Involuntary seat change

[JohnK]

Gee tell us what you really think. Tell me if the needs of a family are so unimportant to you, why should your need to sit in a specific seat be any more important?

You are still persevering with the line of thinking that a single person preallocated bulkhead should move to accommodate a family to be seated together as they do not have status or could not be bothered allocating seats together?

Keep dreaming. Or simply stump up the cash to select the best seats available to you at time of booking.

 

[BadgerBoi]

You are still persevering with the line of thinking that a single person preallocated bulkhead should move to accommodate a family to be seated together as they do not have status or could not be bothered allocating seats together?

Keep dreaming. Or simply stump up the cash to select the best seats available to you at time of booking.

Why spend the cash when you could just turn up at the airport and whine about things until you got your own way?

 

[zachary.august]

With international flights more attention is given to pre-seating families, groups or even couples the day prior so even those pax who had not prepaid seating will be seated together. Makes it much easier on the day as the only ones left to be allocated seats will be solo travellers who haven't done OLCI.

You're

If you've selected your seat weeks or months in advance even if you're not able to do OLCI, other people shouldn't be able to select your seat as it would show as occupied. If that was the case there wouldn't be any point in anybody pre-selecting seats.

I don't think the airlines would consider the primary purpose of a codeshare arrangement whether or not a pax can do OLCI - I suspect it probably more along the lines of making money.



I don't know whether an actual seat number is in the CL profile like "pax always wants 4A" - it may have something like "please don't seat row 1 or please seat row 1". I don't think most CL members realise they can pre-allocate seats as they just assume having a request in their profile does all that for them.

An astute PA may well allocate a seat for them which gives them the impression the system automatically does it. I'm quite certain if a CL pax got 5C & a WP had pre-allocated 4C that it would remain that way ie the WP wouldn't be bumped.

Sometimes if a agent or client makes a booking they won't know the pax is a CL member & therefore don't put the ffn in the booking so by the time they checkin & hand the CL card over there may only be middle seats/aft seats available so staff would obviously try and get a better seat for them.



The funny thing is sometimes if a CL member wants an earlier flight they may be told no problem but there's only middle seats left & they're quite okay about that & may say "I don't care a seat's a seat" or "I don't care as I get home an hour earlier" when it's an NB that will complain when they get a middle seat saying "why don't I have an aisle/window seat because I have a request in my profile".

You're probably very right about the PA point my PA would do that I have no doubt I agree 100% about the earlier flight point to me a seat is a seat unlike people like JohnK who clearly don't care about the needs of a family. If I was ever approached regarding moving for a family even to a middle seat in Y I would do it because I would hope that even if I lacked CL people would do it for me. Comes down to a respect thing and how you look at life.

 

[Hvr]

You're probably very right about the PA point my PA would do that I have no doubt I agree 100% about the earlier flight point to me a seat is a seat unlike people like JohnK who clearly don't care about the needs of a family. If I was ever approached regarding moving for a family even to a middle seat in Y I would do it because I would hope that even if I lacked CL people would do it for me. Comes down to a respect thing and how you look at life.

I haven't seen where people like Johnk or myself have been disrespectful to families wanting to sit together. Our concern is being moved from our carefully chosen seats to make way for them because they are seen as more important.

If my preferred seat is already taken I'll choose another, I wouldn't ask anybody to move for me. Yet families seem to believe they have the right to choose the best seats at the last minute so they can sit together and force others to move.

Well make a choice, either some of you get good seats and sit apart or sit together in the less desirable seats. It is pure selfishness to expect others to move for you when there are contiguous seats elsewhere on the plane.

 

[amaroo]

If I was ever approached regarding moving for a family even to a middle seat in Y I would do it because I would hope that even if I lacked CL people would do it for me. Comes down to a respect thing and how you look at life.

I've heard horror stories about people who have refused to move for carers of the ill, wheelies, etc.

