Involuntary seat change

[cgoh]

I have difficulty reclining or staying reclined for any length of time as it gets very uncomfortable on my lower back.

So if a person in front reclines and I need to remain upright I cannot use the IFE regardless of how much I move the screen on the seat back. Also makes it hard for me to get in and out of seat with seat in front reclined.

That is the main reason I choose bulkhead. I do not need the legroom and the person behind me has a great flight.

Fair enough....

 

[JohnK]

I'm thinking a few of you should go back and reread the post from JohnK before you continue to jump down his throat.

He did not suggest that the family should be separated just that the family group could work in any seating ROW :!:

Let them have fun.

I have thick skin and no longer have a sore throat....

 

[RooFlyer]

Heck sit them next to me. I'll teach them some words and phrases that may make their grandma blush, tell them the truth about their favourite AFL player and show them how to watch movies on the IFE. You never know what you're going to get there.

Frankly, you breed them, you raise them. I'm sick of putting up with ignorant and selfish parents who think the world revolves around their spawn.

You do know when someone's doing a pi## take, don't you? ; . I don't really have twins. My kids are all well and truly flying for their own jobs. I'm mainly fearful one will get CL invite and end up bumping me :shock:

 

[SeatBackForward]

You do know when someone's doing a pi## take, don't you? ; . I don't really have twins. My kids are all well and truly flying for their own jobs. I'm mainly fearful one will get CL invite and end up bumping me :shock:

do not fear, im certain that respect for parents will be stronger than any respect offered simply due to CL status.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Pretty sure on most planes the Y cabin start just where the wings start or just before (a couple of rows before where the wings start). I think that's true on all planes except the 763s, the 4 class 744 and the 73Hs and QFLink planes.

Lighten up, I was referring to being in J/F in which case one is not 'forward' if on the wings, hence the wink

 

[OATEK]

Whilst I have not had a seat 'reallocated' as per the OP, I have been asked to move when onboard a few times. This has usually been by the CSM, and I have only moved a row/seat or two, so I have been happy to oblige. Sometimes I have offered if a pair of travellers have obviously been separated.

If I was 'told' of a new seat allocation, via a replacement BP, without being asked, then I would be quite grumpy.

On MEL-SYD on Sunday, two "old friends" bumped in to each other and found themselves three rows apart. So the first one says "perhaps we can persuade the person next to you to move"! They did and there were three outcomes:

1. FA couldn't find the person with the special meal tray for several minutes - she had moved,
2. The guy in the window seat next to the pair looked trapped and pulled out his personal earphones - not connected to anything, just as ear plugs,
3. There was mayhem after landing when it come to recover a carry on bag that was three rows back!

 

[harvyk]

Believe it or not, a family's needs do not automatically trump anyone else's needs, and for them to displace someone who has gone to the trouble of booking early and carefully selecting their seat only to be booted out so that some 14 year old lump of a surly teenage boy can sit next to his over-entitled mummy and daddy - that just doesn't cut it. And that's often what these families are, they're not always a three year old seated away from his mother. Or, of course, a middle aged couple who plug into the IFE for the duration of the flight and don't say a word, but still can't bear to be separated.

Gee tell us what you really think. Tell me if the needs of a family are so unimportant to you, why should your need to sit in a specific seat be any more important?

 

[harvyk]

The problem I have with CL for the public service is the inconsistency with procurement guidelines. Qantas is not a charitable institution - they don't give out CL to people to recognise they have worked hard - they give it to someone who is influential or controls big budgets/staff and can send business their way. What is the value of CL - maybe a couple of thousand $ per year? However when I deal with a contracts area, I can't even give a $10 box of chocolates at Christmas to say thank-you for their hard work. Even though they aren't the actual decision makers in whether I get the contract or not - just the grunts shuffling the paper. Just doesn't seem right or equitable to me.....

+1 to this, we have a customer whom we could not invite out to xmas lunch (despite the fact we had invited out every other customer of ours) because that could be seen as a conflict of interest. So I'd love to see a CL public servant explain to me why they are entitled to CL membership, when the average pube is not permitted to even accept a coffee from a supplier.

 

[TonyHancock]

Many years ago I used to fly CX to the UK. My preference was for the aisle bulkhead in J, I can't even remember what the aircraft was. As I entered the CX lounge in HKG prior to the my flight to MEL I was asked to move one row back because CX was trying to keep a family together. I agreed to the request only to find little "Johnny" and "Mary" sitting in the J bulkhead rows whilst mummy and daddy enjoyed their seats in F, popping back to see the children every once in a while.

I'm less inclined to give my seat up for a family these days. Such is life! *shrugs*

 

[legroom]

I am willing to place a bet that this thread of reallocation angst will make the FF news soon, now that most regulars are here already except TonyHancock.

And, now.....

Many years ago I used to fly CX to the UK. My preference was for the aisle bulkhead in J, I can't even remember what the aircraft was. As I entered the CX lounge in HKG prior to the my flight to MEL I was asked to move one row back because CX was trying to keep a family together. I agreed to the request only to find little "Johnny" and "Mary" sitting in the J bulkhead rows whilst mummy and daddy enjoyed their seats in F, popping back to see the children every once in a while.

