I will NEVER fly Singapore Airlines again

[Travel Guru]

I am just publicising the horrendous service I received from what many people perceive is the premier customer service airline. It's not.

Hi Jobu,

I completely sympathise with you, the way you were treated by ground crew while not being unusual for other airlines seems unusual for SQ and was unacceptable.

SQ's response regarding your complaint could definately have been handled better, and I'll be emailing the BNE SQ Manager who I know (I own an agency) to let him know this type of response isn't acceptable to an agent or a passenger.

I'd have to disagree with you though about them not being a premier service airline....sure it wasn't handled well, but even the best companies have bad days or poor staff selection, but it doesnt make the whole company bad, it happens, and I still believe SQ is the best airline in the world bar none.

I hope you have more success with whoever you fly next time.

All the best
TG

 

[NM]

I'd have to disagree with you though about them not being a premier service airline....sure it wasn't handled well, but even the best companies have bad days or poor staff selection, but it doesnt make the whole company bad, it happens, and I still believe SQ is the best airline in the world bar none.

I am sure a quick search of the internet (especially sites like AFF and FT) will reveal similar customer complains about poor and unacceptable service from almost every major airline. And for every poor experience, there will be reports of good experiences.

However, Jobu has had his view of SQ severely tainted by this experience and it seems like he plans to follow through on his threat to boycott the company. Good on you. I would do the same if I experienced what you have reported.

But as I did not experience the same things, I will take this report in combination with other things I read and hear about SQ when forming my own opinion of the airline.

 

[Platy]

I must say that I do think there is something particularly personally insulting about being ignored by a customer service person.

It happened to me in a coughtail bar attached to a restaurant in Cairns two weeks ago (the barman spent 15 minutes serving coughtails to the only other 5 people in the bar right in front of me and left me sitting as the only person on one of the bar stool all that time without even acknowledging my presence). Half an hour later, when my "date" arrived the barman had completely disappeared - after another 10 minutes I went downstairs to the restaurant and spoke politely to the maitre-d and pointed out that they now had 10 customers waiting for drinks upstairs and was told that they had pulled the barman downstairs because it was so busy in the restaurant area. Ten minutes later and still no service so we upped and left and ate at Tides (Shangri-La) and were treated most professionally. It turned out they had closed the upstairs bar and not bothered to tell the customers in it - on the way out we had to dodge the barrier stopping new customers going upstairs! When I said we were leaving and to cancel then table booking, they didn't give a rats, even when I very gently suggested an apology might be in order. I will henceforth avoid eating at Mangostins on the Esplanade Cairns and urge all others to do likewise.

If check in staff ignored me I would be extremely disappointed to say the least!

I think SQs behaviour in the case cited is absolutely atrocious on all counts.

If you are paying for a full service airline you expect full service. That includes checking in at your convenience up to the cut off time. Suggestions of cutting it fine are misplaced IMHO.

Basic customer service is hardly rocket science, is it?

That the OZ manager was disrespectful as well suggests the problems at SQ are NOT confined to just one or two individuals either...(IMHO)

Some SQ cabin crew for that matter apparently performed woefully at the Taipei crash...but that's another story

 

[Arthur Hodgson]

I must admit that I have found SQ's service to be quite inconsistent. When it's good it's good, and when it's bad it can be very bad. Certainly I think the airline is overrated.

I had a couple of flights last month in business class, DPS-SIN and SIN-BKK. The first flight, on a 772 was wonderful, with very nice, attentive service and a generally pleasant ambience to the flight. In part I guess this was due to the fact that the flight was not full.

The connecting flight to BKK on a 773 was just the opposite. Packed in C, flight attendants flustered and just throwing stuff at pax, etc, etc.

My attitude towards SQ these days is that if their fare is competitive and the timings are OK, I will book with them, otherwise, I wouldn't go out of my way to pay a premium just to ride SQ. And their service in Y is just downright ordinary, worse than QF IMHO.

