Is it time for Virgin to join an alliance?

[codash1099]

Couldn't agree more. If they had joined *A years ago, they would still have all my flying.

Ditto. I've stated many times that the lack of a proper alliance stops me from putting all of my flying with VA. Star may be far from ideal, but it's better than the rag tag arrangement VA currently have. I fear JB is locking himself into a position that does the airline no good.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Yep Star Gold is okay but it's just that - Gold. It's not F lounges and champagne and chauffeurs - it's the KF Gold Lounge, 10% points earnings on some fares and no benefits on MI.

And something that troubled me when I had Star Gold: safety on OZ and TK.

Couldn't agree more. If they had joined *A years ago, they would still have all my flying.

let's go one step further and look at how velocity would benefit. Life miles and UA are selling tens and million$ in points to au/nz through consumer bonus sales. The velocity currency would become more valuable if in *alliance and velocity could justify the gold price instead of discounting to the banks.

If we look at AA who sold $3B in miles last year, their currency holds value because they ride off the brands of Oneworld partners. Velocity is doing this with Krisflyer currently but they could effectively do this for all star carriers which would be a massive boost to the bottom line.

How the **** do virgin analysts still have a job?

i'm only a data scientist but even i can see the broader scope of pros and cons beyond what filters through the media and online forums.

 

[Mattg]

I struggle to take Velocity seriously in its current form and think VA would benefit greatly by joining an alliance. My main bug bear is the lack of consistency in terms of status recognition on partner airlines. Sometimes it works well, but often it doesn't. I've been told numerous times by employees of partner airlines that they don't even know what Virgin Australia or Velocity is.

And then there's the randomness of the lounge access - why do HA flyers get lounge access when flying to HNL from SYD but not BNE? And why can't you get lounge access when flying SA to JNB from PER? Not to mention the current situation of lounge access in SYD/MEL/BNE depending on the airline and the destination. It's way too confusing.

In terms of redeeming points, I think Velocity provides a reasonable range of airlines to choose from. But I much prefer to travel on oneworld airlines using my QF status overseas as you know you'll receive your benefits as advertised (not to mention that QF's network of partners is much more extensive).

 

[Virgin Bart]

I struggle to take Velocity seriously in its current form .... .

What? Why? What's wrong with offering a domestic lounge in a different terminal for international flights at one of your hubs?!.....

 

[pauly7]

]

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How the **** do virgin analysts still have a job?

They don't.... Actually not joking, in one of the rounds of redundancies at VA this year some data monkeys were let go....

Also just keep in mind these three points more broadly while we discuss why doesn't VA or Velocity do this / that etc

- VA does not control its own destiny anymore. They have several very big shareholders who are dictating the playbook and they all have seperate agendas. That's one of the reasons Air NZ bailed (QF had a well publicised helping hand in this too I know..). Point being unlike their competitors they can't just make strategic decisions like this by themselves anymore.

- VA doesn't have the cash anymore. They aren't about spending anymore they are about cost cutting. They are aggressively downsizing their fleet (bye bye e-jets, a bunch of ATR's) and repainting their 737s into ultra LCC Tiger planes and handing over routes to them.

- VA doesn't have full control over Velocity anymore. Remember they sold a chunk off to get some cash. They aren't able to make big changes in this area easily either, without consulting their 'business partner'

All this adds up to that even if they wanted to make a decision to join Star or Skyteam, it feels like they probably just don't have the capacity or the power to anymore really

 

[HeavyElectricity]

12/12/2016 - Taken from the interview at: https://skift.com/2016/12/12/star-a...-airlines-dont-strive-for-consistent-service/

Other than that [Russia], we’ve got the globe pretty well covered, [though] domestic connectivity across the Australian market would be helpful to us. We had Ansett Australia as a member of Star early on. Unfortunately they ceased operations in 2001. There are only two major airlines in the Australian market. [Neither is] an obvious choice for us there.

 

[JohnPhelan]

And then there's the randomness of the lounge access - why do HA flyers get lounge access when flying to HNL from SYD but not BNE? And why can't you get lounge access when flying SA to JNB from PER? Not to mention the current situation of lounge access in SYD/MEL/BNE depending on the airline and the destination. It's way too confusing.

And now there's an announcement that, as from 19 December, VA pax will cease using the Star Alliance Lounge at LAX, and move to the EY lounge. So VA is moving even further away from any Star Alliance relationship......

(BTW, HA pax ex BNE - at least those travelling in J - get lounge access to the QF lounge. But I believe VA status pax travelling in Y get ........ zilch. And you can codeshare on the HA flight ex-SYD, but not ex-BNE ??)

 

[TomVexille]

And now there's an announcement that, as from 19 December, VA pax will cease using the Star Alliance Lounge at LAX, and move to the EY lounge. So VA is moving even further away from any Star Alliance relationship......

