Is Citi Plus still the best option for overseas cash?

bernardblack

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Is Citi Plus still the best option for overseas cash? Obviously I haven't done a lot of international travel since 2019.

If I have to open some other account it might be time to get started, since we depart in five weeks.

(I'm set for FX-fee-free purchases, with a US Amex Gold backed with a Coles Rewards Mastercard and a Bundll account which charges to my Dragon Visa.)
 
Fair enough, not everyone can get such a deal.
For the benefit of AFF’rs, we just both withdrew €40 from the same ATM in Berlin (no ATM fee - pretty standard) - 1x ING and 1x NAB. Identical AUD amount and about 10 cents different to the XE spot rate (for ease of comparison).
 
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We are just back from UK/Ireland where we used the Westpac Worldwide Wallet. I was excellent, and we were very happy to have 2 cards to share between us as Mrsoatek's QANTAS Money card refused to cooperate following a debacle over the replacement card (see below***). Was able to draw out money in obscure locations fee-free as long as we used the Westpac nominated ATMs (not that we used ATMs much).

For Credit cards we carried Bankwest and 28degree that don't have exchange fees and they worked seemlessly as always.

*** Mrsoatek clung to the QANTAS Money card when I switched, and just a week before departing she received a letter from QF that she was being demoted for lack of flying, along with a new Red card. She tried to activate the new Red card, but kept getting errors. Rang QF Money and was told she had not been demoted and the Red cars was sent in error. A new Silver card would be with us in days, just before we leave for LHR. Well of course the new card did not arrive, and when Mrsoatek tried to use the old Silver card it said invalid (even though the valid to date was 05/22).

Needless to say the QF card has gone by the wayside, and Mrsoatek was able to use my second card, and transferred the funds back to me from QF Money when we got home.
 
I do 5x 20c transactions at coles for the ING card. Couldn't be any simpler and quicker at the self serve check outs using tap and go. No one has ever questioned it.
 
We are just back from UK/Ireland where we used the Westpac Worldwide Wallet. I was excellent, and we were very happy to have 2 cards to share between us as Mrsoatek's QANTAS Money card refused to cooperate following a debacle over the replacement card (see below***). Was able to draw out money in obscure locations fee-free as long as we used the Westpac nominated ATMs (not that we used ATMs much).

For Credit cards we carried Bankwest and 28degree that don't have exchange fees and they worked seemlessly as always.

I just load my Bankwest credit card into credit by internet banking when necessary and then withdraw cash at overseas ATMs. No exchange fees, no withdrawal fee, and the current global FOREX rate.
 
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For the tech inclined, We’ve been playing with resolut which allows you to exchange to your preferred currency at the rate you like.

There is a $9k limit for the free account, but if you have time before your trip, and you like to be hands on with finances, then this could be fun for you.

This is my referral link if you want to check it out
One app, all things money
 
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Withdrew 5 times from an atm in Thailand recently, each time I withdrew the ATM operator charged me 220 baht (~$9), these were all rebated by ING saving me $45. 5 tranactions and depositing $1000 is a fairly small price to pay. If I had used the citibank debit, there are 3 locations in Thailand (Bangkok) where I could've gotten a fee free atm withdrawal (all Citibank atms) which wouldn't have helped since I was in coughet...
Since when have you had to use a Citibank ATM? I have always used my Citi Debit Card to withdraw fee-free at various ATMs OS.
 
I’ve had the Citibank card for about 10 years and always used it for fee free ATM withdrawals, but recently came to Vietnam and couldn’t withdraw money from either Citibank ATM’s or other Vietnamese bank ATM’s. Extremely frustrating. Now I don’t think the account is deactivated as somebody mentioned previously because I can use the card to pay for restaurants etc, it just won’t allow me to withdraw cold, hard cash. The Citibank app has nowhere to send a message for help, I’ve changed the pin in case that activated something.
 
I'm surprised to see no mention of uBank?

