Is the Australian Landing Card Still Necessary in the Written Form?

[elanshin]

I actually hope that QF strikes a deal with the ABF/Gov that makes this electronic travel declaration exclusive to QF, QF codeshare and Jetstar flights only until at least the 2032 Olympics so it can help get their market share up. ABF already has a special relationship with Qantas as they agreed to install Qantas-only immigration facilities at Perth, so it’s nothing new.

As for the e-gates on arrival instead of ticket/kiosk, that should be applicable to all the relevant passports regardless of airline.

There are lots of big reasons why this is a terrible idea besides "QF only bad".

You're entrusting border security to a 3rd party where you don't have control over the app. In fact i find the fact that the trial is through the QF app to begin with a huge red flag and it should never be done this way.

Limiting to QF flights to and from NZ - sure, but not through the QF app. QF IT is a known weak point and the last thing you want is to have customs rely on it.

 

[Warragul]

ABF already has a special relationship with Qantas as they agreed to install Qantas-only immigration facilities at Perth, so it’s nothing new.

That was not ABF doing something special for QF. It was QF and WA interests putting up money, lobbying the political side of Government, who in turn instructed the admin side (ABF) to make it happen.

Nothing inherently wrong with that, but it wasn't ABF saying lets help QF get a commercial advantage.

 

[RSVKanga]

You're entrusting border security to a 3rd party where you don't have control over the app. In fact i find the fact that the trial is through the QF app to begin with a huge red flag and it should never be done this way.

Do you think Australia uses its own government-developed software and equipment for airport immigration? Most of the ABF’s systems at our airports are ‘entrusted’ to Amadeus and obviously Microsoft, the former of which oversees the ‘VisionBox’ technology in Australia’s e-Gates and the latter of which is used to record and process passport information. If we can trust these big multinational giants in handling this matter, then we can surely trust Qantas. Please don’t turn this into a fear campaign.

 

[Quickstatus]

They tried to digitise the IPC (incoming passenger card) many years ago but that project was cancelled.

Then they tried again in 2022 and that was also scrapped as the DPD (digital passenger declaration) App designed by Accenture was ty.

There will be a Transtasman digital ATD (Australian travel declaration) trial/pilot soon on select QF flights from NZ.
After completing the ATD, passengers booked on these flights will be sent a digital receipt via email and there will be a QR code that can be scanned by the ABF.

If we can trust these big multinational giants in handling this matter

Yeah like Accenture who got paid millions to develop a DPD which was then scrapped in 2022 because the App had such bad reviews.

 

[dajop]

If we can trust these big multinational giants in handling this matter, then we can surely trust Qantas. Please don’t turn this into a fear campaign.

I took not so much as lack of trust in Qantas per se. More a lack of faith in their IT systems, as most of us would see them as somewhat “buggy”. Hardly a “fear campaign”.

 

[elanshin]

Do you think Australia uses its own government-developed software and equipment for airport immigration? Most of the ABF’s systems at our airports are ‘entrusted’ to Amadeus and obviously Microsoft, the former of which oversees the ‘VisionBox’ technology in Australia’s e-Gates and the latter of which is used to record and process passport information. If we can trust these big multinational giants in handling this matter, then we can surely trust Qantas. Please don’t turn this into a fear campaign.

No, but there's a very big difference between inefficient government outsourcing their software to big companies where the government ultimately control how its deployed vs relying on a 3rd party.

This is not about fear campaign or anything. Have you seen ANY government in the world with their digital entry form be done through a 3rd party app of an airline? There's a good reason why it's separate.

 

[RSVKanga]

This is not about fear campaign or anything. Have you seen ANY government in the world with their digital entry form be done through a 3rd party app of an airline? There's a good reason why it's separate

It’s hard to find an example because most developed countries don’t even have this extra ‘passenger declaration card’ or ‘digital entry’ in the first place!

For most countries you only need a passport and sometimes a visa/eTA (this digital entry is NOT equivalent to an ESTA or eTA because it’s more of a one-off biosecurity ticket rather than a general immigration authorisation). Australia has a seperate system for eTAs. Since Australia and NZ have unique ecosystem and ecological factors, we place emphasis on this sort of thing and that’s why it exists. Are there any other countries that force all IFE-equipped aircraft to play a “Don’t be sorry, just declare it” video before they land in their country?

This is not the Australian Government outsourcing something like an eTA to Qantas. It’s simply a biosecurity declaration. So there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it being integrated into the QF app and it being exclusive to Qantas for the time being.

 

[Warragul]

Most of the ABF’s systems at our airports are ‘entrusted’ to Amadeus

They certainly are not, Amadeus send PNR data on behalf of their client airlines, but have no role or input on ABF/ HA systems or processes.

SITA are contracted to run the APP system, which starting from scratch now probably wouldn't be the case as their infrastructure was the quickest way to transmit messages when it started back in the 1990's.

 

[travelislife]

I actually hope that QF strikes a deal with the ABF/Gov that makes this electronic travel declaration exclusive to QF, QF codeshare and Jetstar flights only until at least the 2032 Olympics so it can help get their market share up. ABF already has a special relationship with Qantas as they agreed to install Qantas-only immigration facilities at Perth, so it’s nothing new.

As for the e-gates on arrival instead of ticket/kiosk, that should be applicable to all the relevant passports regardless of airline.