Just my 2 bob's worth...

 

[Travel Guru]

Basic customer service is hardly rocket science, is it?

As they say, the problem with common sense is that it's not all that common.

TG

 

[Platy]

As they say, the problem with common sense is that it's not all that common.

TG

...as they also say, never a truer word...

 

[pauly7]

Did Jobu and his wife do something wrong? I don't think so. Check-in closes 40 minutes before the flight is due to depart and they were there 50 minutes before the flight is due to depart. That is well inside the check-in closing time so I would not be calling it cutting it fine. They went from counter to counter and did not get served and to make it worse the flight left 20 minutes late anyway.

....

I agree with you, sounds like in this instance SQ is taking a page from JQ/DJ!

 

[straitman]

Thanks for that Bill, you're doing a great job critiquing my posts lately.

TG

Travel Guru,

You're welcome :!:

It just shows that I actually read your posts :!:

 

[pksw]

Sorry to hear that the OP was treated so badly. But I cannot understand the purpose of writing the complaint letter 6 months later, apart from letting off some steam.

I know you were busy, but if you were fuming for 6 months, it would have been better for your anger to write the letter straight away, rather than stewing over it for months.

There is no excuse for what the airline did to you. However, after 6 months, it sounds like you'd already decided never to fly with them again, so they have not wasted any resources looking in to it further, after you swore at the Australian manager who called you.

Every major company will have a fair share of complaints and compliments. You've just got to hope that you aren't one that is at the wrong end of service like the OP was.

 

[bambbbam2]

A friend of mine ate a very swish restaurant a few years ago. At the end of the meal, he asked for the bill. After 10 minutes he asked for the bill again.

After another 10 minutes he asked again and when it still didn't arrive in another 10 minutes, he and his companions simply walked out. No-one stopped them. Some businesses only get the message when the bottom line feels it.

 

[ethernet]

This practice is WIDESPREAD.
The cause is outsourcing, and the keyword you want is either KPI or SLA.
There is a HUGE tempation to close the counters early, so they can run with the 'chit' or packing list on time - package, sardine tin, or pax - you are all the same. And if the SLA says 98% - on a plane of 300 odd, that means 6 passengers can be shafted with relative safety.

I noticed VN airport is outsourced, to a service provider. In cutting staff numbers to the bone, the counter chicks have tight and demanding schedules, with no allowance to 'finish up'. So they get revenge, by closing a tad early, so they do manage it - on average.

Any initiative, like a helper, asking if anyone in the queue 5 minutes before the flight closes - dreads the family of 14 yelling back - yeah, us. As an outsourcer, you can play or fiddle with the word close - is it refuse to serve, or refuse to serve the football team that surely will go over. If you bribe/ pay off the liason manager, the airline has buckleys of finding out.

Anyone who has outsourced, should know the importance of spot checks, and audits - sort of like computer help desk service levels, that only log problems, not fix them, and certainly not investigate down to the root cause.
And if you are a big airline, often you CANT afford to piss off the 'system', as they can cost you dearly, should they choose.

This way everybody is happy. Service provider, take a cuts, no matter how badly they deliver. Airport collects it fees and taxes, Airlines think they have a good deal - while the passengers are 're-educated' that they better arrive 2 hours early. Scheech - Imagine how bogstar chicks feel about applying 'policy'. Except intelligent passengers who know they are being diddled, and occasionally, flat out cheated - btw the outsourcing staff are cheated too - not paid for login/logout, and expected to work early and late.

So what Sg needs to do is to run a sting operation at the counter, with a few 'dummy' latecomers, to find out the real story.

In the meantime, I hope a few platinum members will write pointed letters, demanding to know, why , say QF's baggage checking lines (post electronic checkin), is 55-60 minutes long.

Be afraid. QA/Efficiency experts, who tell it as it is, don't last long, relative to the liar, who sends in a report full of 'green traffic lights'. The game sours, when HO gets letters that scream 'red light'. That is why PR consultants are overpaid - to ensure unfavorable press does not get out.