I'm less inclined to give my seat up for a family these days. Such is life! *shrugs*

I wonder whether we have any "right of refusal" or that would instantly trigger the buzz words "operational reasons" and that "we do not guarantee any seat".

Do we have any right to ask for a reason and further, could we make any alternative suggestions (Family to the back, single pax from further back to the front etc...), or just have to "cop it sweet" just because the FA is requesting you to move ?

 

[TonyHancock]

And, now.....

Yes I read your post and was drawn in.

I can only recall being asked twice since then. Once at the QF check in desk at PVG, last year, where I declined politely, and once on board a DL flight in April where again I politely declined. (Although in the case of the latter had an aisle seat been available I would have helped out.)

 

[BadgerBoi]

Gee tell us what you really think. Tell me if the needs of a family are so unimportant to you, why should your need to sit in a specific seat be any more important?

Tell me why the needs (more likely "wants") of a family are more important than yours, mine or anyone else.

 

[harvyk]

Tell me why the needs (more likely "wants") of a family are more important than yours, mine or anyone else.

Well for starters the desire to keep the kids under control come pretty high on the my list of "wants". That is an easier prospect when the family is all sitting together in the one area. The other part of that want is that I know, even when the kids are behaving I am potentially inflicting my kids on others who may not be so happy to sit next to my offspring as I am. Plus of course there is the little thing that seating allocation can be less than perfect if you don't have status.

However I do appreciate the offer of Badgerboi's free in flight babysitting service, and look forwards to utilising this new service on my next flight with my family whilst the Mrs and I get to have hours of uninterrupted sleep.

 

[harvyk]

A lot of "what ifs" there. Here are a few of my own.

What if the person being displaced is disabled? Has limited use of one side of his/her body and must sit in an aisle seat on the right hand side. The family is only offering a middle seat down the back.

What if the person being displaced has a sever flying phobia, and must sit in a forward window seat? The family is offering an aisle seat half way down the plane?

What if there are any number of reasons, physical or psychological, that mean the person being displaced needs to sit in a particular seat and the family is offering anything but? You're not necessarily going to be able to observe why the person is unwilling or unable to accommodate this needy family, and it's not actually anybody's business.

These families don't only ever consist of parents with small children you know - they've been known to consist of two middle aged suits, or a husband and wife who ignore each other for the entire flight.

Sorry, you'll have to try harder to come up with a real reason why the desire of a family trumps anyone else. And don't use the entitled parent's threat of making someone babysit your child, because if you abandon your child next to me it remains abandoned. It can kick and scream all it wants, you'll be more distressed by your neglect that I will.

Well in those cases it is a judgement call to be made by the airline on a case by case basis, and since they never guarantee anyone any particular seat, nor do they even guarantee a class of service, this really does go into the like it or lump it part of flying. At least here in AU you can make a little bit of a grumble as your moved from 1A to 57E. In the US a grumble to the FA's about moving is as likely to get you kicked off the plane in handcuffs as it is a simple seat downgrade.

 

[BadgerBoi]

Well in those cases it is a judgement call to be made by the airline on a case by case basis, and since they never guarantee anyone any particular seat, nor do they even guarantee a class of service, this really does go into the like it or lump it part of flying. At least here in AU you can make a little bit of a grumble as your moved from 1A to 57E. In the US a grumble to the FA's about moving is as likely to get you kicked off the plane in handcuffs as it is a simple seat downgrade.

Good, I'll keep that in mind next time a family decides to play chess with the passengers in a cabin and remind them that it's a judgment call by the airline, and then I'll return to whatever it is that I'm doing.

Last time I was asked to move before I boarded (at check-in) I politely refused and that was the end of it. When I'm in my seat and somebody asks, the refusal will be just as polite. After all, as you point out, not even a family has any guarantee of a particular seat.

I don't really care what goes on in the US, what happens in the LOTFAP stays in the LOTFAP, despite your gross exaggeration.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I wonder whether we have any "right of refusal" or that would instantly trigger the buzz words "operational reasons" and that "we do not guarantee any seat".

Do we have any right to ask for a reason and further, could we make any alternative suggestions (Family to the back, single pax from further back to the front etc...), or just have to "cop it sweet" just because the FA is requesting you to move ?

I have been asked if I would move once, although it was on board and not prior to the flight. It was a BA flight LHR to JFK in F. Miss FM and I had two in the middle with MR FM on the side. It was a daytime flight and Miss FM and I like to talk to each other during the flight - she is a great companion now she is no longer a teenager. Anyway the FA asked if we would consider moving one of us to the side, so that a couple who were split on either side of the plane could also have one of the double and one of the side seats. I refused, as I had selected these seats many months ago and wanted them! After a little while ( after shamelessly eavesdropping on the conversation the couple were having), I realised they were on honeymoon, so Miss FM and I immediately offered to let them have our 2 seats and we would take theirs. By this time they had decided to use the buddy seat to have dinner together and then they were planning to get some sleep, so didn't feel they needed it. If the FA had explained the situation, I would have said yes , but didn't see the need to give up my preferred seating for just a random couple....I am thinking they were possibly an upgrade, as I would have thought if you had booked F for a honeymoon you would have chosen the seats early enough not to have had the problem - still feel a little guilty over my refusal.....