Is there some gotcha with them that I'm not aware of?
I have ubank and can’t quite remember what exactly, but feel like a few years back I read that it wasn’t for atm withdrawals. Although I can’t back that up, just going by gut.
 
I have ubank and can’t quite remember what exactly, but feel like a few years back I read that it wasn’t for atm withdrawals. Although I can’t back that up, just going by gut.
Perhaps the devil is in the detail, but on their front page........
No overseas fees
UBank Visa Debit card
We don’t charge ATM withdrawal and foreign exchange fees when you access your USpend transaction account overseas, or for online purchases with overseas merchants.
 
Perhaps the devil is in the detail, but on their front page........
No overseas fees
UBank Visa Debit card
We don’t charge ATM withdrawal and foreign exchange fees when you access your USpend transaction account overseas, or for online purchases with overseas merchants.
I have UBank also. Mainly for the savings account but if I get a chance I may try a comparison on OS transactions.
 
I use my ING debit card only for overseas ATM withdrawals, and only where there will be a local bank fee charged.

Macquarie debit card for everything else as while Macquarie don't charge overseas transaction or withdrawal fees, they don't refund overseas operator fees.

I opened the ING account specifically for use at overseas ATMs. My last trip pre-fortress Australia was to Argentina, where as one of the other contributors mentioned ATM fees are extortionate and the amount you can withdraw is limited, if you can withdraw anything at all (it's largely a cash economy and ATMs regularly run out of money).

Some things to be aware of:

1. If you don't use your card for six months, ING will lock it. They won't however notify you of this, and there will be nothing in online banking to indicate it. You will have to call them to reactivate it.

2. When you do call them, they don't answer the phone. 22, 26 and 34 minutes was how long it took before I spoke to a human on my first three calls.

That said, Macquarie don't answer the phone either. None of the online banks do. I miss Westpac.

3. ING only refund fees on the first five ATM withdrawals. After that they slug you like it's 1997. So if you can, choose your withdrawals wisely e.g. in the UK and France there are no non-customer ATM fees, so no need to use the ING card there.

4. If you try to make an online transaction when overseas - like buying something from ebay or Amazon or leboncoin - you'll need a security code. The only way to get this is by SMS to an Australian mobile number. So if say you're using a local overseas SIM, like all good AFFers would if anywhere for more than a few days, then you are SOL. This regardless of whether you've notified ING that you are travelling overseas. Or given them an overseas contact number. Of course, nowhere do they tell you this, nor do the majority of their CSRs know it. As you can probably infer, this took a good few very frustrating hours of my time on last trip to learn.

There is no other option than SMS to an Australian mobile. No email option, no Authenticator app code.

Macquarie uses an Authenticator app. Doesn't matter what SIM card you have, it's tied to the device. You don't even need to have mobile service, as long as you have the device and are online.

5. ING's app is basic. It was good when they were the first online bank, but that's almost twenty years ago.


As far as exchange rate goes they're both as good as you'll get (outside of a specialist forex service like OFX, which requires an overseas bank account).

ING uses the standard Visa rate, Macquarie the standard Mastercard rate, which are both almost the same. Neither take a cut on top. Some days Visa may be slightly better, other days Mastercard, but the difference is negligible.

With either, always choose to be charged in the local currency, never use the offered local conversion rate at the ATM or EFTPOS machine. Same for Paypal or Amazon, they'll default to making you use their conversion rate, don't, use the card's. With Paypal this is very easy to miss.
 
I have UBank also. Mainly for the savings account but if I get a chance I may try a comparison on OS transactions.
I used my UBank Visa Debit card to buy a Berlin metro ticket today. €3 debited as $4.40 v $4.39 on SYD+1’s 28° MC. So basically the same. Not sure about ATMs for now.
 
I use my ING debit card only for overseas ATM withdrawals, and only where there will be a local bank fee charged.

Macquarie debit card for everything else as while Macquarie don't charge overseas transaction or withdrawal fees, they don't refund overseas operator fees.

