ID checks for domestic pax?

[coco50]

Getting through security at any domestic airport may become more tedious if this scheme is implemented:

Call for identity checks at domestic airports to prevent criminals boarding flights under false names - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Milefest]

Dislike the idea. Regularly adds a few minutes of queuing in the states even as a priority pax.

 

[Quickstatus]

The entire passenger air transport industry security arrangement is premised on the assumption that everyone is a potential criminal/terrorist. The security has to be right 100% of the time to stop a terrorist, but a terrorist has to be right just once. Thus condemming everyone to unnecessary checks.

The use of ID checks will only be useful if they know in advance who the bad guys are whether convicted or not.
The fact that so many have slipped through customs net at International gateways and run to ISIS when they have to produce a passport suggests that using an ID will be more of a nuisance as suggested than be productive in combating crime.

On the other hand people with criminal histories have a hard time getting employment because sometimes this history has to be disclose. As a matter of principle shouldnt the airline know as well? Should the No-fly list be extended to convicted criminals?. It seems odd that a convicted criminal can fly in a metal tube and then be denied entry into a country due to a relatively low grade misdemeanour in order to protect the public?.

 

[russ]

So the baddies will just drive instead?

 

[Quickstatus]

I favour a presumption of freedom. How you balance this against the safety of the public is always a vexed issue.

The Kings Cross lockout debate demonstrate this

 

[dk4]

Aside from the impact this would have on processing time (and added cost to travel), what a troubling notion about the potential impact on civil liberties.

What's next?

ID checks to catch a train, show the bus driver your photo card before you can board a bus, taxi drivers running your ID through cabcharge before the car engine will start...

Where does this end?

Surely these select individuals at the AFP (who frankly IMO need to be weeded out, as their thinking is part of a Stasi-style mentality problem facing the agency, and not part of an effective solution for a cohesive, diverse Australia) won't suggest next - that everyone gets permanent GPS tracking devices implanted in them, to make their job easier? :shock:

As pointed out in the article, ID checks at airports won't primarily be used to help stop attacks on aeroplanes (let's face it, so far security and our society has been solid enough to achieve that), but to monitor individual travellers for other vague and unstated reasons (maybe to track someone's husband going off on a dirty weekend "business trip" with his secretary?). What a frightening world the AFP seems to want to create for us (reminds me of the film Brazil), perhaps it has lost its way and needs fundamental restructuring.

Some times looking for a problem when there is none, merely ends up creating a bigger one (and then a bigger budget for the AFP I guess )

 

[farstar]

At the end of the day unless it is international I dont see the point of ID checks, except for Tasmania you can drive and although it would be an inconvinice criminals would just drive. If people are on some kind of watch list if it exists then ASIO and other government agencies need to step up their game if they cant track persons of interest.

 

[medhead]

Shouldn't bother anyone who is in a FF program, ID already checked. As per the example in the story:

One of those was self-styled Islamic preacher Junaid Thorne, who flew from Perth to Sydney.
A Sydney court was told he used an alias to evade security services who he believed were "interested" in him.
He was only caught because his airline loyalty account was linked to his booking.

Now here's the thing, I thought the FF number would only be accepted if it matched the name. So the guy had a different name with his real FF number? How does that work? Just doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Hvr]

Dislike the idea. Regularly adds a few minutes of queuing in the states even as a priority pax.

Minutes? Sometimes an hour or more even if in F with OWE. My worst was at ORD when I arrived at 0330 hours for an 0530 flight/ Took an hour to get through the priority line. The regular lines were longer.

We would also need a better ID card, my licence has too many details on that will inevitably lead to ID theft with constant checking by the drones on a security line.

 

[coco50]

I favour a presumption of freedom. How you balance this against the safety of the public is always a vexed issue.

The Kings Cross lockout debate demonstrate this

One of the few freedoms guaranteed by our constitution is the freedom to travel between states - guaranteed in s.92

 

[RooFlyer]

A big yawn for me. For years we had to ID ourselves at check-in, so the 'civil liberty' argument doesn't hold water, in my mind. It only stopped with self-serve and on-line check-in.

