Is Qantas Actually Listening?

[Aussie_flyer]

It is clearly obvious they were a mistake. Qantas noticed a long time ago but the voices on AFF were crying for them to remain. So people had a reprieve but the warning was there. And then AFF exploited them even more.

Am I dreaming the sequence of events?

They are now gone and there is a new Any Seat award in their place.

I would really like upgrade credits, Anytime access to lounges and complimentary international exit rows pre-allocation to return. It is not going to happen though.

JohnK. The routing rules for tsv-drw allow for travel via bne. Its as simple as that. Its NOT a mistake. QANTAS set the routing rules as they see fit in consideration of their network.

 

[Mr_Orange]

Qantas in its wisdom designed a feature where it was possible to earn SCs and QFF points for less than the cost of a classic award? Why would they be that stupid? It makes no sense. They then reviewed this flaw in the system and have been removed. They were not obliged to reprice them in a way where people still felt they were receiving great value.

Decision made. No going back now. And Qantas has decided that Points + pay is the way forward.

How did MASAs cost less than a Classic Award? On some routings the points required were less but the $$$ copay was always significantly higher.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Qantas in its wisdom designed a feature where it was possible to earn SCs and QFF points for less than the cost of a classic award? Why would they be that stupid? It makes no sense. They then reviewed this flaw in the system and have been removed. They were not obliged to reprice them in a way where people still felt they were receiving great value.

Decision made. No going back now. And Qantas has decided that Points + pay is the way forward.

people keep making reference to the odd mASA that cost less than a classic award. The ones I looked at were all hundreds of dollars more than the co-pay on a classic.

And by hundreds of dollars I mean well and truly in excess of buying a Qantas club membership (which is kind of a little how I equate gold lounge access).

 

[moa999]

I agree that the MASAs were generally at a $ premium to the Classic and many found this good value.

Qantas have decided this didn't represent good value for them and have removed this option.

As mentioned above there ate still some good value Points+Pay fares around but not as many.

Am sure Qantas would prefer us to buy full business_first fares to earn SCs. Whether this happens is another matter

 

[JohnK]

How did MASAs cost less than a Classic Award? On some routings the points required were less but the $$$ copay was always significantly higher.

AKL-MEL/SYD-LAX is a classic example. The points earned by a Platinum were obscene. Brought the cost down to a fraction of the cost of a classic award. The co-payment was a few hundred more than a classic.

P.S I do not believe adding a $40 bundle to earn SCs and QFF points ala JQ is the answer either. Allowing someone to earn 40SCs and 6400 QFF points an already cheap airfare is a joke.

 

[medhead]

Qantas in its wisdom designed a feature where it was possible to earn SCs and QFF points for less than the cost of a classic award? Why would they be that stupid? It makes no sense. They then reviewed this flaw in the system and have been removed. They were not obliged to reprice them in a way where people still felt they were receiving great value.

Decision made. No going back now. And Qantas has decided that Points + pay is the way forward.

More of the same false conclusions. Not sure why anyone would bother if they can't handle discussing ideas.

 

[Deleted member]

AKL-MEL/SYD-LAX is a classic example. The points earned by a Platinum were obscene. Brought the cost down to a fraction of the cost of a classic award. The co-payment was a few hundred more than a classic.

P.S I do not believe adding a $40 bundle to earn SCs and QFF points ala JQ is the answer either. Allowing someone to earn 40SCs and 6400 QFF points an already cheap airfare is a joke.

But fun while it lasts.

 

[medhead]

AKL-MEL/SYD-LAX is a classic example. The points earned by a Platinum were obscene. Brought the cost down to a fraction of the cost of a classic award. The co-payment was a few hundred more than a classic.

P.S I do not believe adding a $40 bundle to earn SCs and QFF points ala JQ is the answer either. Allowing someone to earn 40SCs and 6400 QFF points an already cheap airfare is a joke.

