Hell is other people

[elbarto]

In the overhead lockers, of course.

That's just ridiculous russ.

Everyone knows you'd still hear them in the cabin.

In the cargo hold next to the fluffy puppies!! That would work! ;-)


Sent from my iPad using AustFreqFly App

Just make sure you're not flying Our Lady Air with Fergal as your cabin crew!

Infantile Humor: Come Fly With Me - YouTube

 

[wilco]

Hmm I had thought everyone was more or less equal, even Emeralds with children.

How preposterous!
Everyone knows emeralds are superior to everyone else, including themselves! Yeah, I'm confused too!!

 

[Boris spatsky]

Great thread, so I must add in my own story.

Mrs Spatsky and I decided to take Miss Spatsky (21 months at the time) to Europe for Xmas to see relatives. We went on points, and because she was under 2 years of age, she travelled free. The catch? She did not get her own seat, and we were in Y.

SYD-HKG QF, HKG-CDG CX, LHR-NRT JL, NRT-SYD JL.

We made sure prior to departure that we had organised a bassinette, and I had organised good seating (being a WP) for all legs. I rang QF to confirm that my daughter would be allowed to use the bassinets (at 10kgs - the limit being 11 kgs).

The trip from hell started on QF (A330). Whilst we were allocated the bassinet, the CSM refused my daughter from using it because "she looks too heavy". Now, she was a normal kid in the 50% for weight for her age, and 40% height, so absolutely normal for her age. She was under the weight limit by 1kg, but QF bluntly refused. So she had to endure the trip on my lap. All good and well until we got past 9pm (way past bed time), when she became over tired. I tried letting her sleep on my seat as I stood up the back, but it didn't work. Tried AVOD, food, cuddles, books, stories, songs but to no avail. She was simply overtired, was howling like a banshee and would not calm down. In the end I took her into the toilet and locked myself in there. We had 4 hours or so of screaming. The hosties did not want to know us, no one offered to help (not that there was anything we could do, my wife and I literally tried everything). I was given death stares by almost all pax, one person even had the hide to tell me to 'control my child'.


This continued at HKG immigration, where a lovely HKG customs official whisked us out of the line, through a side door, processed us, and we were on our way.

As you can imagine I was petrified of the next 14 hour leg to Paris. I rang QF again to confirm and even spoke to CX directly. Amazingly, that leg was fine because CX allowed us to use the bassinet. She slept for 12 hours.


On the way home, however, we ran into the same difficulties with JAL. They would not let her use the bassinet, nor would they let her sleep on the floor. Same problem with overnight flights - happy enough until 2 hours past normal bedtime, and then it all started. JAL staff were even ruder than QF - one hostie made an announcement on the PA that ear plugs were being passed around due to the 'extremely noisy child'.


At the end of the trip, my wife and I declared that we would never ever again take our kids long haul overnight, for everyone's sake. I am now staring down the barrel of a trip to see relatives in the US, but Miss Spatsky is now 4 and she will get her own seat so I am willing to risk that. Via Hawaii of course


My gripe is with the allocation of bassinets. I did the right thing and did my research. She met the height and weight limitations of the bassinet, yet 2 out of 3 airlines did not let her use them. I just could not understand the logic. Consistency for OW in this instance was terrible.

 

[awilcockson]

They would not let her use the bassinet, nor would they let her sleep on the floor. Same problem with overnight flights - happy enough until 2 hours past normal bedtime, and then it all started. JAL staff were even ruder than QF - one hostie made an announcement on the PA that ear plugs were being passed around due to the 'extremely noisy child'.

They would not have wanted to try that with me. That is truly atrocious behaviour, I hope you complained in writing, and took names of the cabin crew?

 

[Stephen65]

Great thread, so I must add in my own story.

[a tale of woe follows]

We flew once with our first child when he was about 6 months old without him having a seat. After that we decided to always get them their own seats even when aged under 2.

 

[sarvowinner]

Great thread, so I must add in my own story.

Mrs Spatsky and I decided to take Miss Spatsky (21 months at the time) to Europe for Xmas to see relatives. We went on points, and because she was under 2 years of age, she travelled free. The catch? She did not get her own seat, and we were in Y.


My gripe is with the allocation of bassinets. I did the right thing and did my research. She met the height and weight limitations of the bassinet, yet 2 out of 3 airlines did not let her use them. I just could not understand the logic. Consistency for OW in this instance was terrible.

