I choose not to fly via Dubai. OK, but why ???

[browski]

Thanks markis10- well in that case in response to the original question posed (I choose not to fly via Dubai. OK, but why ???), I choose not fly via Dubai because of it anti-gay and anti-semitic policies.

Ahhhh they may be anti-Israeli but they are certainly not anti-semitic. Probably best you learn who are the semitic peoples.

 

[gmartin010]

Ahhhh they may be anti-Israeli but they are certainly not anti-semitic. Probably best you learn who are the semitic peoples.

Apologies I should refer to it as an anti-jewish policy. The anti-zionist policy has over flowed into a clear anti-jewish feeling in the state. There is plenty of evidence of this with my policies on academics and Jewish literature being completely banned. It would be naive to say that a Jew is welcome in the UAE.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Apologies I should refer to it as an anti-jewish policy. The anti-zionist policy has over flowed into a clear anti-jewish feeling in the state. There is plenty of evidence of this with my policies on academics and Jewish literature being completely banned. It would be naive to say that a Jew is welcome in the UAE.

But they are welcome.. In fact, if you are an Jewish Australian citizen, travelling on an Australian passport, how would they even identify you as a Jew?

 

[gmartin010]

But they are welcome.. In fact, if you are an Jewish Australian citizen, travelling on an Australian passport, how would they even identify you as a Jew?

SeatBackForward- I see your point but I dont think it is the crux of the problem. My name does not sound Jewish so I probably wouldnt have a problem but I do have multiple Israeli passport stamps which which identify me which may cause an issue. Indeed I have several firends that have recently flown through there and have been stopped and pulled into rooms for questioning on their intentions in entering the UAE. The point is that as a Jew I find this anti-jewish sentiment discriminatory and as such I wont travel through there. There are many Golf courses in Australia for example that dont allow Jewish members and even though I could get away with playing there, I wouldnt simply because of this policy.

 

[SeatBackForward]

SeatBackForward- I see your point but I dont think it is the crux of the problem. My name does not sound Jewish so I probably wouldnt have a problem but I do have multiple Israeli passport stamps which which identify me which may cause an issue. Indeed I have several firends that have recently flown through there and have been stopped and pulled into rooms for questioning on their intentions in entering the UAE. The point is that as a Jew I find this anti-jewish sentiment discriminatory and as such I wont travel through there. There are many Golf courses in Australia for example that dont allow Jewish members and even though I could get away with playing there, I wouldnt simply because of this policy.

But where exactly is the anti-Jewish sentiment? Substantiate you argument. Your friends may have been pulled aside for any number of reasons, others have posted here about being pulled aside without any indication it was on suspicion of being Jewish.

That golf course seems to be more explicitly anti-Jewish than the UAE is!

 

[markis10]

But where exactly is the anti-Jewish sentiment? Substantiate you argument. Your friends may have been pulled aside for any number of reasons, others have posted here about being pulled aside without any indication it was on suspicion of being Jewish.

That golf course seems to be more explicitly anti-Jewish than the UAE is!

Its actually been policy since the 2010 murder of a Hamas officer in Dubai at the airport hotel. I suspect if they feel your jewish you will be pulled aside to verify your not a citizen of Israel regardless of passport in use.

Dubai cracks down on Israelis after killing of Hamas operative

Dubai police chief bars all suspected Israelis entering UAE | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

[SeatBackForward]

Its actually been policy since the 2010 murder of a Hamas officer in Dubai at the airport hotel. I suspect if they feel your jewish you will be pulled aside to verify your not a citizen of Israel regardless of passport in use.

Dubai cracks down on Israelis after killing of Hamas operative

Dubai police chief bars all suspected Israelis entering UAE | World news | guardian.co.uk

But what exactly is the policy? to try to identify suspected Israelis? I'm not sure I could define what an Israeli would look like. Actually I don't base what someone looks like as the basis for anything anymore. The world is too global today, let alone how historically, most of it has been a melting pot anyhow...

 

[Jack_OC]

Bearing in mind those Mossad agents allegedly used forged Australian passports to enter Dubai and carry out an assassination, it hardly counts as religious discrimination if that has prompted a bit more scrutiny with a view to preventing the same thing happening again. Passport control is there for a reason.

But yes, if I had a load of Israeli stamps in my passport I'd be inclined to avoid the UAE - just as I'd probably avoid Israel if I was Muslim and/or had stamps indicating I regularly visited Arab countries.

 

[markis10]

But what exactly is the policy? to try to identify suspected Israelis? I'm not sure I could define what an Israeli would look like. Actually I don't base what someone looks like as the basis for anything anymore. The world is too global today, let alone how historically, most of it has been a melting pot anyhow...

Yes exactly that, its clear in the links if you read them:

That window closed a bit on Monday as Dubai officials -- angered about the killing of a Hamas operative, which they blame on Israeli undercover agents -- said they would now be on the lookout for Israelis, regardless of what travel documents they hold. Gen. Khalfan Tamim, the emirate's police chief, told reporters at a security conference that "among the things we will train our people [to do] is to identify Israeli names, accents as well as features."

Not helped by the fact some of the suspects are believed to have been travelling on some Aussie passports (forged/fake).