Never say Never. PS want revenge? Hand out 6 bright badges with ISO 2001 and those tick logos, 6 clipboards, 6 stopwatchs, and have gang take notes- then watch counters 'magically open'. Not quite as bad as British hospitals that employed more doctors and nurses during 'inspection rating periods'. There are statistics, statistics and dammed lies.

 

[garyjohn951]

A friend of mine ate a very swish restaurant a few years ago. At the end of the meal, he asked for the bill. After 10 minutes he asked for the bill again.

After another 10 minutes he asked again and when it still didn't arrive in another 10 minutes, he and his companions simply walked out. No-one stopped them. Some businesses only get the message when the bottom line feels it.

Same thing happened to me six months ago, 4 of us to a top sydney beach rest. Had asked for the bill 4 times, over a 45 min period. I finally said to the other couple I think it will be $XX, so he gave me half and we go up and as we went out I placed in on the counter, the MD starred and I said we asked for the bill 4 times without luck, so here is our estimate and walked out.

We chated outside for a few minutes and as I proceeded last into the car the MD came out and said we were $10 short. I just closed the door and my wife drove off.

 

[Jobu]

There is no excuse for what the airline did to you. However, after 6 months, it sounds like you'd already decided never to fly with them again, so they have not wasted any resources looking in to it further, after you swore at the Australian manager who called you.

Just to clarify - I didn't swear at the Australian manager (although I definitely felt like doing it, I'm not that bad). It may have sounded like I did in my post but I told him in no uncertain terms that I was not impressed. He was clearly calling me as a matter of protocol and not because he gave a damn. He even had his secretary call me and put me on hold until he was available to talk - which seemed odd to me for a call of this nature.

I didn't write the complaint to get a response. That was not my reason for posting here - someone just asked if I got a response and I said no.

I didn't go into how I was treated when I left the counter and went to Singapore Air's office. Nor how the supervisor on the following day (a completely different supervisor) was almost as pathetic, accusing me again of missing my flight due to me being late and refusing to confirm my connecting flight, citing that he did not have the authority, and when I asked who has the authority, kept on responding that he was in charge. I used my mobile to call Singapore's head office in Singapore directly and got confirmed, after which they requested to talk to the supervisor and told him off...

I know many of you will reserve judgement for yourselves about Singapore Air. Many people I have told have been truly surprised by my experience, which is obviously a good thing for Singapore Air. But needless to say, I will stick to my guns and will continue to tell everyone I know about my experiences and I will convince a few on the way. Many people I know come to me for travel advice just because they know I happen to travel alot, and several have taken my advice and have chosen not to fly with Singapore again. Just as much as I take peoples' advice when they strongly recommend not to eat at a particular restaurant. Yes, a drop in the ocean for huge companies such as Singapore, but we have to start somewhere.

Cheers,

JOBU

 

[austrider]

Jobu,

Sorry to hear the bad treatment you've received - if it was me I'd be hopping mad as well.

I've flown SQ regularly over the years (mainly MEL-SIN-TPE) and never had any problem. I really suspect the problem is localised - i.e. the outsourcer at VN. Not that they shouldn't close 10 minutes early (because they are all under pressure, and under paid etc as per ethernet said), but due to poor customer service on how the handle those customers affected by closing 10 minutes early.

Similarily, the AU mgr's attitude did not help.

Thanks for the post and now I know to watch out for VN ground staff next time.

 

[pksw]

Just to clarify - I didn't swear at the Australian manager (although I definitely felt like doing it, I'm not that bad). It may have sounded like I did in my post but I told him in no uncertain terms that I was

Sorry, I got the wrong impression when you said you told him you "didn't give a #@% whether he investigated it or not".

I hate the way secretaries ring, and put YOU on hold. When that happens to me, I just hang up. If someone really wants to speak to me, they can have the courtesy to call themselves, and not have me hold.