While Miss Spatsky met the height & weight limit, the current age limit is 18 months but recommended is 8 months:
"Bassinets may be requested for infants up to 18 months of age, but the recommended age limit for bassinet use on international flights is eight months. The weight limit is 11kg (25lbs). The bassinet size is 71cm x 31cm (28in x 12in). The depth is approximately 26cm (10.5in)."

I wonder if it due to increased mobility? It still doesn't excuse Qantas telling you you could use the bassinet.

Prodigal Daughter was always well behaved on planes, including when I took her by myself on a 30 hour flight to Windsor, Ontario at 8 months old. However we took her to Kakadu at the end of the wet season when she was almost 3. On the Yellow River cruise in a what was really an oversized tinny, she threw the biggest dummy spit which went on for the whole cruise. There was nowhere to hide. Nothing would calm her and we had the entire boat load glaring at us. It was a first and I was so mortified, feeding her to the crocs flashed through my mnd. As we disembarked, everyone stonyfaced walked off ignoring our apologies. I have never beeen judgemental about crying kids since. Luckily (for PG) it was a once off.

 

[tuapekastar]

Great thread, so I must add in my own story.

Mrs Spatsky and I decided to take Miss Spatsky (21 months at the time) to Europe for Xmas to see relatives. We went on points, and because she was under 2 years of age, she travelled free. The catch? She did not get her own seat, and we were in Y.

SYD-HKG QF, HKG-CDG CX, LHR-NRT JL, NRT-SYD JL.

We made sure prior to departure that we had organised a bassinette, and I had organised good seating (being a WP) for all legs. I rang QF to confirm that my daughter would be allowed to use the bassinets (at 10kgs - the limit being 11 kgs).

[

I don't normally get too annoyed by these sorts of stories (stuff happens), but on this occasion you were definitely given a bum rap by QF and JL. The crew behaviour in each case sounds disgraceful. I do hope this is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[dfcatch]

So how would that help? Are you saying the people downstairs on a 747 or at the back of an A380 are less entitled to peace and quite than those up top or at the front? Hmm I had thought everyone was more or less equal, even Emeralds with children.

Actually - given that QF (and many airlines) give high status pax preferential seating up front - then yes!!

(and we're not talking about infants with the OP.... As a WP I know that at the bulkhead I risk an infant. I have never had issue with this - even crying infants. )

But outside the bassinet - then yes - I support zonal seating.

 

[harvyk]

Whilst we were allocated the bassinet, the CSM refused my daughter from using it because "she looks too heavy".

That's strange, our boys are both over the age limit and over the weight limit for the bassinet's, but still on our last trip the FA came along and dropped in down just after takeoff and suggested we place one of the boys in it, which we did except he didn't want to sit down \ sleep in it.

I have also found crews to always be very accommodating and helpful with infants \ kids in general (this is on QF and AirNZ). So to find two crews treating you so badly does seem like you drew the short straw.

 

[JohnK]

Crying babies are expected and I will do anything possible to ensure they have a pleasant flight.

Screaming brats on the other hand are not acceptable. I don't have children but is it really that hard to control children?

A friend of mine who'e a S/H CSM went BNE/LAX with her family & got on at the last minute. Her hubby & 8yo son got middle seats in PE in separate rows, her 6yo daughter got J main deck & her mum was in an exit row upstairs. Not sure in the end where everyone ended up however it's not surprising why a lot of staff elect to buy tickets like everyone else as the ability to pre-allocate seats & know you will be seated together is a luxury.

I am going off-topic and not being critical of your comment but what is it with people on discount travel and being seated together the number one priority? Enjoy the holiday and who cares if you will spend a few hours apart. Make it a point to get up and go for a walk regularly and go and talk to the other people travelling with you.

A wise man said to me once. Actually it was my father and we were travelling together. "Do not refuse any op-ups on account of me!"

 

[gstapleton]

JohnK why don't you write a book on raising children. I have the title for you already.

"kids, I don't have none, but how hard can it be"

I can't wait to read Chapter 3 where you tell us based on your shaman techniques what we have been doing wrong to reason with children who can't be reasoned with by a normal parent.

