International Driving Permits/Licences

[OZDUCK]

Sorry I forgot to reply to this earlier.
No big mystery, when I was young I was friends with the son of a French diplomat who was based in Perth.
He lived around the corner and was in my class at school.
We made a deal that I would help him learn English if he taught me French.
Later I studied French at high school and university.
Then I travelled as a young adult and spent time in France, Belgium, Switzerland and Tunisia.
After a long period of no international travel due to the cost of raising children, more recently I have spent more time in France as well as Morocco and especially New Caledonia. Wherever I go I make a point of staying with local people and avoiding tourists. I have even pretended that I don't speak English.
I started that to avoid socialising with other anglophones - Aussies and Brits and Yanks. Not because I disliked them but because I wasn't in France to speak English.
Over the years I have made friends in Paris, Lyon, Marseille and Nouméa and it is probably those friendships which have improved my language skills the most.
Although I have completed an advanced French course online through a Paris unviersity and also paid for some private tutoring here before each trip to make sure I am not rusty when I arrive! I would not want my French speaking friends to feel like I was using them as unpaid teachers!

Thanks for this. I can see why you are so fluent in French - well done. I can speaksome words in a few languages but my Australian accent is so strong I murder them all.

Something that might, or might not, be of interest to you is that back in the day one of my co-workers was born in France and spent her first 20 or so years there before moving to the UK and eventually to Oz where she has lived for about 30 years. She says that when she visits France she gets complimented for speaking such "classical French". Because she has been out of the country so long she hasn't picked up all the new words and "franglais" that has slipped into the language, despite the best efforts of the Académie française.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Thanks for this. I can see why you are so fluent in French - well done. I can speaksome words in a few languages but my Australian accent is so strong I murder them all.

Something that might, or might not, be of interest to you is that back in the day one of my co-workers was born in France and spent her first 20 or so years there before moving to the UK and eventually to Oz where she has lived for about 30 years. She says that when she visits France she gets complimented for speaking such "classical French". Because she has been out of the country so long she hasn't picked up all the new words and "franglais" that has slipped into the language, despite the best efforts of the Académie française.

That is interesting.
Obviously I can't hear my own accent but apparently I have never had an Australian accent in French. I used to be told I had an English accent but recently I've been told my current accent is a bit like a Canadian French accent.
I mention that because the Québécois speak "classical French" like your friend - or at least, pre-revolutionary French so more than 200 years old!
I have actually made an effort recently to speak more like contemporary French people. Hence "oauis" instead of "oui", using the "on" ("one") form of verbs instead of "nous" ("us") and dropping the "ne" in spoken French (so "I do not know" is written "Je ne sais pas" but now spoken "je sais pas").
I have also picked up a bit of argot (street French) and Verlan. Verlan is a kind of rebellious youth street french which works by reversing syllables.
So the verlan for a woman is "femme' reversed to "meuf", the verlan for "arab" is "rebeu".
However as the verlan becomes popularised, they reverse it again to keep it edgy.
So for example the word for arab has been reversed again from "rebeu" to "beure".
The word "verlan" itself is an inversion of "l'envers" or "the inverse".
Important note - verlan is spoken slang, so it's the sound which is reversed, not the spelling. That's why the silent 's' from "l'invers" disappears in "verlan".
A final interesting note on accents - apparently I speak (very little) Czech with a French, not English, accent.

 

[RooFlyer]

I mention that because the Québécois speak "classical French" like your friend - or at least, pre-revolutionary French so more than 200 years old!

Only up to a point. I lived in northern Quebec for a year and found it very amusing that they sprinkled their jealously-guarded 'vrai Français' with expressions such as 'le lunch', 'le bench' and 'la map geologique' . I tried and tried to learn the language, but all my workmates and friends there insisted on speaking English with me, to improve theirs!!

 

[OZDUCK]

That is interesting.
Obviously I can't hear my own accent but apparently I have never had an Australian accent in French. I used to be told I had an English accent but recently I've been told my current accent is a bit like a Canadian French accent.
I mention that because the Québécois speak "classical French" like your friend - or at least, pre-revolutionary French so more than 200 years old!
I have actually made an effort recently to speak more like contemporary French people. Hence "oauis" instead of "oui", using the "on" ("one") form of verbs instead of "nous" ("us") and dropping the "ne" in spoken French (so "I do not know" is written "Je ne sais pas" but now spoken "je sais pas").
I have also picked up a bit of argot (street French) and Verlan. Verlan is a kind of rebellious youth street french which works by reversing syllables.
So the verlan for a woman is "femme' reversed to "meuf", the verlan for "arab" is "rebeu".
However as the verlan becomes popularised, they reverse it again to keep it edgy.
So for example the word for arab has been reversed again from "rebeu" to "beure".
The word "verlan" itself is an inversion of "l'envers" or "the inverse".
Important note - verlan is spoken slang, so it's the sound which is reversed, not the spelling.
A final interesting note on accents - apparently I speak (very little) Czech with a French, not English, accent.

