International flights to/from CBR

[rechoboam]

A 737-700ER can actually do CBR-SIN. Not that anyone sane would put themselves onto a narrow body for such a flight though.

The only way I can see it happening is SQ doing the run in an A333, connecting to its European services. Even then, I would imagine they need plenty of freight to make it commercially viable.

Maybe they could haul Kevin Rudds ego to Sin, that would fill the space

 

[Mattg]

No, no mention of airlines. I would imagine that Air NZ/Virgin would operte the trans-Tasman routes but as far as Singapore goes, I'm not sure whose game enough. It would likely only be twice or thrice weekly. They would need a good plan but good money could be made, especially if they use the flight as a feeder to flights to Europe (e.g. SQ). It's just a matter of luring government travelers and people currently flying through SYD. They could do it by offering cheaper fares I guess, but then again they'd need to make money, and we're used to be charged more from CBR anyway...

 

[Justchecking]

The great limiting factor is as always frequency. Business traffic needs daily and even leisure traffic needs more than twice weekly. If you've only got 2 weeks off losing 2-3 days either side due to schedule just makes the trip unviable. Trans-tasman on a 180 seater I can see that 5 times weekly....maybe. Asia though is a whole other issue. Is there really enough traffic in cbr to justify it? You certainly wont get anything other than a 737\A320 flying out of there. Not unless some plumb defence force contract comes up. We do have to face facts that for anything other than the largest cities we just don't have the traffic to support such services.

 

[harvyk]

The great limiting factor is as always frequency. Business traffic needs daily and even leisure traffic needs more than twice weekly. If you've only got 2 weeks off losing 2-3 days either side due to schedule just makes the trip unviable.

Disagree, a CBR-AKL or CBR-SIN flight does not need to be daily for it to be successful. They could probably even get away with a twice weekly service to SIN (on a B767 or a A330), but make it a Saturday service for leisure travelers and a Monday service for business travelers with it's SIN-CBR service on a Friday and a Sunday to suit timings of both groups of travelers with the plane overnighting in CBR, and there is nothing to stop a CBR-xSYD-SIN vv service to cover the other days of the week.

The problem they had with NAN is how much business was done between CBR and NAN, and how many holidays in NAN do Canberran's take? A SIN service on the other hand opens up things like LHR-xSIN-CBR or CBR-xSIN-HKG etc... An AKL service would open up CBR-xAKL-LAX as an option. OK, there is a NAN-LAX service that could have been turned into CBR-NAN-LAX. But AFAIK, NAN is not a common stopover point for AU-US flights these days.

Of course choice of aircraft will be a big one. Lets say for example QF did the run, if you had a choice of a 20 year old B767 with main screen entertainment only (and no skybeds) for a direct CBR-SIN run, or you have a choice of a new A380 (with AVOD and skybeds) for a SYD-SIN run, I expect the direct CBR-SIN service would be a failure. That said, if the plane used for the service was at a similar level to the SYD-SIN options, then the service would probably work.

 

[*A Flyer]

The CBR-WLG and CBR-AKL should be goers. I suspect you will end up seeing an early morning AKL-CBR-AKL service (to link up with the afternoon bank to North America and the morning arrivals from North America) and the afternoon WLG-CBR-WLG with the Auckland aircraft heading to SYD or MEL in the afternoon and the Wellington aircraft doing SYD or MEL in the morning.

SIN is an oddball. My first thought would be that you would have EK do something weird like DXB-SIN-CBR-AKL and return with one of their smaller aircraft. SQ may work with an A330 two or three times a week or, god forbid, a SIN-CBR-HBA-SIN triangle service to try and ensure that every Australian city has SQ type service.

The other possibility is that D7 or OQ operating to Sydney West (Canberra) Airport a la Ryanair.

 

[docjames]

If you look at the number of internation flights ADL has (population of Adelaide itself, approx 1.1m) - and then consider incl Queanbeyan Canberra popn is ~ 400k, even allowing for greater area utilising the flights, it's not looking promising, especially with SYD a short hop away (by road or air).

Sunshine coast will manage a single flight but has far greater, year round attraction than CBR. The demand is very seasonal (allowing for the influx of non-residents during parliamentary sitting).

CNS is obviously smaller but attracts significant inbound tourism, and has a geographical advantage towards Asia (to some extent) as well as a lack of alternatives within reasonable distance.

How many International flights does NTL get? It's proximity to SYD excludes it. CBR is in a somewhat similar position.


Having said all of that, I could seen trans-tasman flights getting off the ground (seasonally) but it would have to be either heavily subsidised by the government/airport at one or both ends. CBR-AKL or CBR-WLG would be the two most likely. Anything else is pretty much fantasy or relying on even more massive subsidies to support (by either the airline prepared to burn through cash or the airport/government).