 

[spudseamus]

Flying back from SYD to Mel I had a mother with a very young baby in one of those slings to the front of her plus a 4 yr old girl in tow. She had the inside seat and the little girl middle and myself in the aisle any way this mother was just having a few problems with space ,we were in Y, so I offered to help her in any way I could ! she of course declined any help and said that although it was her first trip with littlies that she was sure she could manage but a little while later she was having some troubles coping and our eyes met ,no words were necessary, so I started to look after the young 4 yr old -- after a slow shy start we coloured books played Ispy and I told her some stories !! we had a great time it was then I noticed the 4 yr old cuddling into me and being very quiet so I leaned down and said "what's wrong ?" to which I was told" bubby's having coughie " and we have to be quiet!! LOL I nearly laughed out loud!!
When we were walking out into the terminal I was holding the 4 yr olds hand and it was the look of another male that sent cold shivers through me!! Her Dad was approaching at a rate of knots !! :shock: thank GOD mum was just behind me !! a quick explanation from her and big smiles all round

now this was a short trip and Im sure the novelty of this would ware off on a Mel to Dub trip :shock: so I do understand where the original poster was coming from.

 

[FuzzyAUS]

I know you only travel in F and I have never thought of walking through the airline. It is a good idea. Must do it one day.

If I am in F I generally do 1-2 laps of the aircraft when I am getting the bed made up, generally ask the crew to let PE know I will be coming up the back stairs but doesn't always happen.. So my walk is something like this..

Have a glass of water before leaving F in the galley, put glass away in the cart, get strange look then a laugh that I know the galley well, some of the time they then realise they remember me from a previous flight, head down the back, stretch and grab an apple at the back self serve area of Y, say hi if others are down there, head up the back stairs and open the safety gate (which is now always closed after the duty free cart on one of them went down the back stairs one evening).. If there is anyone in the top back galley/crew area often get asked what i am doing, let them know I am going for a walk, some remember that F crew reminded them that a big guy is going for a walk.. If not say I am in seat xx and going for a walk.. Throw out the apple core in the bin as I pass, make sure the CSM has passed out the boxes of chocolates, grab another water if thirsty, but will often grab a Byron bay cookie (think that's the brand) enjoy that on the walk from PE to the J lounge..

Grab another apple in the J lounge self service, eat that while stretching at the top of the stairs, finish apple, head down the stairs and into the F galley for another chat and another lap if I'm bored..

So after all that, my advice is go for a walk
I have been asked by the crew several times why I would ever leave F, but I like going for a walk as the SYD-LAX and return sectors I just find boring now after doing them 2-3 times per year for the last 6 years..

 

[FuzzyAUS]

Agree that as long as the parents are trying that's all we can expect. Kids are unpredictable at the best of times and are obviously going to be (for most at least) well out of their comfort zones on an aircraft.

From my few occasions I have had kids near me on long flights it seems to go wrong when the parents either don't make any attempt to keep their kids engaged / busy and / or they expect the already busy FA's to manage their kids for them.

By the way, love that last line in your post!

Totally agree, if the parents are seen to be trying then I have no problem, but if they are ignoring them the I have an issue, irrespective of class of travel etc

 

[harvyk]

Crying babies are expected and I will do anything possible to ensure they have a pleasant flight.

Screaming brats on the other hand are not acceptable. I don't have children but is it really that hard to control children?

It can be surprisingly difficult at the best of times, let alone when you in a tube many kilometers above the ground and the kids are bored.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Flying back from SYD to Mel I had a mother with a very young baby in one of those slings to the front of her plus a 4 yr old girl in tow. She had the inside seat and the little girl middle and myself in the aisle any way this mother was just having a few problems with space ,we were in Y, so I offered to help her in any way I could ! she of course declined any help and said that although it was her first trip with littlies that she was sure she could manage but a little while later she was having some troubles coping and our eyes met ,no words were necessary, so I started to look after the young 4 yr old -- after a slow shy start we coloured books played Ispy and I told her some stories !! we had a great time it was then I noticed the 4 yr old cuddling into me and being very quiet so I leaned down and said "what's wrong ?" to which I was told" bubby's having coughie " and we have to be quiet!! LOL I nearly laughed out loud!!
When we were walking out into the terminal I was holding the 4 yr olds hand and it was the look of another male that sent cold shivers through me!! Her Dad was approaching at a rate of knots !! :shock: thank GOD mum was just behind me !! a quick explanation from her and big smiles all round

now this was a short trip and Im sure the novelty of this would were off on a Mel to Dub trip :shock: so I do understand where the origional poster was coming from.

Spud, good stuff. As a father of a 2yr old, its recollections like the above that restore my faith in humanity.

 

[bossreggie]

If I am in F I generally do 1-2 laps of the aircraft when I am getting the bed made up, generally ask the crew to let PE know I will be coming up the back stairs but doesn't always happen.. So my walk is something like this..

