How many more times must international pax, due to an emergency, be stranded on the ground in AUS?

[tgh]

This was , after all , a LCC with questionable ethics.. arguably akin to a roulette wheel in terms of possible outcomes ( or non outcomes)
Folks pay their pennies and take their chances.. in this case a character building exercise with minimal impact on the public purse

 

[Warragul]

Dont know but the Guvment is progressing rolling out IT replacing a lot of government functions

It doesn't but at least many?/some? would be processed and be allowed out of detention for at least the period while they wait for a replacement flight. Maybe even go to a nearby hotel. This leaves those who cannot be processed that way a bit more room.

All the checked luggage are still onboard the aircraft. Customs not required.
A plan could easily include quarantine check of carry on luggage of the people who pass a eGate smart app.

But First is a plan to secure the passengers away from the aircraft.

Egate software cannot be put on an app, there's a fair bit of stuff going in the time the lights are on and camedras in use.

Customs not required if people are going to leave airside? Hand luggage, items carried on person?

Assuming the initial advice to government agencies was that the aircraft would be on the ground for a minimal amount of time, its a tall order then to expect the resources for a full disembarkation (even into a holding room) to be at the ready in an instant when staffing (even police) are not readily available, unless there are imminent safety concerns.

 

[Quickstatus]

Plus passports have to be checked physically.

It's been a while since my passport was physically checked by a immigration agent while travelling internationally,

 

[Quickstatus]

Egate software cannot be put on an app,

That's an assumption. Smartphone cameras are quite advanced. Everything else is on the cloud.

Customs not required

That is true that hand luggage would normally be subject to customs. However, customs is a monetary issue. If you have observed the usual practice by customs officers, not everyone gets the customs and quarantine treatment. What's the $$$ pickup from a flight of 335 passengers in the context of a disrupted flight.

I've had several delayed/cancelled international flights where I arrived home before the luggage. The luggage was subsequently delivered. I was not required to be present for customs/quarantine inspection.

However all that is secondary to the airport having a plan for the management of passengers from a diverted international flight. In the first instance that involves timely disembarkation to a secure area.

 

[Quickstatus]

ASP does not have immi facilities, no smart gate, no ABF officers stationed there, nowt.

Correct. So there should be a plan in place re the management of disrupted/diverted international flight and the passengers.

Planning ahead is effective mitigation. No one is saying that the plan should include the provision of immigration customs and quarantine service similar to a major international airport. But it could for example include setting up of a secure area and standing up of people and resources to facilitate catering, security, etc etc.

 

[RooFlyer]

And at 7.20 am at ASP I doubt any one senior enough in the NT Police or ASP staff was available to action that plan.

That's why you'd have an agent with a pre-researched plan. They'd liaise with the police well beforehand with a "What can we do if ... such and such happens; what Plan B can we put in place ..." A decision tree maybe. At 7:20am maybe they would know what could be accomplished in an hour or two.

Of course no plan is perfect, or will be actioned perfectly every time, but it might have a better outcome than a plan full of people in a slow roast on board a plane who WERE allowed off when the aircon failed - in spite of all the stuff about "no border force, no this, no that at ASP". Planning in any situation is better than the "D'oh! What do we do now???" management that JetStar appear to utilise.

BTW, I'm talking generally, not just in relation to ASP, including offshore potential landing ports in emergency situations.

 

[Quickstatus]

The one thing about an actionable plan is that it can be rehearsed and agreed to by the various stakeholders before the proverbial hits the fan
….....

So the passengers were able to be offloaded without the police being present?.

 

[justinbrett]

True enough, but it's more than an Immigration issue. Plus passports have to be checked physically.

Categorically not true. ABF can do a remote clearance. Have been on a couple of flights myself to NTL where this occurred (granted the pax on my flight were a little more trustworthy than your average JQ flight).

 

[flydoc]

Categorically not true. ABF can do a remote clearance. Have been on a couple of flights myself to NTL where this occurred (granted the pax on my flight were a little more trustworthy than your average JQ flight).

And this is exactly what happened for 2 of the pax who, upon insisting they needed to smoke, were taken by NT Pol to the watch house in town, received the remote ABF clearance, and were advised they were not welcome to board the replacement aircraft and would need to make their own onward arrangements. If that ban extended to all QF group flights then fortunately it was only 24 hours until one of the twice-weekly VA flights to ADL this afternoon.

 

[flydoc]

Assuming the initial advice to government agencies was that the aircraft would be on the ground for a minimal amount of time, its a tall order then to expect the resources for a full disembarkation (even into a holding room) to be at the ready in an instant when staffing (even police) are not readily available, unless there are imminent safety concerns.

This.
Probably only JQ Ops and tech staff know exactly when it became clear the aircraft would not be departing ASP yesterday.
The option to fly a LAME up from MEL on QF796 was likely gone by the time the tech fault declared itself, with remaining crew duty time also ticking away. So I am a bit surprised that the disembarkation was deferred for as long as it was.
Pretty sure a local plan exists - as others have noted, this isn’t ASP’s first diversion rodeo - but it did take longer to enact yesterday than I’d have expected in these circumstances. Especially when an ambulance spokesman subsequently told local media that paramedics and a doctor had assessed the well-being of the pax on board around midday.

 

[ANstar]

This was , after all , a LCC with questionable ethics.. arguably akin to a roulette wheel in terms of possible outcomes ( or non outcomes)
Folks pay their pennies and take their chances.. in this case a character building exercise with minimal impact on the public purse

Why is it an issues specific to Jetstar? The medical could of happened on any airline, they diverted to ASP as it was the closest and would of planned to take off straight away and continue on. What happened was the a/c subsequently went tech and the facilities couldn't handle it. Could of happened to any carrier.