Oh and more falsehoods. Who has out on a $40 price tag? No one. I've constantly said reprice to whatever price they are happy to get. Obviously there is a failure someone that rubbish is just made up, without bothering to acknowledge what was really suggested.

Qantas are very happy to sell a business seat for the classic award level. Adl-SYD 24000+$40/$80. The 170000 point (or whatever) price level for point +pay is clearly excessive and possible can result in a copay more than a full business fare. MASA at 24000 + $100-$200 is apparently not good enough to cover 1800 point and 60 SC. There must be a price between $100 and $1000 that gives fair value for the 1800 points and 60 SC.

As for this absolute trash about routes that earn more points than they cost. That can also be dealt with by re-pricing or killing eligible routes, without killing the whole product.

Answer the simple question. Why doesn't Qantas want to price a popular product to make money. Well that's a request in vain. Let me guess you'll say - "it's gone get over it".

 

[medhead]

To play devil's advocate, that is exactly what QANTAS think they have done... Some people may say they are out of touch?

Which gets to my point. Why have a product no one will buy? How does that make money? Why set a price they are happy with, that will also sell?

 

[Jacques Vert]

people keep making reference to the odd mASA that cost less than a classic award. The ones I looked at were all hundreds of dollars more than the co-pay on a classic.

Normally yes; but occasionally the mASA did have a lower $ cost. Picked up a couple on short haul domestic last year.

 

[eastwest101]

...
Qantas are very happy to sell a business seat for the classic award level. Adl-SYD 24000+$40/$80. The 170000 point (or whatever) price level for point +pay is clearly excessive and possible can result in a copay more than a full business fare. MASA at 24000 + $100-$200 is apparently not good enough to cover 1800 point and 60 SC. There must be a price between $100 and $1000 that gives fair value for the 1800 points and 60 SC....

I think that is the crucial question there medhead - I also wonder why, when the mASAs went into "review" when they were "accidently" left out of the new online web booking system (and mASA's went to telephone booking only) was that not the time to reprice or fine tune the mASA copayments so that QF could have tried to get more revenue from a product that was demonstrably popular? Either way you slice it and dice it, now, in hindsight, the optics are that QF at least look either incompetent, or misleading & deceptive.....

I think some posters here seem to be ignoring that medhead is not arguing that the mASA's were not generous, and in some cases may have provided easier access to status than QF desired, but I think he is trying to argue that it was up to QF to fix it. Instead they threw the baby out with the bathwater and lost the potential revenue they could have achieved by increasing the points and/or $$ co-pay, and also lost a bit of goodwill and PR on the way.

 

[TonyHancock]

I have earned almost 250,000 points from mASA's in my current year. (Ending this month, and not counting the mASA impact on loyalty bonuses and "additional benefits at 2400SC"). Am I sad to see them go? ....well yes. I have no idea about the costs to QF etc but it always seemed strange to me that QF stood alone, to my knowledge, albeit limited, of other airlines, with the concept of classic awards earning as a paid flight. (Pedants please feel free to list all of the carriers in Sierra Leone or wherever that prove me wrong!)

I also spent over $40k with QF too.

I can understand why QF wanted the removal of the mASA and have no complaints. Their removal has, however, highlighted to me the high cost of QF reward flights. (Something many members here have been saying for a very long time.)

It is harder for me to earn points now (25% less per year) but the cost of using them remains the same.

Previously 90% of my 4000+SC of travel a year, credited to QF, was on QF metal and I was prepared to pay a small premium to maintain that because I felt I received better service as a P1 than I would on other OW airlines.

I won't reach P1 and maintain Platinum with VA without the mASA, so there seem little point in paying that premium with QF, but I think QF know that, and suspect in order to keep my loyalty believe cutting SC earn on partners will do the trick.

So where does that leave me?

My course of action is pretty much set, given the frequency I travel to the UK, but I need my next year to pan out before I set off in a different direction.

Is Qantas listening? Probably, but the real question is are they hearing?