 

[Mattg]

Disagree, a CBR-AKL or CBR-SIN flight does not need to be daily for it to be successful. They could probably even get away with a twice weekly service to SIN (on a B767 or a A330), but make it a Saturday service for leisure travelers and a Monday service for business travelers with it's SIN-CBR service on a Friday and a Sunday to suit timings of both groups of travelers with the plane overnighting in CBR, and there is nothing to stop a CBR-xSYD-SIN vv service to cover the other days of the week.

Of course choice of aircraft will be a big one. Lets say for example QF did the run, if you had a choice of a 20 year old B767 with main screen entertainment only (and no skybeds) for a direct CBR-SIN run, or you have a choice of a new A380 (with AVOD and skybeds) for a SYD-SIN run, I expect the direct CBR-SIN service would be a failure. That said, if the plane used for the service was at a similar level to the SYD-SIN options, then the service would probably work.

Using the A330 that does QF81/82 ADL-SIN-ADL could work. It used to travel onwards to Mumbai I think, returning the following day and flying back to Adelaide the following evening. QF recently stopped doing this and the plane now returns immediately to ADL. QF could send the plane to CBR and back, much like they did with Mumbai, then fly it back to ADL the following evening. This would only need to be, say, twice weekly. Get the days right (e.g. leaving SIN on Fridays/Sundays with the plane arrving/departing CBR on Saturdays/Mondays) and make the price attractive, and QF could have a winner. It could also feed traffic to/from CBR into QF's Singapore to Europe route/s that would otherwise not use QF (the more direct option could attract many people).That being said though, they'd probably still never do it..

 

[Mattg]

Having booked a CBR-AKL trip during the last sale, it got me thinking about why QF doesn't fly CBR-NZ direct. The sale fare for SYD-AKL was $199, and (it wasn't on sale, it was a red-e-deal) the CBR-SYD leg was more than $130. All up I paid nearly the cost of the flight to AKL on the 25 minute CBR-SYD leg. In fact, the return leg was $151 AKL-SYD and about the same price for SYD-CBR.

So the cynical side of me says, why would QF want to put on direct flights (presumably at a lower cost to the customer) when people are willing and able to transit through SYD or MEL and pay significantly more? Perhaps this is a reason (not the only, but still) that CBR doesn't have international flights and there are currently no plans for them.

I would be interested to see QF's response though if (say) Air NZ started direct flights NZ-CBR at significantly lower prices than QF's via SYD/MEL/BNE TT flights.

 

[RWJ777]

I see that AJ's speech to the National Press Club today flagged that the 787 Dreamliner could operate out of CBR on an international route from 2016. The rider was QFi returning to profitability, so a big threshold there.

QFi profitability aside, it would be a big ask to fill a 787 from CBR especially given the easy access from CBR to SYD via the hourly or so CityFlyer and QantasLink services.

I can't help but therefore think that AJ's comments may have been for the benefit of what would have been the largely ACT resident audience at the Press Club, including the aviation policy and regulatory crowd.

 

[fersea]

Having booked a CBR-AKL trip during the last sale, it got me thinking about why QF doesn't fly CBR-NZ direct. The sale fare for SYD-AKL was $199, and (it wasn't on sale, it was a red-e-deal) the CBR-SYD leg was more than $130. All up I paid nearly the cost of the flight to AKL on the 25 minute CBR-SYD leg. In fact, the return leg was $151 AKL-SYD and about the same price for SYD-CBR.

So the cynical side of me says, why would QF want to put on direct flights (presumably at a lower cost to the customer) when people are willing and able to transit through SYD or MEL and pay significantly more? Perhaps this is a reason (not the only, but still) that CBR doesn't have international flights and there are currently no plans for them.

I would be interested to see QF's response though if (say) Air NZ started direct flights NZ-CBR at significantly lower prices than QF's via SYD/MEL/BNE TT flights.

Sadly without Jetstar and Tiger here that is what we get. We badly need mor competition here.

 

[jetlagger]

I see that AJ's speech to the National Press Club today flagged that the 787 Dreamliner could operate out of CBR on an international route from 2016. The rider was QFi returning to profitability, so a big threshold there.

QFi profitability aside, it would be a big ask to fill a 787 from CBR especially given the easy access from CBR to SYD via the hourly or so CityFlyer

Unless it.. the motive would be to provide service to the collection of overpaid, underworked, overrated politicians (political circus) on another tax payer funded junket to some obscure destination for a defiantly & less than most valid reasoning.
The precedent has been set..

 

[harvyk]

Unless it.. the motive would be to provide service to the collection of overpaid, underworked, overrated politicians (political circus) on another tax payer funded junket to some obscure destination for a defiantly & less than most valid reasoning.
The precedent has been set..

With exception to about 4 of them, federal pollies don't actually live here. In fact the majority of them live out in the 5 major capital cities, so with exception to 4 of them, pollies don't really care about international flights from CBR.