Pretty disgraceful attitude!

 

[legroom]

I haven't seen where people like Johnk or myself have been disrespectful to families wanting to sit together. Our concern is being moved from our carefully chosen seats to make way for them because they are seen as more important.

If my preferred seat is already taken I'll choose another, I wouldn't ask anybody to move for me. Yet families seem to believe they have the right to choose the best seats at the last minute so they can sit together and force others to move.

Well make a choice, either some of you get good seats and sit apart or sit together in the less desirable seats. It is pure selfishness to expect others to move for you when there are contiguous seats elsewhere on the plane.

HVR

I cannot "like" more than once.

Sorry for being "disrespectful"

 

[JohnK]

Comes down to a respect thing and how you look at life.

I have worked hard to achieve what i have achieved and life still keeps knocking me down.

But that is my problem. And so is my love of flying. I try to do everything possible to achieve the best result for me. Selfish? I dont think so. It takes a lot of planning and hard work and you are implying I should do the right thing and make the lives of lazy people easier at the risk of inconveniencing mine.

Sorry but I am not a saint. I will graciously accept an op-up to a higher cabin in lieu of my carefully chosen economy bulkhead in order for a family to be seated together.

 

[RooFlyer]

Tell me why the needs (more likely "wants") of a family are more important than yours, mine or anyone else.

It could be argued that you being singular, and they being 2 or more, then simply head to head, the wishes of the more numerous might carry weight. And if we are talking about young kids - say, less than 10 or so, being seated separate from their parents, then the airline would probably place some weight on the desirability to have the kid properly supervised. That's 2 reasons. Not saying that it makes the situation of being asked to move for them any more palatable, but you can see why an airline would try to help by conveying the family's request.

As long as its a request to move & assist, and not a directive, I'm not understanding why you get so worked up about it and feel the need to sneer in your posts about families and children travelling. I assume you don't travel with a young family (memories ...); if you did, you may not change your outlook when asked, but I think you might be a little more understanding of why the question has been asked.

All that said, I am definitely in the group of polite refusal to move to accommodate a family who haven't organized themselves beforehand, unless I'm offered an equivalent or better positioned seat. I NEVER made such a request when I did travel with the kids, as I made the effort to make sure the seating was taken care of.

Its the involuntary "you have a new seat assignment, here's your new boarding pass" situation (and the thread topic) that I object to.

 

[JohnK]

As long as its a request to move & assist, and not a directive, I'm not understanding why you get so worked up about it and feel the need to sneer in your posts about families and children travelling. I assume you don't travel with a young family (memories ...); if you did, you may not change your outlook when asked, but I think you might be a little more understanding of why the question has been asked.

One of the reasons people have an issue and get worked up over it is some families know they will get assistance at the airport if they have not bothered to allocate seats together and they do not care who is inconvenienced. They have this expectation. More like a right. Which is totally wrong.

I do not like people reclining into me. I despise middle seats to the point where I will refuse to travel. I do not want to pay for business class or higher. I am extremely happy in my economy bulkhead.

Please tell me once again why I should be inconvenienced to help someone else?

 

[BadgerBoi]

It could be argued that you being singular, and they being 2 or more, then simply head to head, the wishes of the more numerous might carry weight. And if we are talking about young kids - say, less than 10 or so, being seated separate from their parents, then the airline would probably place some weight on the desirability to have the kid properly supervised. That's 2 reasons. Not saying that it makes the situation of being asked to move for them any more palatable, but you can see why an airline would try to help by conveying the family's request.

As long as its a request to move & assist, and not a directive, I'm not understanding why you get so worked up about it and feel the need to sneer in your posts about families and children travelling. I assume you don't travel with a young family (memories ...); if you did, you may not change your outlook when asked, but I think you might be a little more understanding of why the question has been asked.