Not to derail this thread too much more but my understanding is that the French consider the Quebecois to speak a sort of patois. Partly because the origins are more than 200 years separated from France but also because some English words have drifted into the language. Apparently, especially with regards to commercial or industrial words. I gather, from a French Canadian friend, that they are a bit haughty about it.

I see that verlan is described as a bit like "pig latin" in English, with the big difference being that it is actively spoken - weird.

(My one claim to any useful French language abilities was that In Bilbao the person at our rented apartment was unable to speak any English but we managed to get matters organised in French. I think my Australian accent was matched by her Basque accent. )

 

[tgh]

More ot chatter ...….My Dil is a native french speaker.. so it seemed... er respectful.. to attempt to deliver my speech at the marriage celebration in both languages
I chased around in au and found an on line tutor (nice young fellow with one french parent) to record my speech and critique my delivery
I tried really hard and the whole of the speech francais and anglaise went over very well.
Fast forward to #2 son's pithy summary... (who spent some time in french Canada)
He quite shattered me when he said I speak french like an Australian
Truth is I can speak more Spanish than I can French and that ain't much anyway
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY : IT'S A BUMMER TO GROW UP IN A FUNCTIONALLY MONOLINGUAL COUNTRY

 

[drron]

Well at one stage I could speak a few phrases of ~ 40 languages.But all with such a strong aussie accent that I always boasted i could murder 40 languages.
Came about as for 5 years I was foreman of the student Christmas shift at the old Redfern Mail Exchange and it was quite a multicultural work force.

I was foreman as I was quite the leftie and in my first year the workers called a strike.management called down the student shift.Myself and one other refused to cross the picket line and we were called out.But we were the only 2 who continued.We were sent to the Mail sorting school for the duration of the strike.I got to the second highest grade of Mail sorting hence the next year when I elected to do the night shift I was made foreman due to my qualifications.My real learning started then courtesy of the foreman of the regulars.Really important stuff like how to cause the sorting machine to malfunction.

 

[Cossie]

Way off topic, the boss was born in Vancouver, she spoke German at home as her first language. I wind her up by asking why as a Canadian she isn't bilingual, i.e. she doesn't speak French

My ex brother in law is a bit of a francophile and lived in Paris for quite a few years, locals were surprised he was Australian, they thought he was Paris born and bred!

 

[drron]

I apparently speak with a Washington state accent when in the USA.One year we followed the Grey whale migration up the Oregon and Washington coasts.One day in Washington state it was miserable with rain,wind and freezing cold.They had volunteers on every headland to answer questions.On one headland I felt sorry for the fellow as he looked so miserable so I got out and had a long chat with him.When i said I was going he said-"I know you are not from town so do you live a little south of here."I replied yes,just a few thousand miles south.

However in the South I am not understood by the locals.Mrsdrron has to translate for me as she can do a really good southern drawl.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I apparently speak with a Washington state accent when in the USA.One year we followed the Grey whale migration up the Oregon and Washington coasts.One day in Washington state it was miserable with rain,wind and freezing cold.They had volunteers on every headland to answer questions.On one headland I felt sorry for the fellow as he looked so miserable so I got out and had a long chat with him.When i said I was going he said-"I know you are not from town so do you live a little south of here."I replied yes,just a few thousand miles south.

However in the South I am not understood by the locals.Mrsdrron has to translate for me as she can do a really good southern drawl.

I still remember when I was 19 I was on the metro in Paris.
Back then there were first class carriages, but they were only first class during peak hour.
A ticket inspector approached me and asked to see my ticket.
I handed it to her and she exclaimed "Mais vous êtes en première!" ( But you are in first class!).
I replied in French, explaining that I had not realised what time it was.
She replied "Alors, vous vennez pas de Paris." (Oh, so you're not from Paris.)
I felt so proud!

