Is Qantas diluting the benefits of status?

[serfty]

OT: A bit

Nah. Origin charge me a fortune each month for supplying me with electrons, where do you get yours from?

Not completly true; actually ½ the time you supply Origin with e- via the Earth. You pay them for the privilege of sucking these iky things through your powered equipment/lights/goods so that they work!

 

[simongr]

In the vast majority of cases, WPs are spending much more than CLs on an individual level, and in quite a few cases WPs are also in charge of a significant amount of corporate travel spend that could match or even exceed the level that a CL may be in charge of.

Do you actually know any of this for a fact? If the CL member is a corporate CL member then it is likely that they will have discretion over which carrier their staff fly on rather than the WP who holds the travel budget directly in the organisation.

 

[Amberlower]

I don't see how this relates to lack of upgrades. Potentially you could have booked a Business award on this flight, rather than an upgrade?


I tried to get a Business award seat but they were not on offer...not even on request through the Pemium desk. I always prefer this option as an upgrade means paying for a seat + almost full Business award points as well. This is another thing that has changed for the worse. It used to be economy fare + economy points. Economically Qantas are better off upgrading.


This comes down to Qantas yield management stratefy and is why they are a (barely) profitable airline, whilst other are loss making. eg a number of American airlines have a big problem due to their generous FF programs that frequent flyers don't book premium fares as they have an expectation of being upgraded.

There needs to be a finer balance between upgrading people and getting them offside. What is the point if the plane is empty anyway?




In my recent experience QF planes have been much fuller than BA.

Not in mine. I would like to hear if anyone has booked a business seat on Qantas recently, close to departure and arrived to a full cabin. This has been my experience on BA, often.


Actually blew through near the crew seats in what was I believe the economy cabin.[/quote]

It was a joke...but I thought it wnet through the business cabin.

 

[klavdy]

Hmmm, don't post often but here's a good result for me.
Platinum FF,last month I booked the cheapest economy tickets BNE - LAX return I've ever seen for my self and partner.
Received un requested upgrade to Business Class both legs.
Result!

 

[Amberlower]

hmmm, don't post often but here's a good result for me.
Platinum ff,last month i booked the cheapest economy tickets bne - lax return i've ever seen for my self and partner.
Received un requested upgrade to business class both legs.
Result!

actually this is happening a lot lately on qantas as economy class is overbooked due to the downturn and high-end ff members are being bumped up to make space. I know a platinum member who travelled on business ff points fare with partner on economy paid fare - both were bumped up to first class on lax-syd flight. Unheard of previously, particularly to get a free upgrade while travelling on points. Every cloud has a silver lining i guess. Won't last, of course.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

There needs to be a finer balance between upgrading people and getting them offside. What is the point if the plane is empty anyway?

Actually, I believe the purpose of QANTAS is to make money for its shareholders (within the law). Just about everything is secondary to that.

Not in mine. I would like to hear if anyone has booked a business seat on Qantas recently, close to departure and arrived to a full cabin. This has been my experience on BA, often.

Flew to SG last Friday on QF31. J and F full (didn't check Y cabin, but EF showing that it was full). Flew QF6 SIN-SYD last night - J was full.

Is that recent enough for you?

 

[Amberlower]

Flew to SG last Friday on QF31. J and F full (didn't check Y cabin, but EF showing that it was full). Flew QF6 SIN-SYD last night - J was full.

Is that recent enough for you?

Did you book using points? I'd like to see you book a business class flight using points a few days before the flight and arrive to a full cabin. THAT has been my experience on BA more than once. NEVER on Qantas...and I'm talking international flights.

 

[NM]

THAT has been my experience on BA more than once.

I don't think too many airlines are looking towards BA as a good example of operating a strong and profitable airline business right the moment .

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Did you book using points? I'd like to see you book a business class flight using points a few days before the flight and arrive to a full cabin. THAT has been my experience on BA more than once. NEVER on Qantas...and I'm talking international flights.

Hmm - I'm not sure what your point is here then? If the flight is full in business, why would QF give seats away when they can sell them?

I think NM makes a good point WRT to BA.

 

[Amberlower]

Hmm - I'm not sure what your point is here then? If the flight is full in business, why would QF give seats away when they can sell them?

I think NM makes a good point WRT to BA.

My point is that Qantas doesn't give them away, even when the cabin is only 40% full. I makes people mad when they see this. BA gives them away if they are available, and unlikely to sell, which analysts are capable to a large extent, of predicting.
Re: BA's current predicament I don't think current times are seen as typical by anyone. I'm referring to the past 3-4 years.

 

[oz_mark]

My point is that Qantas doesn't give them away, even when the cabin is only 40% full. I makes people mad when they see this. BA gives them away if they are available, and unlikely to sell, which analysts are capable to a large extent, of predicting.

I guess that Qantas are trying to avoid having an entrenched sense of entitlement to upgrades if there is a free seat. After all, it is still better, long term, if they can sell business seats, rather than build an expectation that upgrades are easy to come by.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

My point is that Qantas doesn't give them away, even when the cabin is only 40% full. I makes people mad when they see this. BA gives them away if they are available, and unlikely to sell, which analysts are capable to a large extent, of predicting.

Hi,

Are we talking about booking full flights? or half-empty flights?

