If my Business Class Classic Rewards Flight is cancelled do Qantas have to put me on another Business class flight?

[dandandan]

Yes NRT-SFO was JAL. JAL ground staff rang their admin team numerous times with no success advising that they could not make changes to the booking due to QF owning it. I also asked specifically if they could contact Qantas on my behalf and was told that no, I would have to contact Qantas. At one point QF told me to speak to JAL as the booking had gone into airport control(?) but a this point JAL said they could still not do anything about it. Also just putting it out there… the swissport admin team on the ground were asking a lot of questions and diluting the situation without being able to offer anything at all toward a resolution. It was a rough day at the airport. 2+ years since the the pandemic and we’ll be missing the chance to reconnect with so many of our family as a result.

Unsure. Our booking reference did briefly change to UA61 at which point I naively thought we were in the clear. All downhill from there today though!

There is 2 J classic rewards seats to Vancouver ex Sydney available on Qantas on 26/12 if that helps you. Short hop down to SFO from there and also need to connect to Sydney from Melbourne. I noticed last night there was six F tickets available to book as classic awards awards SYD-LAX for a flight leaving today, so might be some last minute unsold seats pop up as rewards before going to upgrades.

 

[ShrinkWrapped]

Unsure. Our booking reference did briefly change to UA61 at which point I naively thought we were in the clear. All downhill from there today though!

At the end of the day, you no-showed your NRT-SFO sector. if it was all one ticket (e.g. MEL-NRT-SFO), then you would have been protected on UA61 where possible. However, as far as JL were concerned, you were flying MEL-NRT. The fact you had an onwards ticket when you ended up delayed was irrelevant to JL. From a QF perspective you have been recorded as a no-show.

I guess this is where travel insurance comes in handy and would have covered your trip interruption…. Or did you travel without insurance?

 

[Quickstatus]

Malaysian does have a few question marks over its safety

Yes it’s off topic and replying to a comment back March 2022 but would, with readers indulgence, like to close out with this:

One could also point the same finger at the ground engineers. It’s a classic case of “don’t expect it to be there so don’t see it even if visible to everyone else”. A well known cognitive condition.

If MH have a few question marks over pitot tube covers, suggest having a few questions marks re QF over similar

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yeah understood. Overnight stay would have been ideal but not possible at NRT during time of booking due to covid restrictions. Quite a few circumstantial events leading to this outcome including this morning’s fog at MEL that delayed dozens of flights and caused a fair few diversions. Wild day and a lesson learned overall.

Whether QF or JAL can be held responsible is an open question. If I had paid QF or JAL for both flights on JAL I would have been covered. I paid JAL directly for one and redeemed another via QF and suddenly that absolves both from resolving any issues? Doesn’t quite sit right. If JAL is compensated for that flight by QF via my redemption booking why can neither assist to get me connected?

The question around UA61 is aso an interesting one. JAL was willing to book UA61 and attempted it. QF did not assist. UA61 bridges both of those legs as it is MEL-SFO. Ultimately would it have been a shared cost? I offered to pay a fare difference at the JAL counter but nothing could be done.

Don’t want to dilute this topic with my fringe case but all in all just a bit disappointed with the fact that qantas defaults to refunds with rewards flights with zero support offered even when the partner airline is pushing for a resolution and just as is stated in the OP that’s Qantas having it both ways.

The difference here is your overall contract.

With separate tickets you have separate contracts. They aren’t linked and one isn’t dependent on the other. One airline gets you from A to B, the other has to get you from B to C.

If you had a single ticket, you have a single contract. That contract in your case would have been A (MEL) to B (SFO). So if something goes wrong the airlines have to get you to SFO and there are agreements in place between the airlines to make sure that happens.

If you had a single ticket JAL could have booked you on UA61 and the arrangements in place to cover these situations would have kicked in and everything would have been fine. With separate tickets booking you on UA61 is problematic because someone has to arrange to pay United for you passage. Not a simple or straightforward task.