I opened the ING account specifically for use at overseas ATMs. My last trip pre-fortress Australia was to Argentina, where as one of the other contributors mentioned ATM fees are extortionate and the amount you can withdraw is limited, if you can withdraw anything at all (it's largely a cash economy and ATMs regularly run out of money).

Some things to be aware of:

1. If you don't use your card for six months, ING will lock it. They won't however notify you of this, and there will be nothing in online banking to indicate it. You will have to call them to reactivate it.

2. When you do call them, they don't answer the phone. 22, 26 and 34 minutes was how long it took before I spoke to a human on my first three calls.

That said, Macquarie don't answer the phone either. None of the online banks do. I miss Westpac.

3. ING only refund fees on the first five ATM withdrawals. After that they slug you like it's 1997. So if you can, choose your withdrawals wisely e.g. in the UK and France there are no non-customer ATM fees, so no need to use the ING card there.

4. If you try to make an online transaction when overseas - like buying something from ebay or Amazon or leboncoin - you'll need a security code. The only way to get this is by SMS to an Australian mobile number. So if say you're using a local overseas SIM, like all good AFFers would if anywhere for more than a few days, then you are SOL. This regardless of whether you've notified ING that you are travelling overseas. Or given them an overseas contact number. Of course, nowhere do they tell you this, nor do the majority of their CSRs know it. As you can probably infer, this took a good few very frustrating hours of my time on last trip to learn.

There is no other option than SMS to an Australian mobile. No email option, no Authenticator app code.

Macquarie uses an Authenticator app. Doesn't matter what SIM card you have, it's tied to the device. You don't even need to have mobile service, as long as you have the device and are online.

5. ING's app is basic. It was good when they were the first online bank, but that's almost twenty years ago.


As far as exchange rate goes they're both as good as you'll get (outside of a specialist forex service like OFX, which requires an overseas bank account).

ING uses the standard Visa rate, Macquarie the standard Mastercard rate, which are both almost the same. Neither take a cut on top. Some days Visa may be slightly better, other days Mastercard, but the difference is negligible.

With either, always choose to be charged in the local currency, never use the offered local conversion rate at the ATM or EFTPOS machine. Same for Paypal or Amazon, they'll default to making you use their conversion rate, don't, use the card's. With Paypal this is very easy to miss.
Excellent post! Thanks.
 
When i travel overseas I take a fistfull of credit and debit cards. Keep some in hotel, some in sock, some in jocks and so on. never can be too sure. The one in my wallet will rarely have over $100 in it, just in case i get mugged in sordid bars. In Indonesia i get fairly regularly plagued by 'contact your bank' errors at ATMs, so just keep trying until one works, usually get by, and no patterns, imo its just luck.

If there are ATM fees where i am going, i fire up ING, otherwise its old trusty Citi plus as my primary, then Macquarie, and whatever else is laying around, i pretty much have all of them, and none are better than any other (aside from ATM fees cover by ING). Due to the ease of internet banking transfers dont have to preload accounts, can do that on the fly.

The Citi Plus wiki at Whirlpool forums is an excellent guide to ATMS in each country, its a valuable resource but possibly becoming outdated since there are many more options now.

But honestly, my last few trips have resulted in stuff all ATM withdrawals - after covid its even more of a non-issue.
 
Last 2 trips to the UK 2018 and 2019 i didnt see any fees on any ATMs and tried about 5 different brands.

Heads up to anyone who hasnt used their Citi Plus account for a while, they deactivate your account if there has been no spend for 6 months. Had to call today to get my "inactive" account un blocked so could test that new ATM card is working ahead of travel later this week. Note: there was nothing online that showed my account was locked, I was able to transfer funds from savings into Plus account etc, I didnt know until ATM declined my card and then reached out via chat.

Anyway all sorted now.
So. I wasn’t able to withdraw cash from the two new and activated cards today. One was declined on basis of incorrect pin. It wasn’t. The other was declined because it seems to think I selected the wrong account to withdraw from. There was only Cheque Savings and Credit option. I used Savings. When trying credit with the other card that was when I got the incorrect pin notice. Guess I have to call….
 

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