How to make enemies...! [by weighing carry-on]

[Austman]

If this statement is correct, weighing hand baggage would be the only way to reduce these injuries.

Those objects can apparently often be less than the current weight limits.

And I''ve seen it many times myself, the smaller perhaps 1kg or 2 kg objects move around and sometimes drop out when the bin is opened.

 

[Austman]

If carry-ons that fit in bins or under seats are not a problem, then why weigh them?

Well, many airlines don't. Including some of the safest airlines in the world.

Like I said, it's more company policy than proven safety.

 

[Pleb Status]

Those object can apparently often be less than the current weight limits.

And I''ve seen it many times myself, the smaller perhaps 1kg or 2 kg objects move around and sometimes drop out when the bin is opened.

But you would have to agree that a 1-2 kg small, odd shaped item would be a lot less dangerous than a 10kg small, odd shaped item (which you stated are the most dangerous).

Weighing is the only way these dangerous, small, odd shaped items can be detected...

 

[Austman]

a 10kg small, odd shaped item (which you stated are the most dangerous).

I'd say for a object to be small but also weigh10kg, it would have to be made from an unusual material ...

Apparently it's the instability of the objects and their shape that causes the problems. Picture frames, sporting goods and boxes seem to be the main offenders and cause the most injuries.

I'm referring to studies conducted by the Flight Safety Foundation by the way.

 

[Austman]

And I'm afraid this link now longer works. But it did when I posted it in 2015:

This study found that airline bins tend to "bulk out" (fill up) well before their weight capacity is reached. http://www.airsafetygroup.org/sites/default/files/CAA2.pdf​

The report noted that a CAA (UK) study over many years, thousands of flights and varying passenger behaviours, found that commercial aircraft overhead bin overloading was not a safety issue. The overhead bins tended to "bulk out" well before their load capacity was reached.

 

[Happy Trails]

I doubt too many very light, small, odd shaped items are the ones causing injuries. it would be the heavy, small, odd shaped items...

Such as floor tile samples, for example:

Singer 'Jui' injured by thoughtless plane passenger

Pop-folk singer Su "Jui" Boonlieng was injured on a flight to Koh Samui when a Chinese tourist rushed to open an overhead locker after the plane landed and floor-tile samples fell onto his head.

The tourist quickly left, leaving a dazed and bleeding Jui with a 2-inch cut on his head that required seven stitches. The owner of the tile samples, which weighed about 4kg, was standing nearby and rushed to apologise.



.

 

[Austman]

Such as floor tile samples, for example:

An odd shaped object. Only 4kg, so not overweight. Probably not oversize either. It looks a lot smaller than a legal maximum carry-on bag (it's quite thin) . Probably falls into the "box" category of items that cause injury.

 

[Pleb Status]

Such as floor tile samples, for example:

Singer 'Jui' injured by thoughtless plane passenger

Pop-folk singer Su "Jui" Boonlieng was injured on a flight to Koh Samui when a Chinese tourist rushed to open an overhead locker after the plane landed and floor-tile samples fell onto his head.

The tourist quickly left, leaving a dazed and bleeding Jui with a 2-inch cut on his head that required seven stitches. The owner of the tile samples, which weighed about 4kg, was standing nearby and rushed to apologise.
.

4kg was within the allowable limit. Imagine if the sample was overweight at 10kg....

But weight is not a safety problem according to the 'experts' here.

 

[Austman]

But weight is not the a safety problem according to the 'experts' here.

Expert reports in the aviation industry that is.

It's an example where a 4kg odd shaped object is likely to cause more injury than a 10kg legal size, purpose made, cabin bag, which is unlikely to simply fall out of an overhead bin. And even if it weighed just 2kg, an odd shaped object like that could still cause considerable injury.

Basing carry-on safety on weight alone isn't right.

 

[nutwood]

How is allowing a larger wheeled carry-on filled with light stuff while prohibiting a smaller wheeled carry-on filled with heavy stuff helpful? If you want to make space in the bin and speed up boarding, enforce a size limit. Weight and size are two different things.

I'm all in favour of a reduction in volume. When I have seen them weighing bags, the scales are at the bottom of the size cage so they are effectively checking volume at the same time.
My observation regarding simply checking in an over weight bag was a reflection on the time being wasted by staff having to weigh bags. Qantas has a size and weight limit for carry on. Like many rules, you might not agree with them and your reasons for not agreeing may be perfectly reasonable, but they are still the conditions of carriage to which you agreed to abide by when you purchased your fare. The only reason for the current enforcement is excessive flaunting of the restrictions. This impacts negatively on those who have always been careful to comply but whose boarding is also being delayed whilst staff waste time arguing with passengers with an excessive sense of entitlement.

 

[Pleb Status]

Expert reports in the aviation industry that is.