(BTW, HA pax ex BNE - at least those travelling in J - get lounge access to the QF lounge. But I believe VA status pax travelling in Y get ........ zilch.)

Temporary measures until they move to T2/3 probably

 

[CPMaverick]

If VA could swap United in place of DL, a Star Alliance would make a lot of sense. Keep Etihad as just a partner, and add a lot more.

I don't really mind VA's current situation though. Really redemptions are better now than they would be if they moved to *A because you can always access any *A through KF but you get Delta options (and a few others) too.

If you look at redemptions, VA offers a shot at UA, DL, and VA flights to the USA... nobody else can compete with that.

For sure I prefer the current VA alliance versus Skyteam. Skyteam has terrible coverage in Australia-Pacific and Australia-Europe.

 

[serfty]

And now there's an announcement that, as from 19 December, VA pax will cease using the Star Alliance Lounge at LAX, and move to the EY lounge. So VA is moving even further away from any Star Alliance relationship... ...

Just to be clear, VA J & WP get access to the EY First/Business lounge at TBIT, Velocity SG continue to use the *A lounge.

 

[Falcs]

Just to be clear, VA J & WP get access to the EY First/Business lounge at TBIT, Velocity SG continue to use the *A lounge.

Clear as mud, but consistent with the way they run their lounge access around the rest of the world.

 

[docjames]

]
That's one of the reasons Air NZ bailed (QF had a well publicised helping hand in this too I know..).

Genuine question: How did QF help NZ bail out of VA?

I don't recall that (QF) aspect being "well publicised"??

 

[cmon0005]

Is it so remote a possibility? The Star Alliance CEO said last year that they would be keen if VA wanted to join.

Sounds like their ceo now doesn't think they're a good fit.. http://www.ausbt.com.au/star-alliance-tamps-down-virgin-australia-speculation

 

[ceetee]

Marty hit it on the head, VA is not an international airlines, just an airlines that happens to fly some international routes. I travel often throughout Asia and suffer with Singapore Air. They don't even acknowledge Platinum members nor do they give any seat preference. Don't get me started on the lack of lounge access privileges. I am in Haneda today returning with VA code share SG and no lounge, no upgrade, seated in the back. How do I transfer to qantas??!!

 

[Marty_]

After some thought, I think I will build my *A status concurrently with VA. That means a few trips on Krisflyer membership with no status, but the results will probably be worth it.

By making so many bilateral arrangements with *A members, this may become a risk to VA.

Sounds like their ceo now doesn't think they're a good fit.. Star Alliance tamps down Virgin Australia speculation - Australian Business Traveller

I don't think that is quite his underlying thinking. I suspect he just knows they're not interested. Also have to consider their partnership with Delta making the whole thing a bit complex.

 

[codash1099]

Marty hit it on the head, VA is not an international airlines, just an airlines that happens to fly some international routes. I travel often throughout Asia and suffer with Singapore Air. They don't even acknowledge Platinum members nor do they give any seat preference. Don't get me started on the lack of lounge access privileges. I am in Haneda today returning with VA code share SG and no lounge, no upgrade, seated in the back. How do I transfer to qantas??!!

Not much different to the position Ansett was in before they disappeared. And they were a member of *A.

 

[pauly7]

Genuine question: How did QF help NZ bail out of VA?

I don't recall that (QF) aspect being "well publicised"??

QF turned up the heat significantly on NZ by launching Jetstar turboprops, and working with AA to coordinate a launch into the AKL / US route. This has forced NZ to retreat (again ironically) back to focussing on their core business to fight them off.

 

[docjames]

QF turned up the heat significantly on NZ by launching Jetstar turboprops, and working with AA to coordinate a launch into the AKL / US route. This has forced NZ to retreat (again ironically) back to focussing on their core business to fight them off.

Fair enough. I'd agree that if VA was profitable NZ would have just sat on their holding.

NZ haven't really made the trans-tasman VA tie up work particularly well on their side of the relationship either......

 

[grubbidok]

Borghetti keeps saying "he doesn't see the merit" in joining any of the alliances. I wish he'd share whatever the hell is influencing his decision in more detail. Surely at this stage VA owes it to its FFs to justify *in detail* why it is not choosing an alliance, when it is clear it is probably in the top 2 wishlist of every VA FF out there.

 

[grubbidok]

Borghetti keeps saying "he doesn't see the merit" in joining any of the alliances. I wish he'd share whatever the hell is influencing his decision in more detail. Surely at this stage VA owes it to its FFs to justify *in detail* why it is not choosing an alliance, when it is clear it is probably in the top 2 wishlist of every VA FF out there.

Though TBH I wouldn't actually mind a rag-tag "custom" alliance if VA actually put a decent effort into filling some of the gaping holes that exist in their partnerships.