You are clearly in the right - you got to the airport prior to the advised time, and they refused to serve you, and let you board. The least the manager at the airport could have done is acknowledge they stuffed up.

In my experience, it's often not the initial mistake that gets people fired up, but the way the complaint is handled. Admitting an error, and apologising works with most reasonable people. They should have done that.

 

[kpc]

I hate the way secretaries ring, and put YOU on hold. When that happens to me, I just hang up. If someone really wants to speak to me, they can have the courtesy to call themselves, and not have me hold.

This has to be one of my greatrest peeves:evil:...I might start doing what you do:idea:

 

[mabunji]

I know many of you will reserve judgement for yourselves about Singapore Air. Many people I have told have been truly surprised by my experience, which is obviously a good thing for Singapore Air. But needless to say, I will stick to my guns and will continue to tell everyone I know about my experiences....

JOBU

Thanks Jobu – Terrific - Happy to stand at the front of the queue of the cynics

I have re-read your letter of complaint, and your subsequent posts to this forum. I am still mightily confused on a number of points.

I am still struggling to understand what possible reason staff at SGN had to treat you in such a shabby way. Have you formed an opinion on the subject ?. Do you believe it is a systemic problem with staff at this location ?. Do you believe you were singled out for such appalling treatment, and if so why ?.

SQ are operating 17 flights a week out of SGN on 777-200’s, (roughly 255,000 to 285,000 seats a year) . Similar to Qantas, SQ are averaging around 80% seat occupancy – i.e. SQ is most likely flying around 204,000 to 228,000 passengers on this route. Let’s assume that there is a systemic problem at SGN and that (say) 1% of passengers are being brutalised by Hoang and his team – we’re looking at 2,000 plus seriously unhappy passengers a year. I don’t believe you can hide this level of discontent – did they all choose not to ’make a fuss’, or wait 6 months before sticking a letter in the post ?.

I’m still not entirely happy at the six month delay in lodging a complaint with SIA. I understand that you had work commitments and were flat out. If it was me I would have been drafting a letter of complaint on the flight out of SGN, …. or while waiting for the connection in SIN, …. or on the flight back to Australia (basically while the details were fresh in my mind). If I didn’t have a laptop at hand I would have been writing longhand – it would have been a simple typing exercise to transfer the longhand doc into a Microsoft Word (20 – 25 minutes ?), and if I was still stuggling to find that 20 – 25 minutes over a period of 6 months I think I would have sent the letter of complaint off in the clumsy, smudgy longhand format regardless. Six months does seem extreme to me.

This was a flight taken with your wife – I understand you were flat chat for 6 months and were struggling to find the time to formulate your thoughts – is this also true of your wife? You were both mistreated in a horrible way – and both of you are in a position to lodge a letter of complaint. I apologise if this is an indelicate question, but is there a reason why your wife could not have done this? - a complaint from either of you would have carried equal weight.

In the very, very broadest of terms do you understand the difficulty of attempting to resolve a complaint six months after the event has elapsed ?. I think this basically goes to the heart of your secondary grievance against staff in Australia. If you had presented your complaint in a timely manner it would still have come down to your word against the staff in SGN. After 6 months? forget it. You claim there was ‘another passenger from Perth’ in the queue behind who could vouch for you being on time – great – did you get his/her details? – it would go a long way to giving your complaint some credibility. Again, you were required to phone Singapore to get your flights confirmed – the SIA staff in Singapore apparently spoke to staff in SGN and ‘told them off’. Terrific – this again gives you some credibility in your complaint. Referring back to your letter I am not seeing any mention of this – did you get their name to include in the complaint? Mate, you’re not doing yourself any favours here.

