your bread and butter is a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Expectans Expectavi]

I won't be too weepy about domestic cheapie losses because I virtually stopped using Qantas after sustained lack of reasonable response to valid other complaints. However, if I can get my head around the new First Status/Miles credits I just might shuffle a Last First class Tango around-the-world.
A recent MH PER/KL/BKK/KL/PEN/KL/PER has netted a full 102 QF miles and 20 status credits - so far.... Pleasant lounges, though. Wineless BKK TG substitute. Oh, and QF let Hilton London 'gift' 328 and 356 points instead of 2,000 as previously. Waldorf.... beautiful!

Some non or unaddressed complaints?

Bungled introduction of P1 ending with irrelevant cut & paste passed via minion by telephonically-rude FF junior

Missing out on better Y seats on 747 to DFW because in 6 months prior enquiries nobody seemed to know about the bulkhead foot space. Return, thats some 32 hours cramped misery with Noumea side trip. Eventual reply referred to one way flight.

EK lounges barring admission because QF wording incorrect. Pity, because PER EK is nice. Too tired for DXB (First).

And yet, after 45 years I might forget Qantas grievances if only they would change somewhat as others suggest.

 

[medhead]

Thank you Newk....I don't think there is a simple answer. Anyway I think QF is dead in Adelaide, need to make sure I keep my VA Plat and another One World card. I fear QF will soon be using Qantas Link to service us domestically. At least we are getting good international service !

What about American Airlines or US airways? AA at least is a preferred option around here. Malaysia seems to have fairly cheap award flights.

 

[Buzzard]

But after July 1 will it even be necessary?

Might see you at Centrelink

 

[Himeno]

Might see you at Centrelink

Only if Alan Joyce is in the same line.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Hear hear!

My regular trips to EU will see a small drop in SC's but ~60% drop in FF points. As it was, my last 2 MEL-LHR and LHR-MEL flights in WhY were <50% full.

I chose QF because it is QF and paid the 15-20% QF surcharge over other carriers, but can't see any reason to be loyal any more.

As stated above, by all means reward higher class passengers better, but pillaging your bread and butter is a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

IMO QF are not rewarding "higher class passengers" with the latest raft of changes. Those who fly on discounted J tickets are at best no worse off and in some cases definitely worse off. This is especially the case if you need to fly a route which QF only serves through their OW partners.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

It is very clear that since the Nadi SC run was removed it seems all QF have been doing is going through the AFF site and ensuring they remove each so-called loophole one by one. QF are normally the most expensive, their service is inconsistent (which is to be expected with current company morale), the equipment is average at best, routes are ever-changing and JQ keeps getting the free walk (routes, gates, 787, etc). I've endured the 767 flights to HNL, the removal of my preferred routes to JQ, the stale ice-old bread rolls, the so called lunch in Y of packet biscuits, the eye-rolling of over-worked flight attendants, the old IFE that needed to be rebooted several times and never being able to finish a movie, the iPad with 3% battery left, etc etc.

After five years at the helm it is clear AJ does not have what it takes to turn the airline around yet I cannot believe he is still there. If I was CEO and my company performed as QF have I would be given the axe so fast it would not be funny - and I would fully expect it!

After July 1 there are no more reasons for me to continue to fly with QF - a very sad day for me but I will not take any more slaps in the face by AJ and the board. I've instructed my PA to stop booking with QF and will be chatting to the travel team to look at alternatives for the entire company.

Good luck QF you'll need it as long as you keep with the current team at the top.

 

[hpsn]

I After July 1 there are no more reasons for me to continue to fly with QF -

I am totally confused on what I should do, most of my flights are domestic. So I think I am not that affected by the change. I do fly to KL and DEL couple of times a year. Is QFF still the way to go for me? Or should I move to something like CP Marco Polo.

Would be great to get some feedback.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Flashback]

Let me start this post with saying I have just wasted several hours reading it from start to end before replying, so I have a true holistic view on what is being said/responded to.

Whilst we all knew thought that JASA may go despite the constant reassurance from Qantas this new Earn Table is the worst thing I have ever seen..

Qantas Thank you its been good whilst it lasted but now its time to say Good Bye........

I have over 600K points and these will be gone Soon and I will increase my spend on Star Now. All that is needed is for VA to join Star and QF will be a dead duck...

Very Very Disappointing

I recall you saying the same when there was the removal of ASA's from online booking, but you're still here .. cry wolf much?

I personally have had a bad taste of QF FF after cancelling the only QF international flights out of Perth. My work will still fly me QF as the VA connections arent up to speed, as of yet....but when they do VA all the way. I feel my move to UK in the pending year will have a drastic effect on my money spend over the next few years. I will watch QF struggle i think..good luck everyone in this debacle!!