WTF, no way should a private business be getting exclusive access to a government system as you have suggested.

I have no problems with a trial being restricted to specific airline/route, but what you have suggested is ridiculous.

 

[RSVKanga]

They certainly are not, Amadeus send PNR data on behalf of their client airlines, but have no role or input on ABF/ HA systems or processes

Vision Box is the company that produces, manages and oversees the e-gate technology used by Australia.

Vision Box was acquired by Amadeus in April 2024.

 

[Warragul]

Fair enough, was unaware of that purchase. I think entrusted is a bit strong of an adjective. I reckon contracted is more appropriate.
But I'm a bit of cynic with these sort of things having spent years in system and vendor management space with the public service.

 

[Himeno]

The NZ e-travel declaration is far simpler. Can be done online. Linked to passport, which is swiped by the customs officer. NZ govt email specifically states no need to print out. No phone app needed.

Sounds like NZ thought about what they were doing.

A lot of these digital systems require that the pax have a working smart device upon arrival. Often also with an available data connection.
That isn't always possible. You can't expect that everyone's devices will have power remaining when they arrive. Not all devices can even access the internet outside their home country (especially if the airport wifi is too hard to access/non existent). If the digital arrival requirements need an app, that's just another fail point. You can't expect that everyone will even be able to access said app. It is very possible that any given app will not be compatible with your device.

If you need to print something out to have on hand upon arrival, well, not everyone has access to a printer.

 

[dajop]

Sounds like NZ thought about what they were doing.

A lot of these digital systems require that the pax have a working smart device upon arrival. Often also with an available data connection.
That isn't always possible. You can't expect that everyone's devices will have power remaining when they arrive. Not all devices can even access the internet outside their home country (especially if the airport wifi is too hard to access/non existent). If the digital arrival requirements need an app, that's just another fail point. You can't expect that everyone will even be able to access said app. It is very possible that any given app will not be compatible with your device.

If you need to print something out to have on hand upon arrival, well, not everyone has access to a printer.

IIRC at SIN they have tablets on hand in the arrivals area just before immigration for those who haven’t completed the arrivals form online to do so without needing their own internet enabled device.

 

[Himeno]

IIRC at SIN they have tablets on hand in the arrivals area just before immigration for those who haven’t completed the arrivals form online to do so without needing their own internet enabled device.

Yes, last time I entered SIN (late 2022), they had some computers set up on the side of the arrivals immigration queuing area for people to fill out the form.
When I filled out my paperwork (at home before departing), it said I needed to print out the filled in form, but no one asked to see it.
At that time, I had easy access to a printer. Now, it's more complicated to access one if I need to print anything.

 

[RSVKanga]

WTF, no way should a private business be getting exclusive access to a government system as you have suggested.

It’s already happening.

As said before, the ABF agreed to install and operate Qantas-exclusive immigration facilities in Perth. So a special relationship between QF and the ABF already exists and it can be developed further. Besides, this is not Qantas having exclusive access to an eTA or visa system, it’s a simple biosecurity declaration. If the appropriate $ is given and a deal is done, Qantas/QF Codeshare/Jetstar could and should have exclusivity for the electronic travel declaration.

 

[CaptJCool]

I liked the Egypt system
Do it online, fill in war and peace or build the equivalent of a pyramid to explain your purposes for visiting. then take a paper print-out of the approval to the arrivals immigration officer

OR
join the queue, spend US$25 on a lovely visa and head for the immigration queues. Get a stamp and enter the easy way

I did a Dom on international flight recently. The Australian system of get a paper ticket etc etc is mind numbingly government bureaucracy

The saving grace of the e-gates is now Australians are a designated user of them at Heathrow. Took forever for the UK to fast-track Aussies when we both share a head of State. Shows the irrelevance of our bureaucratic nightmare in “dragging the chain” and “tug a lug lug the forelock”

 

[sqrt()]

Last time I landed in SYD I had filled the form in pencil, they made me write over the whole thing in pen. I'll try crayon next time.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It’s already happening.

As said before, the ABF agreed to install and operate Qantas-exclusive immigration facilities in Perth. So a special relationship between QF and the ABF already exists and it can be developed further. Besides, this is not Qantas having exclusive access to an eTA or visa system, it’s a simple biosecurity declaration. If the appropriate $ is given and a deal is done, Qantas/QF Codeshare/Jetstar could and should have exclusivity for the electronic travel declaration.

ABF would not have installed services unless being paid the market rate for providing those services. There’s no ‘special deal’ happening here. It would likely be illegal if there was (anti-competitive behaviour, or perhaps breaching some sort of international agreement).

Unless they are going to completely redesign the form, it’s not just bio-security. There’s a box for coughography and drugs subject to import control… which covers just about any prescription drugs you may be carrying. Common medications for heart, cholesterol, whatever have to be declared.

That sort of information needs to be kept securely.

 

[dajop]

which covers just about any prescription drugs you may be carrying. Common medications for heart, cholesterol, whatever have to be declared.

Hmmm I wonder how many people actually declare , or would even think of declaring their prescription medicines they took with them overseas and still have a few left when they come back ….

 

[Warragul]

ABF would not have installed services unless being paid the market rate for providing those services. There’s no ‘special deal’ happening here.

Spot on, ABF made it happen once the money and direction from government was there. Not much of a choice, they do set minimum requirments on layout,infrastructure they need etc.