 

[turkz1]

At the end of the day, you no-showed your NRT-SFO sector. if it was all one ticket (e.g. MEL-NRT-SFO), then you would have been protected on UA61 where possible. However, as far as JL were concerned, you were flying MEL-NRT. The fact you had an onwards ticket when you ended up delayed was irrelevant to JL. From a QF perspective you have been recorded as a no-show.

I guess this is where travel insurance comes in handy and would have covered your trip interruption…. Or did you travel without insurance?

Have annual multi trip insurance with medibank but given NRT-SFO on United was 4k and MEL-SFO on UA61 was 3.3k for the following day elected not to fly to NRT with no accommodation etc etc as insurance terms and limits were not confidence inspiring. Very likely we would have still been significantly out of pocket. Tried to get clarity with Medibank on the phone but nothing concrete.

 

[chiken_nugets]

Another episode in this saga of classic flight rewards.

I had an itinerary flying BNE to SYD, SYD to LHR QF1 and then LHR to AMS in classic reward whY.

Qantas sent me a notification advising that the flight from LHR to AMS was departing 10 minutes earlier than previous.

Usually I would have just accepted the change but I noticed the layover in LHR was becoming uncomfortably short... I looked at the alternatives offered by the Qantas website, and one of them was an Emirates routing BNE - DXB - AMS, taking 7 hours less in total and with very pleasant departure and arrival times.

However upon selecting this I got a website error.

Cue calling Qantas, and dealing with about 10 different agents, each time being told a variation of - you can't be rebooked onto a commercial fare if you booked a classic flight reward. Regardless of whether it's a voluntary or involuntary change.

I persisted and eventually convinced someone that if Qantas website was offering it to me they should be able to make it happen.

After a lengthy hold they told me their system was freezing up and needed to restart. They said they would call me back in 30 minutes.

30 minutes later on the dot I get a call from Qantas. Pick up - call instantly drops. They called again, rinse and repeat about five times unable to get on the phone.

So I thought that was it, no luck, might have to stick with my existing itinerary.

However... last night I opened my Qantas app and lo and behold... A new itinerary via Dubai is showing in my booking reference. It's not yet ticketed, I'm hopeful that within the next day or two that will come through. Fingers crossed.

Just shows that with some persistence and patience you can get somewhere if you manage to get hold of the right person.

 

[cambriamarsh]

Have annual multi trip insurance with medibank but given NRT-SFO on United was 4k and MEL-SFO on UA61 was 3.3k for the following day elected not to fly to NRT with no accommodation etc etc as insurance terms and limits were not confidence inspiring. Very likely we would have still been significantly out of pocket. Tried to get clarity with Medibank on the phone but nothing concrete.

Sorry for what the OP has been through.
I was under the impression a passenger is protected on 1W from a misconnect, does that only apply to single ticket flights, not separate tickets? If so painful for the OP but something to remember.

 

[encryptededdy]

I was under the impression a passenger is protected on 1W from a misconnect

This is before my time, but if I recall correctly some airlines (e.g. American) used to protect you even on seperate tickets many years ago, if transiting to/from OW (I think pre-2016?). However these days I don't think any carrier and/or alliance does it for seperate tickets.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Another episode in this saga of classic flight rewards.

I had an itinerary flying BNE to SYD, SYD to LHR QF1 and then LHR to AMS in classic reward whY.

Qantas sent me a notification advising that the flight from LHR to AMS was departing 10 minutes earlier than previous.

Usually I would have just accepted the change but I noticed the layover in LHR was becoming uncomfortably short... I looked at the alternatives offered by the Qantas website, and one of them was an Emirates routing BNE - DXB - AMS, taking 7 hours less in total and with very pleasant departure and arrival times.

However upon selecting this I got a website error.