 

[Warragul]

It's been a while since my passport was physically checked by a immigration agent while travelling internationally,

Putting a passport in Smartgate is counted as a physical check, the data on the chip is less alterable than the bio page.

 

[Pushka]

Why is it an issues specific to Jetstar? The medical could of happened on any airline, they diverted to ASP as it was the closest and would of planned to take off straight away and continue on. What happened was the a/c subsequently went tech and the facilities couldn't handle it. Could of happened to any carrier.

True. And would Qantas have done anything differently? Prolly not.

 

[Warragul]

That's an assumption. Smartphone cameras are quite advanced. Everything else is on the cloud.

That is true that hand luggage would normally be subject to customs. However, customs is a monetary issue. If you have observed the usual practice by customs officers, not everyone gets the customs and quarantine treatment. What's the $$$ pickup from a flight of 335 passengers in the context of a disrupted flight.

I've had several delayed/cancelled international flights where I arrived home before the luggage. The luggage was subsequently delivered. I was not required to be present for customs/quarantine inspection.

However all that is secondary to the airport having a plan for the management of passengers from a diverted international flight. In the first instance that involves timely disembarkation to a secure area.

None of the software with Smartgate is in the cloud (yet), years away if at all. Cameras not so much the issue as opposed to lighting/ background/ angle of camera(s) relative to face to enable satisfactory facial matching.

Around 2% of travellers are 'intervened' with by the Customs process and very little money in the scheme of things is collected. But more than enough prohibited/restricted items found in hand luggage and pockets of people.

Its funny what people have forgetten what's in their jacket pockets when I've asked them.

 

[jb747]

Yes, I didn't suggest anything else, the words "consult with in making such decisions" perhaps implies they would still have authority.

The decision on a diversion is made by the Captain. The medical people can say what they’d prefer, but the decision on what actually happens is made on aviation grounds, not medical. A simple example…the doctors might be keen on Darwin, but if it‘s in the middle of wet season thunderstorms, then that may make it unsuitable. Quite simply, you won’t place the aircraft at risk.

Captains are not medical doctors, I would be extremely surprised if they made a decision entirely on their own,, without any inputs from professionals, unless they had no mechanism to communicate with medical advisor. But I could be talking out of my backside , maybe one of our current or former captains could chime in with what inputs they take in making such a decision?

You might be surprised by the qualifications some pilots have, not that it’s relevant to this.

They will find the best advice they can. That might be Medlink (via satcom), or perhaps RFDS, or people on board the aircraft. And then you’ll weigh that against the aviation options. I recall dealing with the RFDS in Darwin one night (767, no satcom), and their advice was to take the person to Adelaide. They did not have the facilities needed, and would have ended up putting him on an RFDS aircraft and flying him to a southern capital. He was already in a much faster aircraft, heading in the right direction. I also recall flying past the nearest major airport with a patient in extremis, as the risk in going there far exceeded my risk threshold.

 

[jb747]

Or according to ATSB, should have happened ..

Engine failure involving Airbus A330, 9M-XXD, 445 km south-east of Alice Springs, South Australia, on 16 August 2016 | ATSB

www.atsb.gov.au

I was flying that night, and recall having a look at their data. There were so many red flags that it’s amazing they safely found the ground anywhere. And reading this report adds more fuel to what is already a large fire. But, of course, the standard reply on this forum is “I’ve flown with them, and they were okay”. They may not be the most dangerous airline of all, but they are working on it.

 

[moa999]

RE compensation, agreed but unless the government improves passenger rights for disruption then then nothing will change. Not to mention all the knock-on cancellations this has had.

While it might help improve some decision making.
It will also become a cost to airlines, which will just get added on to every ticket price.

It's not an easy thing to solve.
On busy nights cities (even big ones) may literally have no spare hotel rooms.

And it's not like EC261 has stopped passengers having issues, including having to sleep in the airport, in Europe.

 

[bPeteb]

What a wild thread. Someone has a medical emergency, a plane is diverted to a domestic airport, and people are agreeing that the passengers were being held hostage or 'detained'. I'm sure if JQ could have disembarked those passengers straight away they would have.

To everyone saying there should have been a plan who is they? Borderforce/immigration or JQ? If JQ are you saying that every international airline that flies over mainland Australia should have a plan for every domestic airport they fly over/near? How is that feasible?

If Borderforce, then all the suggestions of online processing have as much chance of happening as getting a redemption out of QR.

 

[Pushka]

What a wild thread. Someone has a medical emergency, a plane is diverted to a domestic airport, and people are agreeing that the passengers were being held hostage or 'detained'. I'm sure if JQ could have disembarked those passengers straight away they would have.

To everyone saying there should have been a plan who is they? Borderforce/immigration or JQ? If JQ are you saying that every international airline that flies over mainland Australia should have a plan for every domestic airport they fly over/near? How is that feasible?

If Borderforce, then all the suggestions of online processing have as much chance of happening as getting a redemption out of QR.

They were detained though. Regardless of the reason. They were not able to get off. I know I'd have problems. For the babies and aged onboard even a health risk once aircond shut down. Alice temps in mid thirties of late. They were eventually allowed off. So clearly it was an option. Just exercised late.

 

[justinbrett]

To everyone saying there should have been a plan who is they? Borderforce/immigration or JQ? If JQ are you saying that every international airline that flies over mainland Australia should have a plan for every domestic airport they fly over/near? How is that feasible?.

Jetstar in consultation with ASP airport.

The US requires this plan for their airlines.

Tarmac Delays | US Department of Transportation

What is a “Tarmac Delay”? A tarmac delay occurs when an airplane on the ground is either awaiting takeoff or has just landed and passengers do not have the opportunity to get off the plane.

www.transportation.gov