I am bringing back the BA access through paid Qantas club membership debate.

[medhead]

Bit surprised that such a claim can be made unless you have seen the contract in terms of dating and what was actually agreed?

Actually the results of the agreement between BA and QF are a matter for the public record since they are published as benefits of the program. As such the contract is not really required reading. We know that access was granted IAW the special arrangement between AA, BA and QF. The name of the BA lounge was changed and then access was no longer granted. QF never initially made an announcement to say that access to the lounge with the old name had been removed. I think it is entirely reasonable to infer that the contract didn't change and that BA got around the contract by changing the name of the lounge. Remember there was absolutely no announcement of a change for a number of months.

What has happened since then is a matter of conjecture. But I stand by my statement about what happened until the point that qantas (finally) realised there was a problem.




Sent from the Throne

 

[markis10]

Actually the results of the agreement between BA and QF are a matter for the public record since they are published as benefits of the program. As such the contract is not really required reading.

Given the QP terms and conditions allow variances at any time, I beg to differ, while commercial contracts often are for a set period as opposed to the ongoing nature of the QP program. Its quite possible that the contract ran its course and ended and the expectation of renewal from Qantas was unrealistic, who knows, the simple fact is we dont have both sides to the story and therefore dont have the facts, to say one party got around the agreement in an underhanded way without knowing the content of the agreement is ludicrous and judgemental in a prejudiced way. Kangaroo Court anybody???

 

[amaroo]

And the few that may smugly think "Oh good thats less crowding in the lounges" will have a nasty surprise themselves in the future when their status and access rights are under threat because QF and BA cannot get their s#%* together and operate like mature airline partners.

I agree.

However, from the outside it appears that BA know exactly what they want & how to go about delivering it!

 

[medhead]

Given the QP terms and conditions allow variances at any time, I beg to differ, while commercial contracts often are for a set period as opposed to the ongoing nature of the QP program. Its quite possible that the contract ran its course and ended and the expectation of renewal from Qantas was unrealistic, who knows, the simple fact is we dont have both sides to the story and therefore dont have the facts, to say one party got around the agreement in an underhanded way without knowing the content of the agreement is ludicrous and judgemental in a prejudiced way. Kangaroo Court anybody???

Why do you ignore what I wrote? The TandC might say they can be varied at any time. However the fact that qantas did not vary those T and C immediately that the change happened but took months to make any changes supports my position. If the contract did run its course, it is ludicrous to suggest that qantas would not have notified members ASAP. As for judgemental they are plenty of reports here of QC members being told words to the effect of you are allowed access to "old name" lounge, this is not "old name" lounge this is the "new name" lounge by BA staff members. Far from a kangaroo court I've made a reasonable assessment based on the public record. You're welcome to ignore the public record, but perhaps don't label other assessments as ludicrous and prejudiced because that is rather offensive really.


Sent from the Throne

 

[eastwest101]

...The TandC might say they can be varied at any time. However the fact that qantas did not vary those T and C immediately that the change happened but took months to make any changes supports my position.

Say ABC Barrista Co. has the contract to serve coffee's in an airline lounge, its a published benefit of the airline. Then ABC Barrista Co has a contract dispute with the airline and no coffee is served in the lounge. If the airline is continuing to publish "Free Barrista Coffee" as a benefit of membership then how is the airline not obligled to either inform members of the change or get another Barrista?

 

[Danger]

Say ABC Barrista Co. has the contract to serve coffee's in an airline lounge, its a published benefit of the airline. Then ABC Barrista Co has a contract dispute with the airline and no coffee is served in the lounge. If the airline is continuing to publish "Free Barrista Coffee" as a benefit of membership then how is the airline not obligled to either inform members of the change or get another Barrista?

A valid argument. However, the T&Cs of QFF specifically state that they can be varied at any time.

I think there are two keys issues here that upset people. First, Qantas's handling of the change in the way members were informed and, second, the 'rigged for silent running' approach where Qantas seems to be hoping it'll slip under the radar.

 

[medhead]

Say ABC Barrista Co. has the contract to serve coffee's in an airline lounge, its a published benefit of the airline. Then ABC Barrista Co has a contract dispute with the airline and no coffee is served in the lounge. If the airline is continuing to publish "Free Barrista Coffee" as a benefit of membership then how is the airline not obligled to either inform members of the change or get another Barrista?

I think that was sort of my point. I presume that since they didn't change the Terms that as far as QF were concerned the contract was still valid and in operation.

A valid argument. However, the T&Cs of QFF specifically state that they can be varied at any time.

I think there are two keys issues here that upset people. First, Qantas's handling of the change in the way members were informed and, second, the 'rigged for silent running' approach where Qantas seems to be hoping it'll slip under the radar.