Cue calling Qantas, and dealing with about 10 different agents, each time being told a variation of - you can't be rebooked onto a commercial fare if you booked a classic flight reward. Regardless of whether it's a voluntary or involuntary change.

I persisted and eventually convinced someone that if Qantas website was offering it to me they should be able to make it happen.

After a lengthy hold they told me their system was freezing up and needed to restart. They said they would call me back in 30 minutes.

30 minutes later on the dot I get a call from Qantas. Pick up - call instantly drops. They called again, rinse and repeat about five times unable to get on the phone.

So I thought that was it, no luck, might have to stick with my existing itinerary.

However... last night I opened my Qantas app and lo and behold... A new itinerary via Dubai is showing in my booking reference. It's not yet ticketed, I'm hopeful that within the next day or two that will come through. Fingers crossed.

Just shows that with some persistence and patience you can get somewhere if you manage to get hold of the right person.

Flights LHR-AMS on BA are very frequent, every couple hours at most. If you had misconnects d you would have been underway pretty soon.

Unless you fell below minimum connecting time QF were right to push back. Was the Emirates booking a reward booking as well?

If the Emirates seats are paid seats it may not reach ticketing stage, or if it does get there. it may get blocked.

 

[serfty]

At the end of the day, you no-showed your NRT-SFO sector

This could have been avoided by @turkz1 cancelling once it was realised that they were not going to make it.

TYO-SFO was a classic flight reward from Qantas.

A Qantas award booking can be cancelled right up until the scheduled departure time of the first flight of the booking, even if checked in. Once done, a full refund of the taxes, levies and surcharges as well as the points less any cancellation fee will ensue.

Until the end of this year the award cancellation fee is 0 points for international bookings.

 

[encryptededdy]

Until the end of this year the award cancellation fee is 0 points for international bookings.

Only if booked before 30 Sept, but yep

 

[chiken_nugets]

Flights LHR-AMS on BA are very frequent, every couple hours at most. If you had misconnects d you would have been underway pretty soon.

I have a family engagement on the same day I arrive, so not too keen to roll the dice.

If I end up with my original itinerary - tant pis. If I end up on the Emirates routing - all the better.

 

[serfty]

Only if booked before 30 Sept, but yep

You might say that ...

 

[RichardMEL]

Yeah, given you were on seperate tickets I wonder what the intent was here. Was JAL going to pay for the UA flight? Or maybe their ground staff in Melbourne isn't super experienced with seperate tickets and thought it would be allowed by policy, but actually isn't.

I'm going to guess ground staff overstepped their authority (hence the brief booking on UA61). Bravo for intent and effort by the MEL staff - fully appreciate... but I imagine they just couldn't given the circumstances.

but I am going to guess the bean counters in Tokyo said no way. As far as JL was concerned you'd purchased with them MEL-NRT. Common sense says but yes you also purchased NRT_SFO with them (but through QF) so you'd think sure, do the rebook to SFO whichever way. However since they did not have control over the 2nd ticket and it WAS a separate ticket, they'd then have been effectively trying to reissue MEL-NRT into MEL-SFO. That doesn't really pass much muster unfortunately from a ticketing/repricing etc point of view. It would have forced JL into, more or less, puchasing a walk up Y (or whatever class) ticket on UA that doesn't equate to the route purchased(ie MEL-NRT). Since QF wouldn't come to the party (or at least certainly not within the time of the delay) they were left with either providing you the transport for which you paid for (ie MEL-NRT) or refunding it if you decide not to fly (and I'd hope they were at least able to do that without no show/cancel fees?).

I promise I see both sides of this, but the separate tickets is the big issue here (reward seats are another issue of course).

 

[RichardMEL]

Another episode in this saga of classic flight rewards.

I had an itinerary flying BNE to SYD, SYD to LHR QF1 and then LHR to AMS in classic reward whY.

Qantas sent me a notification advising that the flight from LHR to AMS was departing 10 minutes earlier than previous.

