IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALAEA

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

So you are ok therefore it is a beat up? rightio then, must tell everyone at work today who spent a lot of (wasted) time re-organising everyone's travel plans that were made last week.

Was the rearranging done just in ancticipation that there were going to be massive delays because the media said there would be?

Wonder if the original flights you were on were in fact delayed at all?

 

[Pushka]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Was the rearranging done just in ancticipation that there were going to be massive delays because the media said there would be?

Wonder if the original flights you were on were in fact delayed at all?

Actually, today we were advised that all other flights we held for next week have now been CANCELLED BY QANTAS!

There are several issues when running a business, associated with Business risk. We cannot risk not arriving at a business location or we can lose thousands of dollars of income.

We rearranged one return flight yesterday, but left another one intact. The flight that we re-arranged yesterday has now been cancelled by Qantas (by checking on the website) so that was a good preventive move. We got a good price from Virgin yesterday but today prices are higher.

The flight that we did not cancel but left in tact - today Qantas called us and said that the first flight (Adelaide - Sydney on next Monday) has also been cancelled. They advised they could put us on an earlier flight - several hours earlier. We cant make that flight due to existing appointments and the fact that the original flight was a connecting flight to a rural location in NSW. Qantas option meant we would be hanging around, on a Monday, in Sydney airport for several hours. So Qantas refunded our money and we have now rebooked another flight with Virgin.

So really? reality is for us that we have to cancel our flights with Qantas because of a REAL risk and not an anticipated one.

 

[Archphoto]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Was the rearranging done just in ancticipation that there were going to be massive delays because the media said there would be?

Wonder if the original flights you were on were in fact delayed at all?

For the average Australian, the news/media is the only place they could probably get information regarding the problems at hand, as they don't have a contact at QF who can give them a heads up or put things a little more in perspective. And yes, they do often "beat up" their stories for more and more sensational headlines, which in turn, sell more papers, get more people watching etc. "Never let the truth, stand in the way of a good story!"

A company with *many* people needing to fly from A-B and "be on time", may not have the choice to take a chance and see if it is or isn't true - so yes, they'll end up rearranging flights, schedules, meetings etc and are probably rather peeved about it as well.

I'm not taking sides - this affects everyone in different ways eg:

• Pre-planning and having a plan B in place, is a must if you need to be somewhere on time - time consuming for companies;
• taking your chances with the original flight may fit if it's not a time critical flight;
• heading OS with a needed connection from ADL/CNR/HBA etc, could be dicey if the flight connection is tight - do we change/do we stick with the original flight?

In the long run, it doesn't matter if the original flights were on time or not - in Pushka's case, having to rearrange the schedules was a contingency plan they decided they needed to put into play, to ensure their business ran smoothly - media reporting notwithstanding, that was the (perceived) correct course of action that needed to be taken and seen as "(wasted) time".

I'd be happy to take my chances if the flights weren't time critical But if they were, I too would have to put contingency plans in place, and to be honest - I'd find that a right royal PITA too. :mrgreen:

 

[docjames]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Sounds like some issues keeping call centre up to date woth the cancellations.

Colleague received text message from Qantas that his flight early next week is cancelled. Called call centre.

After 30min hold, call centre answers and informs him flight still going.

When asked about text message, told that "sometimes operations know more than us so maybe it is cancelled - we're happy to rebook you".

Colleague took refund voucher and booked Virgin flight at same time as original.

 

[medhead]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

AJ must recant, he MUST find a solution: now is the time to prove he is not an arrogant SOB. IMO the QF board also needs to terminate the chairman ASAP, with future hindsight he will be seen as the problem not the solution!

I think that part of this solution will also necessitate SP to step down from his position in the union, so both sides lose equal amount of "face".

I think this is a pretty insightful comment. Regardless of view Joyce is the man at the top. He really should show leadership and get to a solution. Not least because I have 15 flights with qantas In the next 2 months.

 

[Stephen65]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

When I fly for work it's usually time critical because I need to be in court at a particular time and Qantas' industrial relations problems are not an excuse. If I need to fly before this is sorted out I will have to fly DJ because I cannot take the risk of cancellation or substantial delays.

 

[Pushka]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

When I fly for work it's usually time critical because I need to be in court at a particular time and Qantas' industrial relations problems are not an excuse. If I need to fly before this is sorted out I will have to fly DJ because I cannot take the risk of cancellation or substantial delays.

Exactly. And I am sure your client would not be happy to use the excuse that the Qantas flight didn't depart on time, when you have been made aware that this was a possibility and did nothing to minimise the risk by booking an alternative. Whether or not the delay occurs. Well, except it seems like now they are not just delays but cancellations.

A beat up? - check the cancellations page - for all of next week! Qantas have to pull flights now for the next few days at least because they no longer have the capacity to service the large fleet to Australian standards.

If you do one flight every few weeks then maybe to you it is a non event because randomly your flight wasn't affected. If you travel regularly and have a strict timeline for travel then this is far from a beat up.

 

[mannej]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Without wanting to get into the debate on who is right who is wrong, I am thinking if DJ would be able to cope if similar action occurred against them.

(*as an aside- Unions are not my flavour of the month- totally unrelated...)

