Is it time for Virgin to join an alliance?

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Borghetti keeps saying "he doesn't see the merit" in joining any of the alliances. I wish he'd share whatever the hell is influencing his decision in more detail. Surely at this stage VA owes it to its FFs to justify *in detail* why it is not choosing an alliance, when it is clear it is probably in the top 2 wishlist of every VA FF out there.

Probably the price is too expensive. Also they don't get to make much decisions, most decisions are made by large airlines (e.g. LH, UA, DL, AF etc).

AS is in similar boat and they are doing OK.
 
Probably the price is too expensive. Also they don't get to make much decisions, most decisions are made by large airlines (e.g. LH, UA, DL, AF etc).

AS is in similar boat and they are doing OK.

Yeah, that's why I made my second point. The issue isn't so much that they refuse to join an alliance, but that their current partnership strategy is pretty cough and full of holes. The problem is they keep spruiking how great their current partnership strategy is, without fixing the holes and problems that need to be fixed.
 
A few new developments that may change VA's prospect of any alliance future:

1. New VA management in John Thomas who was driving the AC codeshare agreement.
2. AC CEO was Chairman of Star Alliance.
3. Jefferey Goh will replace Mark Schwab as Star Alliance CEO from January.
4. LH has just signed a codeshare agreement with VA shareholder EY.
5. Star Alliance Connecting Partner Model will come online mid next year, providing partnership without needing to join as a full member.

Completely new management from both sides as well as new Star CPM platform and LH/EY getting friendly, all significant.
 
A few new developments that may change VA's prospect of any alliance future:

1. New VA management in John Thomas who was driving the AC codeshare agreement.
2. AC CEO was Chairman of Star Alliance.
3. Jefferey Goh will replace Mark Schwab as Star Alliance CEO from January.
4. LH has just signed a codeshare agreement with VA shareholder EY.
5. Star Alliance Connecting Partner Model will come online mid next year, providing partnership without needing to join as a full member.

Completely new management from both sides as well as new Star CPM platform and LH/EY getting friendly, all significant.

Add to this point 1.a - John Thomas has been brought in to butcher costs, slash jobs (publicly stated they are shedding 10% of HQ jobs before they even get to the operational team) and certainly not to join alliances. His focus is saving not spending, certainly for the short term! Rumours are that JB when JB exits, JT takes the reins... but who knows
 
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Yeah, that's why I made my second point. The issue isn't so much that they refuse to join an alliance, but that their current partnership strategy is pretty cough and full of holes. The problem is they keep spruiking how great their current partnership strategy is, without fixing the holes and problems that need to be fixed.

The current partner strategy is great, for them! Low overheads, arms-length agreements which can be dissolved at relatively short notice, and legalised price collusion on some routes.
Joining an alliance would add additional costs like new staff, training, re-branding, systems integration, flight re-scheduling, compliance and ongoing maintenance. The revenue benefit from new pax might not outweigh the additional associated costs (points, lounge access, baggage revenue/cost opportunity).

The main advantages of an alliance are:
- NDC offer opportunity (more flight options, increased ancillary revenue)
- The value of Velocity points increases++
- Increased load through award flight distribution
- Other member airline traffic /FQTV revenue

Now, given that Virgin make the bulk of revenue from domestic flights and Velocity FF, the non-analytical approach is to project how many more seats would be sold by being in an alliance. Given loads are similar to QF; the benefit is likely negligible.
From a Velocity perspective, given the Australian-centric userbase, it doesn't make sense to worry about an alliance unless Velocity were to aggressively set-up shop in a new market.

Unfortunately, we'll never know the real reasons why JB won't join up, but my take is Virgin isn't confident in their own ability to fully leverage the benefits of being in an alliance which would require additional investments.

However, in saying all this - the current Virgin strategy isn't exactly panning out too well...
 
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He's just saying what his EY masters tell him to say.

And at the moment EY have several basket case airlines they own and are trying to fix at the same time! Wonder how much airtime VA is getting....
 
Willie Walsh recently said, " If you go back to my time at Aer Lingus, I didn’t actually take them out of Oneworld but I prepared the groundwork for it...What you’ve got to recognise is there’s a cost of being a member and for a small airline that cost can be greater than the revenue and commercial benefit you gain from being in an alliance. https://buyingbusinesstravel.com/ne...-iag-bosses-question-future-airline-alliances
 
I personally wrote about this to John B about nearly 3 years ago now, even at that time he was more keen on the bespoke system than an alliance.
 
I personally wrote about this to John B about nearly 3 years ago now, even at that time he was more keen on the bespoke system than an alliance.

There's nothing inherently wrong with having a bespoke system, there's just a lot of holes in *VA's* bespoke system - holes that would be filled by joining an alliance.

If all of VA's partners had the same level of partnership and recognition as it does with DL and they patched up some of their gaping geographic holes, I'd have no issue. But their bespoke system is riddled with holes that frankly alliance members don't have (or at least not to the same level - lounge access in third-party ports being an obvious biggie).

If they're going to continue to blow their trumpet tell is how great it is to have a bespoke system, they could at least pull their fingers out and create one that's a reasonable and comparable alternative to the alliance they keep telling us "wouldn't be as good".
 
I can't see VA joining an alliance any time soon, mainly because I believe that'll kill the relationship with DL if they were to go to Star.
Skyteam I can't see being on the cards as they have a large proportion of Chinese carriers but not the HNA Group ones.

I think it's going to be a steady as she goes approach.
near term, codeshares with HNA Group airlines.
medium term, potential codeshare with LH - given that EY and LH are moving to co-operation, if AB falls over, then another European carrier to plug the gap would seem necessary, and I would classify LH as a good get. Even a codeshare with EW to replace a fallen AB would be better than nothing.

(not wishing ill will to AB, I've had nothing but positive experiences with them).
 
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