Again no one is questioning the ability to change the T and Cs. (but it is also worth remembering that those terms also specify timely, immediate notification and give members some ability to cancel their membership when changes are made).

The other option that you are missing is that QF thought the contract was still in place, which could explain the lack of notification, 'silent running' approach and the poor response when they finally did inform members. (months after access was removed)


Sent from the Throne

 

[Danger]

I think that was sort of my point. I presume that since they didn't change the Terms that as far as QF were concerned the contract was still valid and in operation.



Again no one is questioning the ability to change the T and Cs. (but it is also worth remembering that those terms also specify timely, immediate notification and give members some ability to cancel their membership when changes are made).

The other option that you are missing is that QF thought the contract was still in place, which could explain the lack of notification, 'silent running' approach and the poor response when they finally did inform members. (months after access was removed)


Sent from the Throne

I'm on your side!

My 'silent running' approach refers to my wonder as to whether Qantas simply put 'we're working with BA' many, many weeks ago, do nothing and then just one day remove the footnote text and pretend everything's good.

 

[medhead]

I'm on your side!

My 'silent running' approach refers to my wonder as to whether Qantas simply put 'we're working with BA' many, many weeks ago, do nothing and then just one day remove the footnote text and pretend everything's good.

Cross purposes my mistake. I was thinking of the initial silent running were nothing had changed from the qantas end but people were being denied access. so October last year?


Sent from the Throne

 

[JohnPhelan]

• Previously if you had paid Qantas club membership you could access any BA lounge in the world if flying BA or Qantas.
• Now you can't, apart from some exceptions such as connections into LHR from OZ flights or LHR T3 to Asia coming back to OZ.
• The Qantas lounge access page still has this comment on it. "Qantas Club Members travelling between Australia and the UK via Singapore, Bangkok and Hong Kong on Qantas or British Airways services, or travelling on other British Airways flights connecting with these services, can access the British Airways Terrace, Executive and Galleries Lounges. Access to the British Airways Lounge in New York is also available for Qantas Club Members travelling on the QF108. We are currently working with British Airways on the recent changes to their lounge access policy".

What the QF website says is correct, for the situation as it currently exists. You do get access at LHR and European ports if you are connecting through LHR to/from Europe, as jojen notes in post #9. And also at JFK if travelling on QF108.

I agree the whole thing has been a BA-inspired mess, but the QF website is now accurate.

 

[Batesy]

What the QF website says is correct, for the situation as it currently exists. You do get access at LHR and European ports if you are connecting through LHR to/from Europe, as jojen notes in post #9. And also at JFK if travelling on QF108.

I agree the whole thing has been a BA-inspired mess, but the QF website is now accurate.

Not disputing that what is on the QF page is currently accurate. My point is previously I could fly from EDI from LHR or LHR to JFK with BA with no connection of any kind access the BA lounge. Now I can't. The paid QC product is devalued and there is no resolution to the access changes.

 

[dalereardon]

Hi people,

A new forum member and I have come across this thread but having done a lot of Googling I am still not clear on the situation. I just rang Qantas Club and got an incredibly hopeless person who knew nothing about the BA problems and tried to tell me that QC members have access to all BA lounges. I really got no satisfactory answer so asking here.

I am travelling Sydney to London Heathrow next May returning at the end of June with BA in premium economy. By then BA will be using T5 at Heathrow for the Sydney London via Singapore flights.

There is no Executive Club lounge at T5. I am only a bronze level member.

I am considering joining QC if it gets me access to the BA lounges in Heathrow. I am flying onto Venice (connecting straight away with about a 4 hour layover in London).

Will I be able to get access to the BA lounge in T5 if I join QC?

Also what is the situation in Singapore on transit? Do you get access to Qantas lounge when travelling with BA or you get access to the BA lounge in Singapore?

Thanks,
Dale.

 

[eastwest101]

I am travelling Sydney to London Heathrow next May returning at the end of June with BA in premium economy. By then BA will be using T5 at Heathrow for the Sydney London via Singapore flights.

There is no Executive Club lounge at T5. I am only a bronze level member.

I am considering joining QC if it gets me access to the BA lounges in Heathrow. I am flying onto Venice (connecting straight away with about a 4 hour layover in London).

Will I be able to get access to the BA lounge in T5 if I join QC?

Also what is the situation in Singapore on transit? Do you get access to Qantas lounge when travelling with BA or you get access to the BA lounge in Singapore?

Thanks,
Dale.

Maybe buy the QC membership by credit card and screen capture every T&C on the QC and QF websites that you can. Take hard copies with you, try to get in and use hard copies. If you are denied access, do a chargeback on your credit card for "services paid for but not provided". It will take someone to do this to light a fire underneath someone in BA/QF to actually do something. Its a big hassle - but someone will have to do it eventually.