 

[legroom]

Good, I'll keep that in mind next time a family decides to play chess with the passengers in a cabin and remind them that it's a judgment call by the airline, and then I'll return to whatever it is that I'm doing.

Last time I was asked to move before I boarded (at check-in) I politely refused and that was the end of it. When I'm in my seat and somebody asks, the refusal will be just as polite. After all, as you point out, not even a family has any guarantee of a particular seat.

I don't really care what goes on in the US, what happens in the LOTFAP stays in the LOTFAP, despite your gross exaggeration.

That's a gem of a thought.

Come to think of it, FAs could ask for our permission to swap seats but what rights - in terms of T & C, footnotes, small print and the like - do airlines have to move you so that they can facilitate the comfort of some others ?

A mother and her small child: I would move in a heartbeat.

But, moving so that a couple could sit together holding hands.... well, that's another issue to ponder.

 

[harvyk]

That's a gem of a thought.

Come to think of it, FAs could ask for our permission to swap seats but what rights - in terms of T & C, footnotes, small print and the like - do airlines have to move you so that they can facilitate the comfort of some others ?

A mother and her small child: I would move in a heartbeat.

But, moving so that a couple could sit together holding hands.... well, that's another issue to ponder.

They can ask and you can always refuse, but the FA's do have two cards up their sleeve, 1. The operational reasons card and 2. The failure to follow instruction card. So if they really want to move you, they will.

That said I've moved in the past to allow a family to be seated together, as far as I'm concerned that simply karma points in the bank, and yes unlike certain other points programs out there, karma points do actually provide benefit from time to time.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Flights we are talking about include intl, therefore up to 13 hours.

With international flights more attention is given to pre-seating families, groups or even couples the day prior so even those pax who had not prepaid seating will be seated together. Makes it much easier on the day as the only ones left to be allocated seats will be solo travellers who haven't done OLCI.

This sometimes happens to me where I am booked on codeshares that prevent me from checking-in online. I select the seat weeks (sometimes months) in advance, only for someone else to take it since they're able to check-in and I'm not.

In fact, it's more often than not that I'm unable to check-in online. The story being that the codeshare prevents it - totally defeats the purpose of a codeshare I'd say.

If you've selected your seat weeks or months in advance even if you're not able to do OLCI, other people shouldn't be able to select your seat as it would show as occupied. If that was the case there wouldn't be any point in anybody pre-selecting seats.

I don't think the airlines would consider the primary purpose of a codeshare arrangement whether or not a pax can do OLCI - I suspect it probably more along the lines of making money.

On the matter of getting bumped by a CL.

When you enter the CL they take your boarding pass plus they already have your preferred seat and seat number in their system meaning that they will bump someone else out of their seat to give it to you.To all of you who are outraged that you were bumped I am afraid it's just how it works.

I don't know whether an actual seat number is in the CL profile like "pax always wants 4A" - it may have something like "please don't seat row 1 or please seat row 1". I don't think most CL members realise they can pre-allocate seats as they just assume having a request in their profile does all that for them.

An astute PA may well allocate a seat for them which gives them the impression the system automatically does it. I'm quite certain if a CL pax got 5C & a WP had pre-allocated 4C that it would remain that way ie the WP wouldn't be bumped.

Sometimes if a agent or client makes a booking they won't know the pax is a CL member & therefore don't put the ffn in the booking so by the time they checkin & hand the CL card over there may only be middle seats/aft seats available so staff would obviously try and get a better seat for them.

Why is it such an issue to be moved for a family? I have been moved for a family and I'm happy for that. At the end of a day a seat is a seat. Most people do not have the same obsessive compulsion to check Expertflyer or the Qantas website every day for seat assignments. Why is it wrong for a parent to want to be able to supervise their child on a flight?

The funny thing is sometimes if a CL member wants an earlier flight they may be told no problem but there's only middle seats left & they're quite okay about that & may say "I don't care a seat's a seat" or "I don't care as I get home an hour earlier" when it's an NB that will complain when they get a middle seat saying "why don't I have an aisle/window seat because I have a request in my profile".

 

[BadgerBoi]

That's a gem of a thought.

Come to think of it, FAs could ask for our permission to swap seats but what rights - in terms of T & C, footnotes, small print and the like - do airlines have to move you so that they can facilitate the comfort of some others ?

A mother and her small child: I would move in a heartbeat.

But, moving so that a couple could sit together holding hands.... well, that's another issue to ponder.

There is already a serious problem with an airline that would allow that, and the airline needs to sort that out with the mother. If the airline requests that I move to accommodate them and it was to a similar or better seat then I would agree.

It's not unknown for an airline to lie, for example FT is full of posts about people being moved to accommodate an alleged mother and child, yet when they board they see a pair of adults sitting in their seats.