The reality is that there is a vocal minority here, and the majority of that minority want to know the loopholes and beat the system. (Of course there are many here that don't but I for one sure like a little, or even big win.) QF probably sees losing heavy mASA users, FF's using OW partners for QF status earn, and those abusing the cheap fare rort p), for status, as good for their business in the long run.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have earned almost 250,000 points from mASA's in my current year. (Ending this month, and not counting the mASA impact on loyalty bonuses and "additional benefits at 2400SC"). Am I sad to see them go? ....well yes. I have no idea about the costs to QF etc but it always seemed strange to me that QF stood alone, to my knowledge, albeit limited, of other airlines, with the concept of classic awards earning as a paid flight.

It is true that traditionally, award flights didn't earn points... BUT... (and it is a big 'but')... that all all started when award tickets were free! They were awards. We paid government tax and that was the end of it.

And many airlines still operate that way.

Qantas would like people to think that award tickets should not accrue points. And they've managed to keep that myth alive. However Qantas now levies ~$600 on an economy 'award' ticket. So to argue that these should no longer be eligible for SCs or points is laughable. At the very least, economy class awards should earn something like .5 points and SCs on QF flights.

 

[medhead]

Interesting number.

I've earned 25917 points from MASA in the last 12 months. Hopefully that will address any misapprehensions about my use of ASA as being abuse. I spent at least 232000 points buying those MASA.

I've also earned 21224 points from point plus pay, purchased with 100000 points. The cash copay on the points plus pay was significantly lower than the MASA cash money spent.

So at least double spent on MASA to get about the same number of points. Forgive me if I cannot agree with the suggestion Qantas lost money on MASA. The changed earning for QFF also means more of my money to Virgin.

 

[penegal]

The reality is that there is a vocal minority here, and the majority of that minority want to know the loopholes and beat the system. (Of course there are many here that don't but I for one sure like a little, or even big win.) QF probably sees losing heavy mASA users, FF's using OW partners for QF status earn, and those abusing the cheap fare rort p), for status, as good for their business in the long run.

Agree - AFF is a small highly engaged, and highly vocal minority, is is sometimes easy to forget that.

MASAs were popular on AFF and among AFF lurkers, but frankly the average Joe on the street has no idea.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Agree - AFF is a small highly engaged, and highly vocal minority, is is sometimes easy to forget that.

MASAs were popular on AFF and among AFF lurkers, but frankly the average Joe on the street has no idea.

yes but - 200 people or more a year might ask me 'who do you recommend I fly to [xyz] with?'

And those people may be flying in twos and threes. And they recommend to their friends and colleagues.

(Which is another reason why the strategic issues raised here on AFF are so important to be answered!)

So individually a small minority, but with huge potential to influence a much larger travel spend.

 

[JohnK]

Qantas would like people to think that award tickets should not accrue points. And they've managed to keep that myth alive. However Qantas now levies ~$600 on an economy 'award' ticket. So to argue that these should no longer be eligible for SCs or points is laughable. At the very least, economy class awards should earn something like .5 points and SCs on QF flights.

I don't disagree that surcharges on QFF award tickets is extremely high. No different to other carriers though.

Please list all the carriers with high fuel surcharges on award tickets that also allow those award tickets to contribute towards earning status.

Once we see that list then we can review whether Qantas made a mistake or not.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I don't disagree that surcharges on QFF award tickets is extremely high. No different to other carriers though.

VIRGIN
AA
UsDM
LM

and there is more.

 

[icarus]

I was a bit appalled yesterday when my partner redeemed 2 Classic Award economy flights CBR-BNE return, and the surcharge was over $370. That certainly seems excessive to me.

 

[muppet]

I was a bit appalled yesterday when my partner redeemed 2 Classic Award economy flights CBR-BNE return, and the surcharge was over $370. That certainly seems excessive to me.

Hmmm. I think you did something wrong. Should only be about $220 return for two incl 2x $7 cc charge. Direct that is, not sure about via SYD.