 

[OZDUCK]

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY : IT'S A BUMMER TO GROW UP IN A FUNCTIONALLY MONOLINGUAL COUNTRY

We had a meal with one of my wife's distant relatives in Paris. He is German born but lives and works in Paris and obviously also speaks French. His wife is Japanese and speaks German and French. She teaches local (French) students Japanese but the textbooks she uses are actually from the Western Australian Education Dept. She translates the English into French for her students as she has found the layout of the books far better than the ones she could source locally. She was telling us all this in excellent English but then said she only spoke three languages - Japanese, French and German. We pointed out that she was speaking to us in English but she said that she didn't consider her English good enough to be counted as she hadn't done any English courses or obtained a Degree etc

 

[justinbrett]

Sorry to bring the thread back to topic - The purpose of an IDP is to translate your licence - so it seems daft that an English speaking country would ask for one if you hold an Australian licence.

And that’s been my experience - I’ve driven (and rented) throughout the anglosphere (UK/IE/US/CA/NZ) and never needed one.

Your IDP is worth nothing on its own - the legality is still held in the licence itself - it’s basically a fancy cover note. I did need it for Spain though.

 

[OATEK]

Looks like the NRMA has caught up with this thread, based on the email today:

 

[Brissy1]

This is a special case that will have no relevance to many, but the IDP is an absolute must if riding a motorcycle in the Chiang Mai area (and particularly on the Mae Hong Son loop).
Last year I was riding there for about a week. During that time we were stopped at police roadblocks about 10 times. I can‘t be certain if they were official roadblocks or just for a bit of freelance wage augmentation... but the police were fining people about USD50 if they didn’t have an IDP. Fortunately we both had one - could have been an expensive lesson otherwise...

I rode that Mae Hong Son loop earlier this year with my brother. Brilliant ride! My brother had an expired IDP so he was ok with that, I paid the fine but it was I think $20...less than an IDP cost so that made me feel better! I hadn't even thought about IDP before. Next time I'll might photocopy his! Seriously though, check that you are complying with your international insurance policy if bike riding. Next month LA renting car (avis) again, never had issues anywhere except Chaing Mai and the Cook Islands.
Edit: and the Thai police gave me a receipt, he said show that if picked up again, good for 3 days. Fantastic system, can only be fined once every 3 days.

 

[opusman]

The purpose of an IDP is to translate your licence

No, that is not the purpose (or at least not the main purpose).

 

[justinbrett]

No, that is not the purpose (or at least not the main purpose).

True, the main purpose is so motoring clubs around the world can profit from it (ever wonder why they’re issued by them and not the government departments - in most cases at least).

The second, and most practical purpose is to translate your licence. Which is why a licence issued in an English speaking country is accepted without an IDP throughout the major English speaking countries.

 

[JohnM]

No, that is not the purpose (or at least not the main purpose).

Could you elaborate please?

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Could you elaborate please?

There's not much to translate and the key terms (name, address, etc) are mutually comprehensible between most European languages.
I believe the main function is to provide a standardised system of documentation of the type of vehicle you are licensed to drive.
Without it there would be no way of knowing what an A class or B class or C class license in WA was, for example.

 

[justinbrett]

There's not much to translate and the key terms (name, address, etc) are mutually comprehensible between most European languages.
I believe the main function is to provide a standardised system of documentation of the type of vehicle you are licensed to drive.
Without it there would be no way of knowing what an A class or B class or C class license in WA was, for example.

No, the standardised system is defined in the 1949 Geneva Convention of Road Traffic, and the 1968 Vienna Convention of Road Traffic. The 1949 convention included as an annex the IDP format, including the requirement that it is translated to each of the UNs official languages. The system itself is not an IDP and as Australia is a signatory, our licences are compliant which is why we can drive throughout the English speaking world (amongst other places) without an IDP.

 

[Brissy1]

I checked California as I'm renting there next, found this (their bold type, I'm not shouting )"The State of California does not recognize an international driver's license (IDP) as a valid driver's license. California does recognize a valid driver's license that is issued in a foreign jurisdiction (country, state, territory) where the license holder is a resident."

 

[defurax]

I checked California as I'm renting there next, found this (their bold type, I'm not shouting )"The State of California does not recognize an international driver's license (IDP) as a valid driver's license. California does recognize a valid driver's license that is issued in a foreign jurisdiction (country, state, territory) where the license holder is a resident."

The IDP is never recognised as a valid driver's license.