All that said, I am definitely in the group of polite refusal to move to accommodate a family who haven't organized themselves beforehand, unless I'm offered an equivalent or better positioned seat. I NEVER made such a request when I did travel with the kids, as I made the effort to make sure the seating was taken care of.

Its the involuntary "you have a new seat assignment, here's your new boarding pass" situation (and the thread topic) that I object to.

It's heartening to see you coming over to my way of thinking. Well done on taking in some of what you've read in this thread. You still have a way to go but there's clearly some hope.

 

[harvyk]

One of the reasons people have an issue and get worked up over it is some families know they will get assistance at the airport if they have not bothered to allocate seats together and they do not care who is inconvenienced. They have this expectation. More like a right. Which is totally wrong.

You have to remember that not every family that travels has the luxury of status, and that selecting and paying for seats for a return trip for a family of 4 would cost an extra $200. (Trust me, as a family an extra $200 can go along way to other things such as attractions at the destination)
You also need to remember that automatic seat allocation sometimes makes mistakes, and thus they need to be fixed. Something which has happened to me is the person who did the check in couldn't care less and allocated seats all over the plane, we needed to go to another check in agent to fix the problem, and this is after I had pre-allocated seats.

Also you are forgetting, that most people here fly here pretty frequently and thus know the procedure, a family doing a once in a lifetime trip may not know the procedure and thus be a little miffed if they are placed all over the place.

Don't assume that the family asking you to move has any knowledge of pre-allocating seats or the correct way to fix problems. Also don't assume that it is not the FA themselves which is trying to solve things and knows it would be easier for the solo traveler to move back, than rearranging half the plane to move 3 people.

 

[docjames]

I don't want to weigh in supporting either side as I can see both points of view (and my travels can reflect both sides at times - sometimes I travel alone and sometimes with family in tow).

I would point out that it's difficult making assumptions around "they weren't organised".

It's quite possible they were very organised and their original flight(s) were delayed or cancelled and they were switched (by the airline). Hence poor / no seating. And the airline trying to make the trip easier for them.

There are so many scenarios I don't think it's possible to say who is right / wrong or have a "one size fits all solution". There's also a large difference between being involuntarily re-allocated seating for CBR-SYD or BNE-MEL vs MEL-DXB or SYD-SCL.

There are many instances where combined seating is preferable (families and other), and sometimes it's not possible to do in advance, and moving the least number of pax is preferable (logistically) from the airline's point of view, especially the closer it gets to departure time. The airline makes the call the "best" way to do this. Everyone's definition of "best" will vary.

Of those who have been re-allocated, how many have supplied feedback to the airline? What was the response?

 

[harvyk]

I would point out that it's difficult making assumptions around "they weren't organised".

It's quite possible they were very organised and their original flight(s) were delayed or cancelled and they were switched (by the airline). Hence poor / no seating. And the airline trying to make the trip easier for them.

Very true, hadn't even thought of that scenario.

Of course out of everyone traveling, a family or a couple is most likely to care about been apart from others. Where as 2 business colleagues for instance wouldn't really care and are thus unlikely to make a fuss.

 

[legroom]

....Comes down to a respect thing and how you look at life.....

You do have a point but it is rather misplaced in the context of the overall discussion here, I am afraid.

None of us here would refuse point blank all the time.

Rather, we question some specific circumstances where it is more of a disrespect to a pre-allocated / seated pax when he/she is requested to make way for a CL or some "family" which could well consist of two grown-up able-bodied adults.

We are not heartless in raising the issue of "why" in such circumstances. It is in all fairness that such contention be raised, not disrespect.

Disabled ? No sweat, most (if not all) of us would immediately accede to the request to be moved - even to an inferior seat.

"Relatively" unsettled child (say, 10-14 y.o.) ? No issue from me if seating at the front with more legroom would positively assist the parent(s).

One achieves a status with an airline with the expectation that there are further benefits which will almost certainly include preferential seating.

Further, many of us plans well ahead to pick the right aircraft to allow for the right seat(s) to be available at the time of booking.