You mentioned booking a flight and arriving to a "full cabin". Now you're talking about a 40% full flight. I've been able to get seats on both types of flights. But not everyone can, and I can't always get one everytime I want one. But I've been able to do JFK-SYD, SYD-LAX or SIN-LHR (and vv) or whatever on a number of occasions without problems.

QF doesn't make a lot of seat available for gauranteed booking. But the process of requesting an *upgrade* is different for QF vs BA, and I suspect that there are probably quite a few cabins that are not quite full, where QF does fill the cabin *in the final 24 hours* by processing upgrade requests. That seems to give QF the ability to keep selling until the last day, and then give away the seats that are left over.

 

[Commuter]

I don't think too many airlines are looking towards BA as a good example of operating a strong and profitable airline business right the moment .

Precisely. I don't think BA's system works to the advantage of their shareholders than QF's system. As someone said, they're not there to serve their passengers - they are there to serve their shareholders (and thus the company/directors etc's own pocket as well, usually).

Often (or generally), as a consequence of attempting to serve their shareholders, they would need to serve their passengers, but that, you could say, is consequential.

Clearly, QF is doing better than BA financially speaking, and in some respects or even potentially 'many'. Passenger service-wise, I think QF is doing quite well, including award availability, upgradeability etc. I am unhappy with certain aspects of what QF is doing, but I give them credit - their yield management seems pretty good.

P.S. To Amberlower - award availability is there, if you choose to use QF's Any Seat award. It's just the 'cheap' awards that are restricted on QF. Good on them.

 

[Evan]

Sort of on-topic about upgrades....

SFO-LHR in F 2 days ago....

3 Emeralds, 2 x QF, 1 x BA
1 Sapphire BA
2 Ruby BA
No OP-UP's

And the rest not listed... and that was 13 out of 14 seats filled.

I was told by staff 3 of the BA ones were using points and he mentioned a lot of people have been using points recently for flights.

What were the other 7 people ? claiming points after the flights or simply not in Oneworld and just buying F fares !!! I guess by the AU passports etc a lot were doing around the world type trips like oneworld explorers but not in onworld and silly then they probably had no idea
Crew were suprised i was so aware of oneworld as they felt only start alliance had any real general real world knowlege with not so FF types.

Not really that relevant but since people were talking about QF and BA and how they fill cabins with upgrades i just thought it interesting.

 

[Dave Noble]

What were the other 7 people ? claiming points after the flights or simply not in Oneworld and just buying F fares !!! I guess by the AU passports etc a lot were doing around the world type trips like oneworld explorers but not in onworld and silly then they probably had no idea

Some may have have had their number in the booking but had no status and some may just not be bothered about frequent flyer mileage earning

Not sure why AU passports would necessaily imply any particular type of ticket though. r/t tickets can be purchased to go via US or via Asia ; could just have been wanting the extra baggage allowance or a stopover in the USA

Dave

 

[v8Statesman]

Sort of on-topic about upgrades....

SFO-LHR in F 2 days ago....

3 Emeralds, 2 x QF, 1 x BA
1 Sapphire BA
2 Ruby BA

I didn't think BA had OW Ruby.

oneworld - British Airways

 

[Commuter]

Status of non-status passengers would probably not have shown up on the manifest.

I also suspect there are a lot of people in F who are not members of FF scheme - if you have more money than you can easily spend, would you bother becoming a member? I wouldn't bother - what's the point in earning points/miles when you can just get your secretary to buy a ticket with cash for you and it causes you no suffering (I wish I were in that position!)?

Or, they may have been once-off travellers - they may be a loyal Star Alliance or Skyteam and not bothered joining oneworld because they don't normally fly on them.

I guess by the AU passports etc a lot were doing around the world type trips like oneworld explorers

Not necessarily. There are quite a lot of Australians living in the UK/Europe.

 

[Commuter]

I didn't think BA had OW Ruby.

oneworld - British Airways

You're correct, indeed, there is no BA OW Ruby.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Status of non-status passengers would probably not have shown up on the manifest.

I also suspect there are a lot of people in F who are not members of FF scheme - if you have more money than you can easily spend, would you bother becoming a member? I wouldn't bother - what's the point in earning points/miles when you can just get your secretary to buy a ticket with cash for you and it causes you no suffering (I wish I were in that position!)?

The reason why people who have lots and lots of money and fly F on full fare tickets have FF membership is so that they can get quaranteed seats, unlimited luggage allowance and all sorts of perks like Chairman's Lounge membership (or equivalent).

Friends I know are lifetime SQ Solitare (or whatever it is where you had to do 250,000 miles a year in paid F or J for 5 consecutive years) and they can basically get a seat (in First) with a couple of hours notice. When they were relocating they had a couple of hundred kilos of luggage each at no charge. (I think theyexceeded the 250,000 a couple of times over each year.)

mel-t

 

[Commuter]

The reason why people who have lots and lots of money and fly F on full fare tickets have FF membership is so that they can get quaranteed seats, unlimited luggage allowance and all sorts of perks like Chairman's Lounge membership (or equivalent).

What I am saying is that a lot of people wouldn't bother, not that all F pax with a lot of money won't bother. I know quite a few people who would not even dream of travelling in anything other than F where-ever it is available and never joined FF schemes, because they don't feel the need to (excess baggage charges don't bother them either because it's only 'cost savings' if they don't get charged them), and also because they don't fly 'that much'.