I see that AJ's speech to the National Press Club today flagged that the 787 Dreamliner could operate out of CBR on an international route from 2016. The rider was QFi returning to profitability, so a big threshold there.

QFi profitability aside, it would be a big ask to fill a 787 from CBR especially given the easy access from CBR to SYD via the hourly or so CityFlyer and QantasLink services.

I can't help but therefore think that AJ's comments may have been for the benefit of what would have been the largely ACT resident audience at the Press Club, including the aviation policy and regulatory crowd.

AJ's comments would be targeted for local audiences with little intention of actually doing anything. As much as I hate the international airport-CBR flights, the reality is that there is a very high frequency of flights from CBR-SYD/MEL vv, to the point it's more like a local bus service. Both SYD and MEL and to a lesser extend BNE are all very easy to get to, and in the case of SYD, it's really only a short drive / bus / train trip which does not exactly require flying to get to for those who are looking at bringing down costs.

 

[markis10]

With exception to about 4 of them, federal pollies don't actually live here. In fact the majority of them live out in the 5 major capital cities, so with exception to 4 of them, pollies don't really care about international flights from CBR..

All them live in Canberra, they just don't have their home there, a minor detail but an important one when it comes to allowances and claiming rent on that home as an expense because they are away from home.

 

[Skyring]

All them live in Canberra, they just don't have their home there, a minor detail but an important one when it comes to allowances and claiming rent on that home as an expense because they are away from home.

Well, no, they don't live here. They fly in on Monday mornings and scramble out again on Thursday afternoons. They generally have a unit that they are leasing (or buying with their generous travel allowance), but come the weekend you won't find too many in Canberra.

I suspect that Julia gets away on weekends as well.

 

[harvyk]

Well, no, they don't live here. They fly in on Monday mornings and scramble out again on Thursday afternoons. They generally have a unit that they are leasing (or buying with their generous travel allowance), but come the weekend you won't find too many in Canberra.

I suspect that Julia gets away on weekends as well.

That was pretty much my understanding. I believe Julia is about the only non-Canberran pollie who lives, but then she has her own RAAF jet which goes anywhere she wants. So I don't think she's too worried about international flights from CBR.

 

[markis10]

Well, no, they don't live here. They fly in on Monday mornings and scramble out again on Thursday afternoons. They generally have a unit that they are leasing (or buying with their generous travel allowance), but come the weekend you won't find too many in Canberra.

I suspect that Julia gets away on weekends as well.

Then how do they get the generous living away from home allowance, or are you saying no one "lives" in Canberra LOL . From a public service perspective they are very much living in Canberra, and I am not sure what other perspective there is for Canberra, it just happens their permanent residence is not in Canberra.

 

[harvyk]

Then how do they get the generous living away from home allowance, or are you saying no one "lives" in Canberra LOL . From a public service perspective they are very much living in Canberra, and I am not sure what other perspective there is for Canberra, it just happens their permanent residence is not in Canberra.

There is lots of perspectives for Canberra, the house on the hill forms but a portion of our town. Yes the public service is certainly a big employer in this town, but it's by no means the only one. I've been in the workforce here for 12 years, and I've never held a public service job, and I'm unlikely to any time soon, and I've been to a few different employers in that time.

Back onto the topic of pollies living here. AFAIK pollies can pull tax schemes with the best of them. No doubt they have all sorts of things in place so that they "live" in the right place to earn maximum allowances and tax breaks. The fact remains that they are blow-in's who arrive nice and early on sitting weeks, and leave the second they can. A good proportion of the year parliament doesn't sit, therefore with exception to the 5 federal pollies I can think of (2 senators, 2 representatives and the PM), the rest are no where to be seen in non sitting weeks.

 

[IrishPete]

While there is a high frequency of flights to and from Canberra and the international gateways, they actually stop quite early at night, which can make some connections difficult. It certainly often limits my choice of international flights. And can make for tense moments on the way back to Canberra, your flight to Canberra is the last one of the day and you experience any delays.

My most recent trip, which should have been a seamless connection from Etihad to Virgin, Virgin's check-in counter in the Sydney international terminal wasn't working (two staff sitting doing nothing, apparently some technical problem) so had to lug my suitcase on the bus to Domestic, and join the domestic check-in queue. Couldn't use self-check-in because of the code-share, or some other reason (I tried). Had to queue-jump in the end, as time was frittering away. Not a nice way to end a long journey.

Pete

 

[Major]

What are the limitations of the CBR runway/taxiways/apron ? Are the airbridges suitable for widebody acft ?

 

[harvyk]

What are the limitations of the CBR runway/taxiways/apron ? Are the airbridges suitable for widebody acft ?

They can take 767's at least, we've seen B747's from time to time as well. Don't know if the plan is to make the terminal able to take the heavies.