OCD ? No doubt !

So, to dislodge such a planned outing you would need some very good reasons which - IMHO - do not include late / unplanned bookings.

There are many, many more posts here suggesting the eminently reasonable proposition that "family" itself does not guarantee seating together and further, it does not justify the request to be seated "further at the front".

There is nothing wrong with a family of 4 being seated in row 75 with the displaced 75D moving up to 43C.

What most of us would object to is the concept of "rewarding" unplanned behaviour (even from CLs) as it would be akin to "queue jumping".

By all means, if the airline wants my pre-allocated seat for no apparently reason other than to give it to a CL or to allow two able-bodied grown-ups to hold hands, just give me a better seat instead (I won't ever refuse 5B or 5J).

So, you see, we are not disrespectful at all to all and sundry.

What we are after is some respect for our own status and forward planning.

There should be no "reward" for laziness with regards to booking and seat allocation - CLs included.

 

[RooFlyer]

One of the reasons people have an issue and get worked up over it is some families know they will get assistance at the airport if they have not bothered to allocate seats together and they do not care who is inconvenienced. They have this expectation. More like a right. Which is totally wrong.

I do not like people reclining into me. I despise middle seats to the point where I will refuse to travel. I do not want to pay for business class or higher. I am extremely happy in my economy bulkhead.

Please tell me once again why I should be inconvenienced to help someone else?

Did I ever imply that you should? Read my posts and you might get an idea if my way of thinking, but to make it easy for you - I don't believe anyone should be forced to move from a pre selected seat, except for GENUINE operational reasons. But I'm also fine with being asked to move, as long as I can simply decline and that's that.

 

[sinophile888]

Last week, I experienced having my seats changed from bulkhead to non-bulkhead on both flights PER -> MEL -> PER.

My seat number did not change but there was an aircraft substitution on each flight. This substitution was done so last minute that the seat map on the QF website still showed my bulkhead allocation. When queried, the ground staff explained that the aircraft was changed because of heavier than usual bookings due to school holidays. I think that school holidays are programmed years in advance.

I am very keen on bulkhead seats and had booked about 6 months in advance. I hate having someone recline into me for all the obvious disadvantages. Luckily, I had booked an aisle bulkhead or I could have ended up in a middle seat.

Could not the seat number have been changed to allow me to still travel in a bulkhead seat? And the same situation would apply if someone had pre-allocated an exit row seat.

 

[RooFlyer]

It's heartening to see you coming over to my way of thinking. Well done on taking in some of what you've read in this thread. You still have a way to go but there's clearly some hope.

Oh, I haven't changed my way of thinking (see above posts) - I've just been having a bit of fun and general pi## take with some here. But I still wonder why the need for the repetitive sneering in your posts re families and even older couples travelling. That's one way of your thinking, as you put it, I'm not on board for.

 

[Kangol]

You have to remember that not every family that travels has the luxury of status, and that selecting and paying for seats for a return trip for a family of 4 would cost an extra $200. (Trust me, as a family an extra $200 can go along way to other things such as attractions at the destination)

It could be said that if a person/family cannot afford such an expense then they probably shouldn't be flying.. or shouldn't be having kids.

Just sayin'...

 

[BadgerBoi]

You have to remember that not every family that travels has the luxury of status, and that selecting and paying for seats for a return trip for a family of 4 would cost an extra $200. (Trust me, as a family an extra $200 can go along way to other things such as attractions at the destination)

I have to admit this raised a smile with me.

Hands up everybody participating on this thread who would give up an aisle seat in the front to move to a middle down near the toilets so that this family of four can enjoy an extra turn on the Wet&Wild Slide at WallyWorld.

(I'm really not being snarky to you, Harvyk!)

 

[Kangol]

It could be argued that you being singular, and they being 2 or more, then simply head to head, the wishes of the more numerous might carry weight.

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