Welcome to the club as another ex-PER resident living in LON and no longer using QF :mrgreen:

Here are my thoughts on the changes:

The QFF program in its current form is actually extremely generous. Status credit and point earn rates are huge. Basically, earning and retaining status on Qantas is much is easier compared to some other airlines. I’ve done quite an in depth comparison between the Qatar Airways, Cathay Pacific and Qantas frequent flyer programs. I compared status (or tier credit, Q points etc etc) earn rates on certain sectors. For example, if I used a CX or QR FF number and flew other oneworld airlines in J, I would require almost double the amount of status credits, or Q points etc to move up the ladder (and therefore double the amount of flights) than I currently do with QF. In short, retaining my current Platinum level with Qantas is much easier, quicker and more economical than if I jumped ship to the CX or QR program and attempted to attain Emerald with them.

At the end of the day, status tiers are there to reward frequent flyers who actually fly regularly or spend large amounts of money on premium tickets, thus being “loyal”. Tier status should not be for those people who waste their time, money and points on “status runs” just to attain the next level so they can access the F lounge an expect a free upgrade on their twice yearly vacation to the US (for the purposes of doing status runs on AA….). The demise of MASA’s is sad but not surprising and in the long run, I think it’s best if top tier levels like Sapphire and Emerald are reserved for those who actually earn it, not “buy” it. Otherwise what is the point in having these top tier levels to begin with if they are easy to attain, thus making them less exclusive? Status privileges such as F lounge access, upgrades, priority seating should be reserved for those who actually deserve and earn the status, and fly regularly. Sorry, I know I have just severely pissed off more than half this forum.

So, I think considering the difficulties QF are currently facing, these changes make absolute sense. If that means I lose my Emerald status and have to downgrade to Sapphire because I no longer earn as many SC’s etc, then so be it. If I don’t meet the criteria to retain Emerald, then I should not be entitled to it. Those who travel consistently and regularly should be rewarded with privileges.
At the end of the day, entire frequent flyer program is a privilege, not a right. It’s free. When you book a ticket with Qantas, all you are really entitled to is a seat on the flight you paid for. Anything else such as free points which can be used to purchase more flights, products or services or SC’s rewarded to you are a essentially a free gift.
Once again, compare the Qantas Frequent flyer Program to other airlines and even with these changes, it’s still quite decent. I remember in around 2004 when United Airlines changed their Mileage Plus Program meaning that the minimum points earned for a flight was only 500 not 1000 (I think it’s even less now…?). Here we are 10 years later and Qantas have only just changed this. Maybe it’s not so bad after all!

As for all those banging on about going to VA – I hope that works out for you. VA suck. They tried to emulate and copy the QFF program and have failed. They will always be number 2.

By the way, I don’t work for Qantas and am not affiliated with them in any way. I’m just not going to get my knickers in a knot over changes (to a FREE program) that make absolute financial sense for a Qantas.

+1 - well thought out summary. As people are now finding out, earning status on QF was pretty darn easy compared to other programs.

Good time for VA to run another status match

Then we just need to wait for the thread from the VA fanboys whining about how crowded the VA lounges are

Many have posted on why they believe the changes will actually be to the detriment of QF - due to now no longer considering QF first, but best fare of the day thereby decreasing QF's revenue.

To my mind, QF have gone for the stick out the carrot-and-stick. What would have happened if they'd gone for the carrot?

Reviewing the WP benefits: the majority are actually of little cost to QF. The two major cost items are probably WP access to Domestic J Lounges and International F.

Given the additional revenue stream associated with Fees and Taxes, I'd say that the biggest issue for QF with respect to MASA (and especially JASAs) was the status accelerator. I can understand their looking to reduce this - I cannot understand QF stating they were here to stay when we all felt they were living on borrowed time. I'm not surprised they've disappeared - given the additional cost of having to book these via the call centre, I cannot believe that QF did not shut this down sooner.

What was stopping QF from maintaining the current points and earn rates on partner airlines and increasing the reward for travelling on QF, at the same time increasing the renewal levels to the acquire levels? This would have the effect of people actively looking to book QF. We've all grown used to QF devaluing the Product (both onboard and status entitlements); we all know Fees and Taxes will continue to increase in proportion to the points value of reward fare: devaluation by stealth.

I think it is symptomatic of the current Executive Team that they prefer to punish rather than reward. That - more than anything - highlights the issue QF Group currently finds itself in.