 

[gmartin010]

But where exactly is the anti-Jewish sentiment? Substantiate you argument. Your friends may have been pulled aside for any number of reasons, others have posted here about being pulled aside without any indication it was on suspicion of being Jewish.

That golf course seems to be more explicitly anti-Jewish than the UAE is!

Whereas I dont subscribe to Wikipedia as being the definitive argument, I do know the following extract taken from Wikipedia is true:

[h=2]Attitudes to Jews in recent history[/h] In recent years the United Arab Emirates has adopted an anti-semitic policy toward Jewish academics and authors from other countries who come to visit it. A Jewish Telegraphic Agency report in 1999 stated that: "A British university has banned Jewish authors from its courses at its campus in the United Arab Emirates. The University of Lincolnshire and Humberside has confirmed that books by Jews, as well as those that mention Jews in their bibliographies, are banned by its affiliate in the Persian Gulf state. In addition, the British Council, a state-run organization designed to promote British cultural achievements abroad, also conceded that it acquiesces in the censorship of works by Jews to accommodate "local political, religious or moral publishing laws."

 

[SeatBackForward]

Whereas I dont subscribe to Wikipedia as being the definitive argument, I do know the following extract taken from Wikipedia is true:

Attitudes to Jews in recent history

In recent years the United Arab Emirates has adopted an anti-semitic policy toward Jewish academics and authors from other countries who come to visit it. A Jewish Telegraphic Agency report in 1999 stated that: "A British university has banned Jewish authors from its courses at its campus in the United Arab Emirates. The University of Lincolnshire and Humberside has confirmed that books by Jews, as well as those that mention Jews in their bibliographies, are banned by its affiliate in the Persian Gulf state. In addition, the British Council, a state-run organization designed to promote British cultural achievements abroad, also conceded that it acquiesces in the censorship of works by Jews to accommodate "local political, religious or moral publishing laws."

Not a single mention of Israel in there.

 

[gmartin010]

Not a single mention of Israel in there.

Whic is worrying because it seems to single out academics and literature written by authors based solely on their religion as opposed to their nationality. This is why I will not travel through there. Markis10 raises some very interesting points about the passport issue though.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Whic is worrying because it seems to single out academics and literature written by authors based solely on their religion as opposed to their nationality. This is why I will not travel through there. Markis10 raises some very interesting points about the passport issue though.

Again, I think you're missing the point. The UAE has no explicit policy against Jews. It *does* have an explicit policy against Israelis, by Israel being a nation state.

Is being Israeli the sole basis for being Jewish?

 

[medhead]

Thanks markis10- well in that case in response to the original question posed (I choose not to fly via Dubai. OK, but why ???), I choose not fly via Dubai because of it anti-gay and anti-semitic policies.

It is not an anti-Semitic policy. Anyone of any religion travelling on an Israeli passport faces the same restriction.

You might have also missed the little fact that lots of Christians and, no doubt, Muslims visit the holy lands every year. They all must have Israeli entry stamps. Any ban on Israeli passports or pulling aside for those who have entered Israel is about the country not the religion.

 

[drron]

Not a single mention of Israel in there.

Which means from the quotation you gave in post 122 that it is then an anti-semitic policy doesn't it?

 

[gmartin010]

Again, I think you're missing the point. The UAE has no explicit policy against Jews. It *does* have an explicit policy against Israelis, by Israel being a nation state.

Is being Israeli is the sole basis for being Jewish?

I believe that there is a specific policy against academics (of which I am one) and literature of authors (of which I am one) of the Jewish religion. I also believe that the anti-zionist polcy of the UAE government as it does in many other countries overflows into an anti-jewish feeling as experienced by many of my colleagues and friends with Jewish sounding names. It is inherent in the UAE as it is in Saudi. It is for these reasons that I feel no need to travel there (going back to the original question posed).

 

[medhead]

Which means from the quotation you gave in post 122 that it is then an anti-semitic policy doesn't it?

Well, I, or anyone, can always fix that by logging in and editing the page. Wikipedia pages like that require a big grain of salt as a lot of it can be related to author bias or interpretation. Wikipedia is good for getting facts, that are referenced. Not so good for opinions.

Looking at the quote itself. It references a Jewish report from an organisation that holds which views? It then supports its claim by referring to a single British university and the ban that the British university has put in place. Then we find that a publisher restricts its publications sold in various countries. Hardly ground breaking news.

 

[vbap]

I hope this thread doesn't end up anti-semantic...

 

[SeatBackForward]

Which means from the quotation you gave in post 122 that it is then an anti-semitic policy doesn't it?

No. It just re-inforces that anti-semitism applies in reference to Jews and not to Israel.

 

[SeatBackForward]

I believe that there is a specific policy against academics (of which I am one) and literature of authors (of which I am one) of the Jewish religion. I also believe that the anti-zionist polcy of the UAE government as it does in many other countries overflows into an anti-jewish feeling as experienced by many of my colleagues and friends with Jewish sounding names. It is inherent in the UAE as it is in Saudi. It is for these reasons that I feel no need to travel there (going back to the original question posed).

Ok I clearly need a pole longer than 10 feet to touch this post. So I'll shut up now.