I understand that you are filthy on Singapore Airlines. Fair Enough. What was your purpose in writing a letter of complaint? What did you hope to achieve?. What could SIA ever have done to satisfy your complaints ?. When the Sydney based manager phoned (assuming that he had dialed the number himself, adopted the tone of voice you were expecting , and correcting whatever else he did on this occasion to aggrevate you) – what was he required to deliver to make you happy ?. Were you looking for a financial settlement ? Were you looking for disciplinary action against the supervisor and other staff ?. It is not clear from your posts what you were expecting from lodging a complaint. What would have made you happy?

I don’t know whether you have a legitimate complaint against Singapore Airlines – all we have is a seriously one-sided complaint with a number of unresolved issues (and SIA and the staff in SGN do not get the right of reply in this forum).

What happened on that day in SGN? Is there a conspiracy between SIA management and SGN staff or is it a simple cough Up?. My money favours the cough Up theory. The way that you pursued this complaint really gave SIA no chance to put things right. Were SIA at fault at some stage? Perhaps. What is clear is that you never really gave the airline a fair opportunity to resolve the issue.

Finally. Singapore Airlines have an excellent online check in facility. 48 hours beforehand you could have have checked in and reserved the seats of your choice. There didn’t need to be a problem here.

 

[Platy]

In the very, very broadest of terms do you understand the difficulty of attempting to resolve a complaint six months after the event has elapsed ?.

Eh? And the word "patronising" means.....

SQ nailed this guy. Badly. (Unless we are saying the story is false). The length of time to complain (which has been clearly explained) does not alter the bad treatment. Furthermore, the lack of professionalism was NOT restricted to local staff, but also to the Oz manager. What % of bad behaviour is acceptable...50%, 10%, 1%, <1%?

Again, customer service is NOT rocker science!!! Don't you expect a pilot to be 100% effective??? Don't you expect a path lab worker to be 100% effective in identifying your blood type before a transfusion??? Aren't YOU expected to be excellent in whatever job you do???

And outsourcing leaves a lot to be desired, KPIs or no KPIs....

..why are people effectively doubting the integrity of the poster??? :shock:

Poor form in my book (on all counts)...

 

[mabunji]

Eh? And the word "patronising" means.....

I chose the word “broadest” in an attempt to expand the argument beyond merely considering the airline industry. In any service industry it is often simply not practical to resolve a complaint after such an extensive lapse in time, particularly if it comes down to the customers word against an employee.

I could have chosen to phrase it as “In the very, very simplest of terms …” and attempted to develop an argument. This would have had quite a different meaning and could well have been construed as offensive or patronizing. I chose the expression ‘broadest’ quite deliberately. Notwithstanding that, If the phrase was clumsy and appeared patronizing I offer a genuine apology.

SQ nailed this guy. Badly. (Unless we are saying the story is false). ...

The story does not necessarily need to be false. As I said in my post it is the conspiracy theory versus the cough up theory. I am seeing the cough up theory writ large. I am seeing a volatile and stressful situation, miscomprehensions, simple actions being misconstrued and perhaps cultural differences contributing to an escalating problem.

Staff in SGN behaved in a shameful manner – completely bizarre and unacceptable. But I do not see any evidence that this was condoned by SIA management, and I do not see evidence of a systemic pattern of behaviour that SIA should have curtailed.

This seems to be a localized issue which exploded for some reason, and no-one has so far offered an explanation as to why this passenger was on the receiving end. It goes completely against my experiences dealing with Singapore Airlines. I am not an apologist for the airline and have my share of niggles over the years, but for me they have always been very accommodating (once when I was very late for check in), and also in arranging alternative flights on competing airlines and paying for accommodation when a SQ flight was cancelled (I was traveling on an award flight – it was a substantial outlay for them).

What % of bad behaviour is acceptable...50%, 10%, 1%, <1%?

Clearly it is zero percent. For what it is worth I believe that Singapore Airlines would have a genuine interest in resolving this issue. If a complaint was filed in a timely manner they would have been able to investigate. Even if the complaint was inconclusive it would have served as a warning to staff being investigated.

