ING - No International Fees + Fee Free ATM Withdrawals Worldwide (Orange Everyday & Orange One)

[Legoman]

This development is fairly obviously (to me anyway) an admission that their Orange One credit card product has been a disaster and not taken up in anything like the numbers they were hoping for. Not surprising since it offers nothing over and above what you can get from any number of other credit cards that come with no annual fee for life. The requirement for 5 transactions/month is clearly aimed at trying to get people to switch to using the Orange One credit card as their main payment method. They don't expect people to use their Orange Everydays to accomplish this, they know people prefer credit cards to debit cards, so their thinking is that people will switch to their underperforming Orange One credit card to easily jump through the hoops required to get the no international fees carrot.

This is not designed to convert those who are already setup with Wankbest Zero Platinums or 28° cards. Those people are not going to convert from their no annual fee cards to a card with an annual fee. This is designed to try and get new customers who either don't know about Wankbest Zero Platinums + 28° or whom don't have the capacity or want the higher credit limits that go hand in hand with the Platinum cards solutions. This is to try and rust on new customers into the ING Universe with their suite of products. The Orange One credit card for their daily spend, the Orange Everyday for ATM cash, the Savings Maximiser for their savings and then when they've saved enough, they have their Mortgage Simplifier + Orange Advantage for their home loan and even an insurance product they'll need then too. It's all designed to make it easy for someone to align their entire financial lives with ING. Sadly some unsophisticated people will inevitably be sucked into this, but for the rest who pick and choose the best products from whomever offers them at the time with little to zero loyalty to any particular brand, this development is a case of "Nothing to see here, move along quietly please"

 

[oz_mark]

The peurile references to Bankwest as WankBest significantly undermine the credibility of your argument

 

[Legoman]

The peurile references to Bankwest as WankBest significantly undermine the credibility of your argument

Lemme guess, you have a Platinum Zero?

 

[Strategic Aviation]

Queue the majors to follow in 3....2....1.......

I'm not aware of any copycatting by other banks yet (but haven't really looked).

they should have made it clearer rather then placing it at the bottom of the material.

The Savings Maximiser change shouldn't have been in that email at all. The email subject was "Say goodbye to our international transaction fees…" and there would be a significant number of customers who wouldn't have reason to open it based on that title.

The change should have been communicated directly and clearly in a separate email. Such as the one ING sent on 1 November titled "The latest on your Savings Maximiser" ...

Since then there have been a couple more emails from ING, none of which mention the Savings Maximiser change. Many customers would still be in the dark.

make 5 transactions to receive the refund benefit is pretty fair IMO.

ING are entitled to set any requirements they like. Customers are entitled to their reaction and many have clearly signalled their dislike with respect to the Savings Maximiser change in particular. The ATM refunds doesn't seem to be as big an issue.

I'll stick with it if $0.01 card purchases can meet the monthly transaction requirement.

 

[Legoman]

What can you buy by card for $0.01? Just curious.

 

[oz_mark]

Lemme guess, you have a Platinum Zero?

Nope.

What can you buy by card for $0.01? Just curious.

The Bankwest transaction acoount holders can help you with that!

 

[Strategic Aviation]

As per post #7:-

The self-checkout machines allow you to split payments, so you could put $0.01 on Orange Everyday and the rest on your points-earning card. (I'm not aware of any restrictions/minimums when splitting payments.)

The Bankwest transaction acoount holders can help you with that!

I believe that is a reference to macro'ing online transactions? I didn't think they were doing card purchases in person.

 

[oz_mark]

I believe that is a reference to macro'ing online transactions? I didn't think they were doing card purchases in person.

Split payments at self serve checkouts actually....

 

[Legoman]

ING have always had and continue to have a clause in their T&C's which specifically warns that use of their products in a manner deemed to not be in the spirt of their offers will result in cancellation or suspension of accounts and reversal or denied benefits. It's a nice catch-all clause that can be applied to any & all loopholes people may find in their promotional offers their marketing people haven't thought of that can be applied retrospectively as they deem fit.

It was applied to many account holders caught ruthlessly doing transactions to take full advantage of the 5%/2% rebate offers that used to be a part of the Orange Everyday debit card. I wasn't one to take the piss repeatedly with that offer, however I did get questioned once when I bought some clothes at a retail outfit that went through as two separate transactions just under $100 each within seconds of each other. I know of others who bought multiple $99 Bunnings gift cards one after the other on the same day at the same store over and over again who had their accounts stopped. Same for people who took large 4WDs to petrol stations and filled multiple jerry cans breaking the transactions up into $99 amounts and paying with their ING cards. Rebates denied.

I would expect that 5 x multiple 1c purchases made on the same day at the same merchant using the same card month after month endlessly will be treated with the same sort of disdain by ING.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

Split payments at self serve checkouts actually....

That would be slow and tedious but credit to them.

I would expect that 5 x multiple 1c purchases made on the same day at the same merchant using the same card month after month endlessly will be treated with the same sort of disdain by ING.

I have no intention of doing the transactions on the same day at the same merchant, partly because it is slow and tedious.

And it makes zero difference to me if they have an issue with it, because the alternative is that I'd stop using their products anyway ...

Will report back next year

 

[Legoman]

it makes zero difference to me if they have an issue with it, because the alternative is that I'd stop using their products anyway ...

True and good point! If you need the fee free int'l transactions via ING, you may as well give it a crack if it's not too much hassle for you. If they pull you up, then just wave them goodbye and revert to the Citibank Plus instead.