I am not sure about Singapore - other will know.

 

[moa999]

daleardon, The Exec Lounge distinction has now disappeared. You now get Galleries access under limited circumstances.

The Qantas Club page presently says this:

Qantas Club Members travelling between Australia and the UK via Singapore, Bangkok and Hong Kong on Qantas or British Airways services, or travelling on other British Airways flights connecting with these services, can access the British Airways Terrace, Executive and Galleries Lounges. Access to the British Airways Lounge in New York is also available for Qantas Club Members travelling on the QF108. We are currently working with British Airways on the recent changes to their lounge access policy.

Eligibility and Access to The Qantas Club lounges

Thus at present you would get access to:
Qantas Business Lounge at SIN - by virtue of QC travelling on QA/BA/JQ/3K
BA Galleries at LHR - via the Partner Lounge QC access for Aus/UK connections

HOWEVER
As part of the proposed QF/EK alignment, it has been announced that the QF/BA JSA will be terminated on 31 Mar 2013

It would thus not surprise me if this benefit (which applies pretty much over the JSA routes) will also disappear.


Please note the Qantas Club rules:
The Qantas Club Terms & Conditions
particularly clause 4

 

[eastwest101]

Thus at present you would get access to:
Qantas Business Lounge at SIN - by virtue of QC travelling on QA/BA/JQ/3K
BA Galleries at LHR - via the Partner Lounge QC access for Aus/UK connections

HOWEVER
As part of the proposed QF/EK alignment, it has been announced that the QF/BA JSA will be terminated on 31 Mar 2013

It would thus not surprise me if this benefit (which applies pretty much over the JSA routes) will also disappear.


Please note the Qantas Club rules:
The Qantas Club Terms & Conditions
particularly clause 4

Moa999 - thanks for that information - very helpful. Sounds like daleardon has already booked the BA flights. The termination date of the JSA will be crucial - given a 3 month notification period I would guess that there will be some changes to the Qantas Club T&C around 31st Dec 2012?

 

[ajw373]

Hi people,

A new forum member and I have come across this thread but having done a lot of Googling I am still not clear on the situation. I just rang Qantas Club and got an incredibly hopeless person who knew nothing about the BA problems and tried to tell me that QC members have access to all BA lounges. I really got no satisfactory answer so asking here.

I am travelling Sydney to London Heathrow next May returning at the end of June with BA in premium economy. By then BA will be using T5 at Heathrow for the Sydney London via Singapore flights.

There is no Executive Club lounge at T5. I am only a bronze level member.

I am considering joining QC if it gets me access to the BA lounges in Heathrow. I am flying onto Venice (connecting straight away with about a 4 hour layover in London).

Will I be able to get access to the BA lounge in T5 if I join QC?

Also what is the situation in Singapore on transit? Do you get access to Qantas lounge when travelling with BA or you get access to the BA lounge in Singapore?

Thanks,
Dale.

Personally I wouldn't waste my money on Qantas club for the flights you have mentioned. For the cost of club membership you could well pay for a decent meal and a few drinks in Singapore and London, and its not like the lounges you would have access to are special in any way shape or form, nor are they that quiet. So don't see the benefit really.

 

[dalereardon]

Thanks heaps for that info. I will wait and see what happens with changes post Emirates going final.

Getting a seat, food and a shower are the perks that after really.

And yes have booked the flights already - BA was doing a super special where got premium for the same price as standard economy - only lasted a few days - just after they announced the upgrade of the plane on the route so guess they had a few seats they wanted to fill.

Hopefully there will be nice arrangements with Emirates at least while both sides are in love with each other at the start of a partnership!

Dale.

 

[Mwenenzi]

dalereardon Welcome to the forum

If you do decide to join QF club these threads may of interest
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....lyer-program/qantas-club-questions-43914.html (go to last posts)
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....es/save-200-qantas-club-membership-10788.html

But for 1 return flight not worth it as posted above. If you do a lot of QF flying then is different

 

[simongr]

Getting a seat, food and a shower are the perks that after really.

Dale.

If this is a one off then I would definitely NOT get QP membership.

Ex-SYD you can eat in the decent restaurants and mill around for a while. I assume you are coming from home so no need to shower.
Ex-LHR similar thing - decent food and busy terminal but a fair few seats. Again I assume you will be coming from somewhere that doesn't require a shower at the airport.
Transit in SIN - the lounges there are being refurbished but the exact structure is unknown - we don't know if there will be a joint BA/QF Biz lounge or a BA F lounge. What we do know is that in PE you are off the aircraft after F and J so you will already be behind in the queue to get a shower...

 

[k_sheep]

Also showers are available cheaply at SIN. Not sure about LHR or SYD.