 

[coco50]

A big yawn for me. For years we had to ID ourselves at check-in, so the 'civil liberty' argument doesn't hold water, in my mind. It only stopped with self-serve and on-line check-in.

What amazes me is that pax can book a ticket, check in and board the aircraft with probably overweight baggage with minimal contact with airline staff. As my daughter says with her overweight baggage: "Look light"!

 

[moa999]

And the real baddies will just book a ticket under a fake name using fake ID...
More circus theatre imho.

 

[dajop]

A big yawn for me. For years we had to ID ourselves at check-in, so the 'civil liberty' argument doesn't hold water, in my mind. It only stopped with self-serve and on-line check-in.

Yes ID ourselves with that foolproof ID known as a frequent flyer card. Only if we didn't have one of those did we have to use photo ID.....

 

[anat0l]

And the real baddies will just book a ticket under a fake name using fake ID...
More circus theatre imho.

If they try hard enough it will always win, irrespective of the security procedures. Whilst it isn't the easiest thing to do, producing a fake passport is not impossible, especially if it's only just to pass a "it looks legit" check, not that they are going to check some electronic database to see if that person exists.

Even finger biometrics can be faked.

Now one would think no security is an option (i.e. forget the ID checks; in fact, forget supplying any names at all, a bit like riding the bus), but if the argument that someone will always find a way to bypass the system is true, why is the "no security" option not viable?

 

[medhead]

And the real baddies will just book a ticket under a fake name using fake ID...
More circus theatre imho.

If they try hard enough it will always win, irrespective of the security procedures. Whilst it isn't the easiest thing to do, producing a fake passport is not impossible, especially if it's only just to pass a "it looks legit" check, not that they are going to check some electronic database to see if that person exists.

Even finger biometrics can be faked.

Now one would think no security is an option (i.e. forget the ID checks; in fact, forget supplying any names at all, a bit like riding the bus), but if the argument that someone will always find a way to bypass the system is true, why is the "no security" option not viable?

It's worth remembering this is not being raised as an airport/airplane security issue. This is being raised as a policing issue. I'd bet anything that the real targets are drug and/or bikies. Putting in a terror suspect who was catch because he attached his real ID to the ticket is a classic bit of distraction, no doubt to gain support.

Aside= You know you're a frequent flyer when you end up in prison because you just could let those points go.

Yes ID ourselves with that foolproof ID known as a frequent flyer card. Only if we didn't have one of those did we have to use photo ID.....

Mixed bag for me. Back in the 1990s was told that I must always show photo ID not QC card. Then one day I got abused by premium check in desk on the assumption of being not entitled to use that lane when I showed my photo ID. I was then told to use my QC card.

 

[opusman]

Photo ID was required for check-in for a short period in the late 90s, but it was quietly dropped once self-checkin / Internet checkin became a thing.

I can't see how it helps security at all to be honest. Fake IDs are (apparently) easy to get.

 

[dajop]

This comes up every now and then , and again, and again and again. The implications of this are either:
- Police have powers to conduct gate based ID spot checks (which seem to be what is being advocated, and probably not change things tremendously)
- Gate based ID checks for everyone (increase boarding time)
- ID checks at security to ensure BP matches ID (would completely alter the way in which our airports are run, and wouldn't stop people swapping boarding passes, say interstate for intrastate flights)

 

[opusman]

- ID checks at security to ensure BP matches ID (would completely alter the way in which our airports are run, and wouldn't stop people swapping boarding passes, say interstate for intrastate flights)

... which would bring in the US system of requiring a boarding pass to get through security.

 

[Ausbt]

I must have caught the Work Experience kid at SYD DOM one day, as upon being asked for ID she simply didn't believe me when I advised her it is not required. Regardless, I'm of the view now it is a good idea. If it's good enough for NSW cyclists it's good enough for flyers.