 

[medhead]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

I find the pulling of the 5 aircraft interesting. The reason for doing this is because they can't keep up with maintenance because the union has banned overtime and the is a capacity shortfall of 1200 hours per week. IMO, and it is only my opinion, that suggests they are understaffed. 1200 hours is something like 30x 40 hour weeks. It has been reported that they are paying double time for overtime. Surely that raises the question about how they are running the business. Maintenaince costs are said to be excessive. How much of that is related to paying the approximately 60 fulltime wages on overtime to do the work of 30 on normal time? Obviously, this is a simplification of the rostering issues involved, but it gives an idea of the order of magnitude.

 

[serfty]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

...It has been reported that they are paying double time for overtime. Surely that raises the question about how they are running the business. Maintenaince costs are said to be excessive. How much of that is related to paying the approximately 60 fulltime wages on overtime to do the work of 30 on normal time? Obviously, this is a simplification of the rostering issues involved, but it gives an idea of the order of magnitude.

It's somewhat of a simplification - overtime is seen by most in the Industry as part of the job.

If Qantas were to restructure employment so no overtime was necessary (every thing else being equal) you would have some very disgruntled LAMES since it would effectively be a paycut.

 

[muppet]

It's somewhat of a simplification - overtime is seen by most in the Industry as part of the job.

If Qantas were to restructure employment so no overtime was necessary (every thing else being equal) you would have some very disgruntled LAMES since it would effectively be a paycut.

Overtime is a winner for both parties.

It allows QF to reduce the number of staff - more staff is much more costly than double time! With recruitment, training, uniforms blah blag. Plus QF don't have to pay super on overtime.

Employees end up with a generous package if they do the overtime, meal allowances etc so it's actually good for both.

When i was at uni working in a factory, 1/3 of my daily wage was earned in the final 1.5 hours overtime, once allowances et al were included. And by doing that the company could almost cut a shift - some still had to come in to monitor things.

 

[CWM]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

I am thinking if DJ would be able to cope if similar action occurred against them.

Not likely to happen, at least not anytime soon. Qantas are 'iconic' which in Australia means 'too big to fail'. If the union drives them to the wall they know Gillard will bail them out.... voila they become federal government employees with lifelong tenure. This program has to move fast on account of the feebleness of the fed Labor government.

 

[straitman]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Not likely to happen, at least not anytime soon. Qantas are 'iconic' which in Australia means 'too big to fail'. If the union drives them to the wall they know Gillard will bail them out.... voila they become federal government employees with lifelong tenure. This program has to move fast on account of the feebleness of the fed Labor government.

Ansett was 'iconic' in the minds of many people :!:

 

[Awesom Andy]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Not likely to happen, at least not anytime soon. Qantas are 'iconic' which in Australia means 'too big to fail'. If the union drives them to the wall they know Gillard will bail them out.... voila they become federal government employees with lifelong tenure. This program has to move fast on account of the feebleness of the fed Labor government.

Now you are encouraging them. :shock:
It wouldn't quite matter who is the government of the day. If Qantas does "fail", it will probably be saved, not because it's too big to fail, but from the status and number of ff points the MPs have accrued over the years, doing their home to/from CBR runs.

 

[CWM]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Ansett was 'iconic' in the minds of many people

Yes but it just didn't have the brand history of the 'Queensland and Northern Territory air service'.... and Liberal government are generally inclined to be more economic realists then Labor, hence the need to act fast as I said.

Andy not a pol but I did that CBR run the other day and if more of the CBR QANTAS staff were as blatantly rude as the guy I met at the counter I frankly couldn't care if they failed.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Well, one union has called off action for three weeks to see if the planes come back. Interesting move....

The union representing Qantas licensed aircraft maintenance engineers has called off all industrial action for three weeks.


It is a "challenge" to Qantas to get its grounded aircraft back in the skies, rather than blaming the union for a maintenance backlog, union officials said.


The union maintains that some of the aircraft are grounded because the airline had slated them for disposal.

Qantas union calls off industrial action, for now

​

 

[Pushka]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Husband is on his sixth Virgin flight in the last three weeks and another virgin flight to come. So many flights cancelled this week.

 

[ethernet]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

Overtime is a winner for both parties.

It allows QF to reduce the number of staff - more staff is much more costly than double time! With recruitment, training, uniforms blah blag. Plus QF don't have to pay super on overtime. <snip>
.

Overtime is a winner (at least in Australia). But Management has this hellbent $$$ per employee measurement, so you see outsourcing and 'no' to recruitment, even when operational analytics says 'yes' . - With each one trying to cut numbers. See management lesson 'Rewarding whats really counted' .

If they want to get serious, they can 'manage' sensibly, within calculated limits, and attack 'idle' time while keeping risk margins at bay. Just ask Tiger what happens when you cut too deeply... Or UBS, or Barings.

 

[cove]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

A lot of employees are going to be unemployed in 2012 according to my crystal ball. Too bad because the pay was pretty good in 2011.

 

[codash1099]

Re: IF you're planning on flying in the lead up to Christmas, don't fly Qantas. - ALA

And the current state of the game is:

Qantas in PR tail spin - The Drum Opinion - Qantas is allegedly winning the PR war against the unions, but the verdict of this week's Essential Report shows otherwise. (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)