It's an example where a 4kg odd shaped object is likely to cause more injury than a 10kg legal size, purpose made, cabin bag, which is unlikely to simply fall out of an overhead bin. And even if it weighed just 2kg, an object like that could still cause considerable injury.

Basing carry-on safety on weight alone isn't right.

Force equals mass times acceleration. The lower the mass, the lower the force....

Unless you are going to introduce specific packaging requirements for every item brought onto an aircraft to ensure adequate impact absorbtion, the easiest way is to limit the overall mass of an item.

 

[Austman]

the easiest way is to limit the overall mass of the item.

The easiest way would be to ban them all together.

That isn't going to happen.

There has to be a reasonable upper weight limit. I think most agree. But when you fill an allowed size carry-on with ordinary things it often comes to over 7kg. Many airlines seem to operate safely with a 10kg limit. And safety studies seem to support them.

 

[nutwood]

The easiest way would be to ban them all together.

That isn't going to happen.

There has to be a reasonable upper weight limit. I think most agree. But when you fill an allowed size carry-on with ordinary things it often comes to over 7kg. Many airlines seem to operate safely with a 10kg limit. And safety studies seem to support them.

Surely the point is that the line has to be drawn somewhere? It's in human nature to push the boundaries, I'd be very interested to know if the airlines operating happily with a 10 kg limit, find that there are passengers with 12 kg bags?
May not be the case. I find in the NT that the 130 km/h limit is much more relaxing than the 100 km/h, or even 110 km/h elsewhere. I feel no need to travel at 130 km/h, so relax and drive comfortably at around 110 - 120 km/h. Perhaps 10 kg is the same. Most people won't go over it with a standard size wheelie?

 

[justinbrett]

Surely the point is that the line has to be drawn somewhere? It's in human nature to push the boundaries, I'd be very interested to know if the airlines operating happily with a 10 kg limit, find that there are passengers with 12 kg bags?
May not be the case. I find in the NT that the 130 km/h limit is much more relaxing than the 100 km/h, or even 110 km/h elsewhere. I feel no need to travel at 130 km/h, so relax and drive comfortably at around 110 - 120 km/h. Perhaps 10 kg is the same. Most people won't go over it with a standard size wheelie?

American Airlines don't even have a weight limit. If you can fit it within the volume limits, you're good to go.

British Airways was 23Kg per piece last time I checked. That means you could technically bring on 46Kg into the cabin if you could fit it within the volume limits (pretty unlikely).

I think the point here, is that if you bring a roller bag on, which weighs around 3Kg - it's not very hard to fill it with 4Kg worth of stuff (some laptops weigh more than that). These weight limits are just causing heartache for everyone for no apparent purpose.

 

[JohnK]

I've come to the conclusion that I'm in favour of the weighing. No enemy here! Recently, I'm finding it much easier to put my humble backpack in the lockers. Possibly coincidence?
Now they just have to sort out premium boarding...

More of the weighing please.

One of the last to board today's flight SYD-OOL in row 7 and no space in overhead above me. There were 6 shadows in rows 5-7 and the person in 6C had a bag above me on the D side. One person in row 5 had a rollerboard that looked as big as my 26" luggage.

 

[justinbrett]

More of the weighing please.

One of the last to board today's flight SYD-OOL in row 7 and no space in overhead above me. There were 6 shadows in rows 5-7 and the person in 6C had a bag above me on the D side. One person in row 5 had a rollerboard that looked as big as my 26" luggage.

So you want to stop the guy with the small 10Kg laptop bag but are fine with massive half empty bags taking up all the room?

Weight does not equal volume.

If space is the issue, use the sizer at the gate. Weighing bags won't help.

 

[nutwood]

So you want to stop the guy with the small 10Kg laptop bag but are fine with massive half empty bags taking up all the room?

Weight does not equal volume.

If space is the issue, use the sizer at the gate. Weighing bags won't help.

I don't think it's logical to view weight and volume as being completely dislocated from each other, although it's obviously possible to bring up examples either way.
Personally, I don't care how much weight others choose to lug about with them, but I'm very interested in overhead space. My observation has been that, since Qantas became more proactive in enforcing weight limits, I have found it easier to find space for my small backpack.
The logical conclusion is that active enforcement is encouraging people to either pack less, or check in oversize hand luggage.

 

[Pushka]

We’ve been tested using both volume and weight. Both needed to comply.

 

[nutwood]

We’ve been tested using both volume and weight. Both needed to comply.

Likewise here. Scale at the bottom of the sizing cage. Quick easy check, unless people argue.

 

[anabolism]

Likewise here. Scale at the bottom of the sizing cage. Quick easy check, unless people argue.

Except it's not quick, not easy. Weighing and sizing take time. Gate-checking takes time. And weight is a pointless thing to check. Better would be to eye bags, and size-check those that look iffy. That way it's only a few bags that need to be checked, and it directly addresses the issue of bin space and fairness (not letting one person take up the bin room of more than one person).