Usually I would have just accepted the change but I noticed the layover in LHR was becoming uncomfortably short... I looked at the alternatives offered by the Qantas website, and one of them was an Emirates routing BNE - DXB - AMS, taking 7 hours less in total and with very pleasant departure and arrival times.

However upon selecting this I got a website error.

Cue calling Qantas, and dealing with about 10 different agents, each time being told a variation of - you can't be rebooked onto a commercial fare if you booked a classic flight reward. Regardless of whether it's a voluntary or involuntary change.

I persisted and eventually convinced someone that if Qantas website was offering it to me they should be able to make it happen.

After a lengthy hold they told me their system was freezing up and needed to restart. They said they would call me back in 30 minutes.

30 minutes later on the dot I get a call from Qantas. Pick up - call instantly drops. They called again, rinse and repeat about five times unable to get on the phone.

So I thought that was it, no luck, might have to stick with my existing itinerary.

However... last night I opened my Qantas app and lo and behold... A new itinerary via Dubai is showing in my booking reference. It's not yet ticketed, I'm hopeful that within the next day or two that will come through. Fingers crossed.

Just shows that with some persistence and patience you can get somewhere if you manage to get hold of the right person.

Yeah. I dunno about this one.

When you say the QF website presented the EK options - were they as reward seats or just as normal paid fares?

if the former.. then that's reasonable (but the whole thing would need to be reissued, taxes recalculated and all the fun things). If the later, QF res pushing back on this makes sense... if the 10min earlier BA flight meant a missed connection, BA would protect you under the same ticket (and if the retimed flight did not meet MCT at LHR QF should not have offered this as a acceptable change and gone to the next BA flight, but I'm going to guess it still meets MCT even if it is an uncomfortably tight connection).

On the day of course you never know what could happen... I mean you could end up in Baku .... or you could arrive LHR 45 minutes early and be twiddling your thumbs waiting for your AMS flight.

That the new itin showing has not been ticketed is a concern to me tbh. I would get back to QF (good luck - seems like you are suffering the offshore call centre issues in many ways ) to see exactly what is going on here.

what class do the EK flights show as being booked in (I mean as in "Travel Class Economy (X)"?

 

[chiken_nugets]

I have called Qantas, they said to just wait 24 to 48 hours as it is in the queue to be ticketed (standard line I'm sure).

Look - if it doesn't end up happening I won't particularly care. If it does go through I will be very happy indeed. My main concern is always flying as direct as possible.

I don't think Qantas owes me the Dubai routing by any means.

It comes up as Economy (S) - not sure if that is an Emirates or Qantas designation.

It's a bit of a weird situation in that both the old flights and the new flights are showing in the booking - however when requesting an email itinerary only the original flights (old flight times) come through. So a new e ticket will need to be issued either way, whether it is the QF/BA or EK flights.

 

[RichardMEL]

hmm S class.

are these EK flight numbers or QF flight numbers?

interestingly enough for EK flight numbers, S class appears to be a non rev/special fare class which would concern me a bit (QF S class is a dicount revenue economy fare). See this page re EK S class: https://www.theflightexpert.com/emirates-fare-classes-explained-booking-classes-fare-type-guide/

so that seems interesting (but I can find no other obvious official reference to EK S booking class to confirm or deny.
I did a quick fare search on EF and couldn't find any S class fares listed for EK (which would support it being a non rev fare type).

it may be some special arrangement for conversion of economy reward seats of course. unsure.

interesting (to me) anyway.

 

[chiken_nugets]

QF flight numbers in the booking.

 

[Quickstatus]

Economy (S)

It is one of the fare buckets in the “discount economy” or Red e-Deal category. Actually one bucket below the highest bucket in that category.

 

[exLXCXFF]

I have called Qantas, they said to just wait 24 to 48 hours as it is in the queue to be ticketed (standard line I'm sure

did anything happen in the last 24 hours?