Involuntary seat change

[ozbeachbabe]

I do not think that there is anything wrong with a CL/WP1 requesting that lower status level members be bumped provided that it doesn't result in a middle seat allocation etc I also think that there is some point in having families seated at the back. I have come to see this now personally

What if the person being bumped to make way for a CL member is travelling with others - do you expect the family group to be split up or do you start shuffling the travelling companions of the lowly WP & shift them back also?

Why don't CL/WP1 pax just learn to allocate their seats at the time of booking which would allow them to select row 4 or 5 on a 737 which isn't open for selection to the underlings like WP & SG possibly until around T-80.

I don't think it's fair that someone else is bumped from when they've taken the time and effort to select their seat in favour of someone who has had a golden opportunity to do it but hasn't been bothered.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

With respect, I beg to disagree.

Firstly, I am not aware that P1 has this unpublished benefits. Stand ready to be corrected if that's incorrect.

Secondly, the concept of bumping others to satisfy one's own desires is not at all different to that of a family wishing to sit together - at the front.

First up, it already exists. Someone has an infant and you're a CL that selected that seat months ago - BAM - goodbye and welcome to middle-seat hell.

Here are some examples of when WP+ need the ability to boot others out:
- Low/no status members who can obtain row 4 before T80
- To take staff out of premium seating, exit rows etc..
- To allow families to be together (eg: WP + family needs extra seat and its taken from a bronze pax that didnt pay for selection)
- Upgraders should get last preference of seating. EG: bronze redeems points for F ticket and allocates 2A. It's fair that a WP kicks them out to 5A
- When there is 50+ seats available on a 737 and a silver gets 4B to ruin your day. The ability to put your shadow back and kick them to 22B

Obviously there are times when it's inappropriate like a CL wants 4C but you're a WP and selected it long ago.

For the most part I think it would be a positive move.

 

[JessicaTam]

Now there's a thought, advance seat selection for a platinum shadow.

 

[Katie]

With international flights more attention is given to pre-seating families, groups or even couples the day prior so even those pax who had not prepaid seating will be seated together. Makes it much easier on the day as the only ones left to be allocated seats will be solo travellers who haven't done OLCI.

ozbeachbabe, is that mainly for families on the one PNR (& with the same surname)? I'm travelling with Mr Katie and Little Miss to the US in Oct, and I'm on a separate PNR as I'm planning to return two weeks later. I've got us seated together thanks to the WP line, but I do worry a bit that as we're not on the one PNR we could be separated along the way. Me not sharing a surname doesn't seem to help matters.
Even if something got messed up, Little Miss should still stick with her Dad given they're on the same PNR, so I realise I'm probably being a bit paranoid. Just want to make sure Little Miss doesn't end up seated next to someone who doesn't like sitting next to kids. Or doesn't like to help change DVDs in her DVD player ...

 

[harvyk]

Personally, I would be happy to accept being bumped by someone of a high status or a family since for me personally that seems fair. I guess it is all subjective.

For someone who is a CL, there is no higher status, and been a CL you are about the last person on the plane who is likely to be downgraded, either in class or seat number for any operational reason unless there really is absolutely no other option.

Not exactly a gallantry statement above.

 

[harvyk]

First up, it already exists. Someone has an infant and you're a CL that selected that seat months ago - BAM - goodbye and welcome to middle-seat hell.

Here are some examples of when WP+ need the ability to boot others out:
- Low/no status members who can obtain row 4 before T80
- To take staff out of premium seating, exit rows etc..
- To allow families to be together (eg: WP + family needs extra seat and its taken from a bronze pax that didnt pay for selection)
- Upgraders should get last preference of seating. EG: bronze redeems points for F ticket and allocates 2A. It's fair that a WP kicks them out to 5A
- When there is 50+ seats available on a 737 and a silver gets 4B to ruin your day. The ability to put your shadow back and kick them to 22B

Obviously there are times when it's inappropriate like a CL wants 4C but you're a WP and selected it long ago.

For the most part I think it would be a positive move.

As a higher status pax, you already have access to allocate the best seats on the plane on booking. If you couldn't take 5 minutes out of your day to get the best seats allocated (hell do it whilst booking) then you should be left with the best of the dregs. I see no reason why a lowly NB should be kicked out of 1A just because a WP+ didn't take the time to allocated it to themselves.

It should also be noted that whilst infants will allow you to nab the bulkhead prior to T-80 even without status, I don't believe it can knock someone out of the bulkhead if they have already allocated it.

 

[pagingjoan]

<snip>
It should also be noted that whilst infants will allow you to nab the bulkhead prior to T-80 even without status, I don't believe it can knock someone out of the bulkhead if they have already allocated it.

In my experience, it can do just that!
Have had front row A seat selected well before date of flight, in J, with Plat status - and been bumped without notice to accommodate parents with baby.
Was not thrilled at the time but nothing to be done. Them's the breaks.

 

[amaroo]

In my experience, it can do just that!
Have had front row A seat selected well before date of flight, in J, with Plat status - and been bumped without notice to accommodate parents with baby.
Was not thrilled at the time but nothing to be done. Them's the breaks.

Definitely happens on BA. First hand experience in the F cabin.

 

[pagingjoan]

Definitely happens on BA. First hand experience in the F cabin.