JB must have had a very good night's sleep last night knowing that Velocity suddenly appreciated in value overnight without him having to do a thing. Sure, over time I'm sure there will be negative changes there, too, I just imagine that it is far more likely to carrot-flavoured than hurting like you been beaten by a stick.

Regards,

BD

+1

The biggest kick to me is that QF has taken the already previously 'enhanced' BA flights and 'marginalised' them more. Not content with earning crazily small points on UK domestic flights (and short EU hops), they've now added a rediculous 5sc tier in discount economy.

Welcome to the new club Mal, good to finally have you join me

As a PS QFF who funds all my travel myself mostly on discount economy International flights, I can already see I won't retain Silver in the future. I actually paid more for QF many many times. I understand what they are doing is apparently good for the airline (I'll repeat the word apparently). However I can't help think now that if i can't retain at the very least silver giving me an opportunity to at least select seats, there is no benefit to me even staying with QF and looking for better options. Even Skyteam on China Southern may end up being an option where premium economy is cheaper than QF economy and the seats are better than QF economy........ maybe I'm delirious like Qantas right now.

Glad to hear you've finally seen the light. It took a move to LON for me to realise that one eyed loyalty was a waste of time - much better off for it now.

If the short cut to tier status is really part of the reason then I wouldn't expect any more double SC offers.

Not so sure about that. Reductions were made around the lounges due to overcrowding .. but then the next day discount QP memberships were on sale *golf clap for QF*

I called BA today to change the FF number on a few upcoming bookings from QFF to AA. The phone rep pointed out that the seat selection I'll get 7 days out as QFF Silver won't apply with my AA number. I told her that was not an issue and to change the number anyway. She chuckled and said "I've had a couple of calls like that today"...

If you want to do this avoiding a phonecall use the Finnair (AY) website.

And it gets worse

Just spoke with a FF team member re a booking I have with BA and wanted to know the impact after the 1st July when I need to book again and was told the changes only apply to QF airline partners are not affected and there will NO change in earnings with OW partners WTF????? Seems like no one knows what the hell is going on.

Was also advised that BA NEVER gave the same points and SC out as QF and they only have ever given 0.25% of points regardless of class of travel and she knows as she has worked for QF for 11 years.

Gee good to see QF staff know what they are doing and yes she was rather snooty on the phone.

Indeed that is (almost) correct. BA has only ever earned 0.25 points/mile apart from routes covered by the JSA. SC however have always been full - so that lady was slightly misinformed.

As a Skywards and QF Gold FF, I can relate to that. Now both FF programs are becoming equally bad. But I least I do enjoy the Moet, and the Veuve isn't that bad either in the EK lounges

But I do have my lifetime Plat status with UA to fall back on. Mileage Plus makes QF/EK look very shabby.

Although MP had a massive devaluation just recently.....

IMO QF are not rewarding "higher class passengers" with the latest raft of changes. Those who fly on discounted J tickets are at best no worse off and in some cases definitely worse off. This is especially the case if you need to fly a route which QF only serves through their OW partners.

Amen. If I want to fly home to PER my options are CX via HKG or MH via KUL. I'm not interested in a QF / EK codeshare - that is aside from my trip I have coming up soon (LON-DXB-PER vv), but for 400 GBP return why wouldn't you!?

One final comment from me - all of you planning to move to AA, I hope you realise they don't have any soft status drops anymore which means if you're not a regular flyer year on year you'll go from EXP to Nothing in the drop of a hat

 

[drron]

Fine for me Flash.Really glad I pulled out all stops for AA LTP!

 

[Flashback]

Fine for me Flash.Really glad I pulled out all stops for AA LTP!

Indeed! I have a direct earn AA card now but missed the boat

 

[RSD]

It is very clear that since the Nadi SC run was removed...

What did they do to the Nadi run?

How do the new OW-partner points and SC earn tables compare to QF's non-OW partners(eg EK, FJ etc)? Might need someone good with XL to create a spreadsheet?

 

[Awesom Andy]

What did they do to the Nadi run?

It got enhanced.

 

[JohnK]

Any suggestion that SC earns on Jetstar will now be automatic and not available at some crazy additional cost? The information I read said SC would be earned on Jetstar flights. That would at least be one benefit if that has changed.

Just what we need right now.

It is bad enough that people can visit the First Lounge on the $9 price matches to Tiger but they should get the SCs and QFF points for that airfare as well?

 

[RSD]

It got enhanced.

How? What did they do to it?

 

[Awesom Andy]

How? What did they do to it?

In short, routing rules were changed, and in effect, the run was no longer worth the astronomical costs (if it was even bookable in the first place).