 

[oz_mark]

I would expect that 5 x multiple 1c purchases made on the same day at the same merchant using the same card month after month endlessly will be treated with the same sort of disdain by ING.

Be smart and break things up. There'a always ways and means.

Anyway, ING is my overseas backup card in case anything goes wrong with my Citi card. Which has happened....

 

[ermen]

Can someone explain why 5 transactions is so important? What's the benefit to ING of me using their card to make purchases?
If it was just to receive the benefit of getting fee-free ATM withdrawals overseas, fine, but to link it to savings interest rate is BS.

yeah agreed.
they probably lost me as a customer there. probably move some savings over to BW Hero savings account.

 

[SOPOOR]

im both very early and late to the ING partt\y,
I first opened one when they first hit the market here in early 2000s (if I recall)
virtually havent used them since then, for various reasons,
now I still dont have a need for the high interest, as funds go to offset now,

however I am intersted in the fee free international ATM stuff,
so if I have read correctly
in the previous month if I deposit $1k, use my orange everyday 5x,
the following month I get international fee free for exchange fees as well as when I withdraw cash at an atm, there are no fees??

as when I travel I usually pay cash and go to fee free money exchanges as banks nomrllay charge a $5 withdrawal,

is this correct?

 

[scwappy]

im both very early and late to the ING partt\y,
I first opened one when they first hit the market here in early 2000s (if I recall)
virtually havent used them since then, for various reasons,
now I still dont have a need for the high interest, as funds go to offset now,

however I am intersted in the fee free international ATM stuff,
so if I have read correctly
in the previous month if I deposit $1k, use my orange everyday 5x,
the following month I get international fee free for exchange fees as well as when I withdraw cash at an atm, there are no fees??

as when I travel I usually pay cash and go to fee free money exchanges as banks nomrllay charge a $5 withdrawal,

is this correct?

That’s my understanding of it.

 

[SOPOOR]

That’s my understanding of it.

ok thats great, seems a bit annoying that the previous month we have to deposit 1k, and 5x, to get fee free,

I assume its calendar month too, I will call them to check

edit: called, confirmed a few things

its calendar month,
it applies to all International ATMs and international purhcases i nthe following month,

apparentrly the fees are either charged and rebated or not charged at all

and the only difference from march is the 5x requirement

I guess this will only be used when Im overseas for ATMs

 

[Strategic Aviation]

it applies to all International ATMs and international purhcases i nthe following month

Presumably the card purchases requirement will also apply to the rebating of Australian ATM fees in future.

apparentrly the fees are either charged and rebated or not charged at all

A comment on Whirlpool:-

I am in the US at the moment and have used the ING card twice at the ATMs as I use my credit card for purchases and use cash only where necessary or for tips. When looking at the app after a transaction, the amount shown is the exact converted cost of the withdrawal excluding fees. On the next day, the cost on the transaction changes to include the ATM fee and then a credit for that fee is added to the account. Last amount was a $6 US fee and I was refunded $7.96 in ATM fees

Foreign currency purchases aren't charged a fee. However, such purchases take 1-3 days to settle, so while the pending amount is immediately blocked from available funds (if using Orange Everyday), the final amount could be slightly higher or lower depending on exchange rate variations in the interim.

Don't know what happens if there are insufficient funds to cover any shortfall. It should be explained in the T&Cs but I don't feel like reading those presently.

and the only difference from march is the 5x requirement

Yep, the benefits are already in effect now but will require the monthly card purchases in future.

 

[cgichard]

I experimented with using my ING Orange debit card for a small online overseas purchase in US$ yesterday. The only payment option was via PayPal but instead of using my PayPal account as I would usually have done, I went for the "enter your details" alternative. This morning my ING account has 2 pending transactions -
06 Dec 2017 8:26AM PAYPAL Sy $0.00 and
06 Dec 2017 8:27AM PAYPAL *ORDERS 40 with an amount in A$ that is just under A$2 less than the amount quoted for the transaction if I'd put it directly through PayPal.

That is close to 10% saving for using the ING card - well worthwhile on a larger amount.

 

[SOPOOR]

I experimented with using my ING Orange debit card for a small online overseas purchase in US$ yesterday. The only payment option was via PayPal but instead of using my PayPal account as I would usually have done, I went for the "enter your details" alternative. This morning my ING account has 2 pending transactions -
06 Dec 2017 8:26AM PAYPAL Sy $0.00 and
06 Dec 2017 8:27AM PAYPAL *ORDERS 40 with an amount in A$ that is just under A$2 less than the amount quoted for the transaction if I'd put it directly through PayPal.

That is close to 10% saving for using the ING card - well worthwhile on a larger amount.

Curious. If you entered a ING card directly then why would it come up as PayPal.
I would assume PayPal rate has the 2.5% fee built in so you're essentially saving 2.5% ish overall if I'm not mistaken

 

[cgichard]

Curious. If you entered a ING card directly then why would it come up as PayPal.
I would assume PayPal rate has the 2.5% fee built in so you're essentially saving 2.5% ish overall if I'm not mistaken

I entered the ING card details via the PayPal window ["use any credit card"] offered by PayPal if you don't have an account with them, and/or don't want to use them on this occasion.
I may have exaggerated the saving as I didn't note exactly what PayPal would have charged in A$, but it was certainly more than 2.5% - approx. A$24+ rather than the A$22+ shown on ING.