And mine was QF, so that's two data points.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

As a higher status pax, you already have access to allocate the best seats on the plane on booking. If you couldn't take 5 minutes out of your day to get the best seats allocated (hell do it whilst booking) then you should be left with the best of the dregs. I see no reason why a lowly NB should be kicked out of 1A just because a WP+ didn't take the time to allocated it to themselves.

It should also be noted that whilst infants will allow you to nab the bulkhead prior to T-80 even without status, I don't believe it can knock someone out of the bulkhead if they have already allocated it.

Sometimes bookings are made on the day of travel or within t80. At this point there can be bronzes in great seats so its nothing to do with not trying to select a seat.

Additionally in emirates its a free for all on all seats from day 1. This scenario left me with 40B on a a380 despite booking 2 months ahead.

Some situations certainly need bump action.

 

[legroom]

Definitely happens on BA. First hand experience in the F cabin.

We are yet to see any whinge when that happens.

Nobody would be so low to 'compete' against infants.

That's the implied risk booking bassinette seats.

For my upcoming SQ suites, I deliberately avoid the bassinette row (2CD) even though the risk is very small.

 

[harvyk]

Some situations certainly need bump action.

You still haven't convinced me that last minute (or at least later) requests from status pax should trump a lower status pax that has in good faith selected appropriate seats. Just a couple of pages ago the argument was all about how people should get organised as early as possible, and now the argument has changed to except when my status is bigger than your status.

 

[amaroo]

We are yet to see any whinge when that happens.

Nobody would be so low to 'compete' against infants.

That's the implied risk booking bassinette seats.

For my upcoming SQ suites, I deliberately avoid the bassinette row (2CD) even though the risk is very small.

Very true. Beautiful baby and a perfect passenger!

Funny thing was, due to the move.....I got to sit closer to my kids

 

[legroom]

..... Why don't CL/WP1 pax just learn to allocate their seats at the time of booking which would allow them to select row 4 or 5 on a 737 which isn't open for selection to the underlings like WP & SG possibly until around T-80....

You do not understand.

So, I will be patient for your benefits.

I do not care nor wish to do such things as I am known (and indeed allowed by QF) to do what I like / want .... at any time.

Now, if that means bumping you off your carefully selected seat which you had chosen 6 months ago, then there is "nothing wrong" with it.

Again - for your benefits, I am born to rule !

(Tongue firmly implanted in cheek)

 

[legroom]

..... it's inappropriate like a CL wants 4C but you're a WP and selected it long ago....

That's the only sensible part I (and I am sure, most others) could agree with.

 

[CMak]

When we travelled overseas with our kids we generally didn't sit with them from about the age of 10 as we sat in J and they were in Y. There were never any suggestions that they would be able to sit with us. We expected them to behave and enjoy the trip! Our philosophy was that when they could sit in J when they could afford it.
The cabin attendants knew that they belonged with us and they could come and get us if there was a problem.

 

[JohnK]

I think we should all agree to disagree on this topic. In the end, it can never be fair because there will always be someone who end up in better seats than others. So let's forget about it, move on, and we'll all arrive to the destination in some hours.

I can agree this is a difficult situation.

Yes it may not sound fair that some have a better seat than others. But there should be some reward for those with status who book early and pre-allocate their sests. You should not be rewarded because you left things for the last minute.

I have bulkhead allocated for next 3 international QF flights. I can tell you right now it would be close to torture to spend the 8 or so hours in 64F instead of my chosen 43H.

That would be totally wrong as well and if it happened once in a blue moon you could possibly tolerate it. Unfortunately though the system is corrupt or broken and people that are putting in the time and effort are being disadvantaged regularly by those who could not be bothered and are vocal about it.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

You still haven't convinced me that last minute (or at least later) requests from status pax should trump a lower status pax that has in good faith selected appropriate seats. Just a couple of pages ago the argument was all about how people should get organised as early as possible, and now the argument has changed to except when my status is bigger than your status.

Are you saying that as a CLP1, if you book a flight last minute (probably at a large premium too) that you shouldn't be able to have an aisle seat, just because 150 other non-status passengers have checked in?

There's certain circumstances for it- obviously not for the reasons you first think of.

 

[legroom]

Are you saying that as a CLP1, if you book a flight last minute (probably at a large premium too) that you shouldn't be able to have an aisle seat, just because 150 other non-status passengers have checked in?.

I would understand that scenario only if those non-status pax had only just checked in at the airport and have no clue between 5B and 21A (in J).

In such a setting, they would just as likely to shrug and accept it, not knowing any better.

It is materially different from a status pax (be it WP or SG) who knows and follows the system to pre-allocate their seats in advance (and further improve it at T-80), only to be ejected because someone else cannot accept that being disorganised / slothful should still have its own rewards courtesy of the CL tag.

It reminds me of the "dog eat dog" aphorism - hardly something the human race should strive for.

 

[JohnK]

Are you saying that as a CLP1, if you book a flight last minute (probably at a large premium too) that you shouldn't be able to have an aisle seat, just because 150 other non-status passengers have checked in?

That would entirely depend on which aisle seat you wanted.

If the flight was nearly full and you wanted 4C or 4D and you were able to push that person out of their seat that will more than likely put that person in a middle seat. Not good if that person is a high status frequent flyer.