Have a glass of water before leaving F in the galley, put glass away in the cart, get strange look then a laugh that I know the galley well, some of the time they then realise they remember me from a previous flight, head down the back, stretch and grab an apple at the back self serve area of Y, say hi if others are down there, head up the back stairs and open the safety gate (which is now always closed after the duty free cart on one of them went down the back stairs one evening).. If there is anyone in the top back galley/crew area often get asked what i am doing, let them know I am going for a walk, some remember that F crew reminded them that a big guy is going for a walk.. If not say I am in seat xx and going for a walk.. Throw out the apple core in the bin as I pass, make sure the CSM has passed out the boxes of chocolates, grab another water if thirsty, but will often grab a Byron bay cookie (think that's the brand) enjoy that on the walk from PE to the J lounge..

Grab another apple in the J lounge self service, eat that while stretching at the top of the stairs, finish apple, head down the stairs and into the F galley for another chat and another lap if I'm bored..

Good grief..... That's not a walk.... That's a bloody marathon!!

I drink HEAPS of water in the lounge and on the plane. (I need to as my body KNOWS it is about to be hammered)

When I do the lap of the plane I go forward first.... Up the stairs, through J and then PE, down the spiral rear stairs, then back through Y. I try not to allow my glass of champagne to run out on the walk. I expect that would cause a mild panic!!

 

[Storyteller]

Good grief..... That's not a walk.... That's a bloody marathon!!

I drink HEAPS of water in the lounge and on the plane. (I need to as my body KNOWS it is about to be hammered)

When I do the lap of the plane I go forward first.... Up the stairs, through J and then PE, down the spiral rear stairs, then back through Y. I try not to allow my glass of champagne to run out on the walk. I expect that would cause a mild panic!!

So do you get them to have a bottle of your preferred champagne at each galley just in case? It's not good to mix your drinks you know.

 

[JohnK]

It can be surprisingly difficult at the best of times, let alone when you in a tube many kilometers above the ground and the kids are bored.

I can understand. I do not know it all and one day (hopefully in the next couple of years) I would love to have kids myself. I would love to travel with them when they are old enough to understand but it will be on my terms not theirs. Upbringing dictates how a child behaves. A friend has raised 5 kids. He does not need to shout. He does not hurt them in any way. He just needs to call out their name and look at them and they start behaving like Angels. He has obviously set some ground rules and I admire that.

My simple rules? No tantrums. No harassing other people. No screaming. No shouting. Abuse these simple rules and you stay home. Am I being unreasonable? Perhaps and I do apologise to all those who have issues. As I said I understand if a baby cries on a flight as it does not know any better. A 7-8 year should be able to sit and behave and not act like a spoilt brat.

I still have very clear memories of the journey from Greece to Australia on a ship/cruise liner in 1972. It was 39 nights and 40 days with 2 adults and an 8 year old and 5 year old. The 8 year old was fairly mature and took care of the 5 year old. No tantrums. Just pure enjoyment as young kids getting out of the village and into the world for the first time. I miss those days and I will do a round the world or half round the world cruise again one day....

 

[harvyk]

I can understand. I do not know it all and one day (hopefully in the next couple of years) I would love to have kids myself. I would love to travel with them when they are old enough to understand but it will be on my terms not theirs. Upbringing dictates how a child behaves. A friend has raised 5 kids. He does not need to shout. He does not hurt them in any way. He just needs to call out their name and look at them and they start behaving like Angels. He has obviously set some ground rules and I admire that.

My simple rules? No tantrums. No harassing other people. No screaming. No shouting. Abuse these simple rules and you stay home. Am I being unreasonable? Perhaps and I do apologise to all those who have issues. As I said I understand if a baby cries on a flight as it does not know any better. A 7-8 year should be able to sit and behave and not act like a spoilt brat.

I still have very clear memories of the journey from Greece to Australia on a ship/cruise liner in 1972. It was 39 nights and 40 days with 2 adults and an 8 year old and 5 year old. The 8 year old was fairly mature and took care of the 5 year old. No tantrums. Just pure enjoyment as young kids getting out of the village and into the world for the first time. I miss those days and I will do a round the world or half round the world cruise again one day....

Whilest I won't disgree with the fact that parents should do all they can to control their kids, I have three of them. A daughter who is four and twin boys who are two, and with limited exception they have all been brought up the same. Just like with adults they each have their own personalities.

With the two boys, despite the fact they virtually have the same DNA, and have been together since birth and thus raised identically, there is very different personalities. If one causes a problem 9 times out of 10 it is a certain one.

Thats is the thing you learn as a parent, the books and experts (and other people with no experience) tell you what to do with the "average" child. The day I meet the average child I'll post a blog about it on AFF.