Again, customer service is NOT rocker science!!!

No, but it is a very definite skill, and its weakest link is always individual staff members. By my calculation about one in ten of my flights are disappointing in some way, always it comes down to staff being disinterested or grumpy (could be cabin crew, check in staff, or gate staff). By contrast I witness truly appalling behaviour by passengers on virtually every trip that I undertake – attempting to intimidate and bully staff for an unwarranted upgrade or preferred seat, arguing for their ‘right’ to board with excess luggage. On board, crew instructions are ignored and staff are often treated with scant respect and little courtesy. It is not a job that I could do and I understand if once in a while an individual is not fully engaged in providing best service.

..why are people effectively doubting the integrity of the poster??? :shock:

Reading through, I think mine is perhaps the only negative response. Everyone appears to have expressed sympathy, but a common point does seem to be the difficulty of attempting to resolve this six months after the event.

I don’t know Jobu. I neither believe nor disbelieve him.

I don’t know Hoang, neither do I know the second SQ supervisor (the one described by Jobu as “almost as pathetic”) Both of these individuals clearly have a point of view as to what happened. Although they have been referred to in this thread they are not able to put their point of view.

I have questions – I am keeping an open mind until they are resolved.

Poor form in my book (on all counts)...

That’s fine. This forum is big enough to accommodate both of us.

Skytrax offers a website for passengers to post reviews of airlines (good or bad).
By contrast AFF is a forum. Jobu chose to post on this forum under a provocative heading – he was opening a discussion and inviting feedback. If my response was discourteous or patronizing quite obviously I apologise – but I do believe that I am entitled to raise questions and challenge things that I disagree with. It seems to me the very worse kind of groupthink if challenging another posters response is discouraged as ‘poor form’.

 

[Yada Yada]

I agree with you, sounds like in this instance SQ is taking a page from JQ/DJ!

There goes the BS meter again.

SQ are operating 17 flights a week out of SGN on 777-200’s, (roughly 255,000 to 285,000 seats a year) . Similar to Qantas, SQ are averaging around 80% seat occupancy – i.e. SQ is most likely flying around 204,000 to 228,000 passengers on this route. Let’s assume that there is a systemic problem at SGN and that (say) 1% of passengers are being brutalised by Hoang and his team – we’re looking at 2,000 plus seriously unhappy passengers a year. I don’t believe you can hide this level of discontent – did they all choose not to ’make a fuss’, or wait 6 months before sticking a letter in the post ?.

I don't agree. Many pax would not know the check-in rules for every airline at every airport. There is simply too much variation. I bet most pax would just accept they were in the wrong and cop it. And most disgruntled customers don't write - they just take their custom elsewhere.

I’m still not entirely happy at the six month delay in lodging a complaint with SIA. I understand that you had work commitments and were flat out. If it was me I would have been drafting a letter of complaint on the flight out of SGN, …. or while waiting for the connection in SIN, …. or on the flight back to Australia (basically while the details were fresh in my mind). If I didn’t have a laptop at hand I would have been writing longhand – it would have been a simple typing exercise to transfer the longhand doc into a Microsoft Word (20 – 25 minutes ?), and if I was still stuggling to find that 20 – 25 minutes over a period of 6 months I think I would have sent the letter of complaint off in the clumsy, smudgy longhand format regardless. Six months does seem extreme to me.

But that's you. I have a complaint with some rennovation work done by a builder and have not gotten around to doing anything about it yet, 9 months later. We're all different. Just because Jobu has taken time to write does not make it wrong.

I also disagree that SQ can't do much about it 6 months later. The company I work for is relatively small in Australia with much fewer resources than the likes of SQ, yet we can still investigate a complaint many months after the fact. And if in doubt, we err on the side of the customer because we want them to come back.

And even if the OP had written in the following day, what makes you think they are any more likely to get the truth out of staff in SGN especially if they've done the wrong thing?