Was the Distance between BKK & KUL being Deliberately misstated by QFF? [Now Fixed by QFF]

[sudoer]

MH at it again with ex-BKK deals, book by month end for travel anytime in the next year (small surcharge for mid-late Dec)

Slightly more expensive than usual but there is an upside: no minimum stay requirement.

BKK-HKG is obviously the stand out with A330 with lie flat possible on all legs and an excellent selection of lounges in HKG.

Enjoy, and don't forget any discussion goes in the discussion thread!

 

[JohnK]

MH at it again with ex-BKK deals, book by month end for travel anytime in the next year (small surcharge for mid-late Dec)

Slightly more expensive than usual but there is an upside: no minimum stay requirement.

BKK-HKG is obviously the stand out with A330 with lie flat possible on all legs and an excellent selection of lounges in HKG.

Enjoy, and don't forget any discussion goes in the discussion thread!

View attachment 132120

@sbor90, in your first table ex-DPS you have BKK listed as 754 miles from KUL and 60 SCs. KUL-BKK is <750 miles and only 40 SCs.

Looks right in your second table.

 

[serfty]

@sbor90, in your first table ex-DPS you have BKK listed as 754 miles from KUL and 60 SCs. KUL-BKK is <750 miles and only 40 SCs.

Looks right in your second table.

GCMAP shows 754 miles Great Circle Mapper

Does Qantas credit less?

 

[JohnK]

GCMAP shows 754 miles Great Circle Mapper

Does Qantas credit less?

From memory 747 miles. I flew this route in business earlier this month and earned 40 SCs and 825 QFF points.

 

[jase05]

From memory 747 miles. I flew this route in business earlier this month and earned 40 SCs and 825 QFF points.

Same for me in April

 

[sudoer]

@sbor90, in your first table ex-DPS you have BKK listed as 754 miles from KUL and 60 SCs. KUL-BKK is <750 miles and only 40 SCs.

Looks right in your second table.

Thanks for mentioning this.

My first table was using a bunch of data spat out of gcmap, hence the 754. Second table I would have calculated BKK-KUL using the QF calculator, hence the discrepancy. I wonder if you could argue this given the IATA shows shortest mileage has being 754..

 

[serfty]

Well I guess Qantas are fudging this, conveniently forgetting that services have moved on from Don Muang (now DMK) and Subang (now SZB). These were the previous main airports of Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur before new ones were built at Samut Prakan (Suvarnabhumi, BKK) and Sepang (KLIA, KUL).

GC distance between DMK and SZB is 744 miles.

Great Circle Mapper: DMK-SZB

 

[QF WP]

So who is going to advise QF that they are using data from an old airport to calculate the SC's...

 

[sudoer]

So who is going to advise QF that they are using data from an old airport to calculate the SC's...

The Mrs & I are doing two BKK-KUL legs in the next 6 months, I will definitely be arguing for the extra 40 SC each based on the partner airline earning table & IATA TPM data. If QFF don't want to oblige I'll happily get the ACA involved. Will report back in February next year!

 

[docjames]

So who is going to advise QF that they are using data from an old airport to calculate the SC's...

Expect canned response:

Dear AFFer,

Thank you for your email concerning flight distances.

Qantas is well aware of the distances between airports.

We hope this clarifies the matter.

Joe Schmoe
Qantas Feedback

 

[wandering_fred]

Perhaps the ombudsman can ask how QF calculates the distances with particular emphasis on BKK?

Just wandering
Fred

 

[serfty]

Qantas have nothing in their T&C's these days on how the distance is calculated for SC earn. However for points earn is is as follows: (Frequent Flyer Terms and Conditions | Qantas)

9.3.3 Points may be earned for each Flight Segment travelled on Eligible Flights by a Member. The number of Points earned is either:

(a) specified in the Airline Earning Tables; or
(b) calculated using the shortest distance on the surface of the globe between the origin and destination of the Flight Segment, regardless of any intermediate stops, at the mileage rates set by Qantas Loyalty.

 

[Daver6]

If someone is going to raise it, social media might be the best approach. Bit hard to publicly arguing a differing distance or justify a made up distance in public.

 

[docjames]

calculated using the shortest distance on the surface of the globe between the origin and destination of the Flight Segment

I think this may be the key arguing point.

 

[RooFlyer]

I edited the e-mail to what i think is more likely.

Expect canned response:

Dear AFFer,

Thank you for your email

Joe Schmoe
Qantas Feedback

or, even more likely:

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well I guess Qantas are fudging this, conveniently forgetting that services have moved on from Don Muang (DMK) and Subang (SZB). These were the previous main airports of Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur before new ones were built at Samut Prakan (Suvarnabhumi, BKK) and Sepang (KLIA, KUL).

GC distance between DMK and SZB is 744 miles.

Great Circle Mapper: DMK-SZB

This is indeed the reason. This topic came up some time ago (as in a couple or so years ago). Nothing has been resolved.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

(b) calculated using the shortest distance on the surface of the globe between the origin and destination of the Flight Segment

Perhaps QF uses the distance from the closest fencelines of the two airports?

The distance from the NW corner of KUL to the SE corner of BKK would feasibly be a couple of miles shorter than the distance from the SE corner of KUL to the NW corner of BKK.

If someone is going to raise it, social media might be the best approach. Bit hard to publicly arguing a differing distance or justify a made up distance in public.

Additionally, perhaps AFF could write a short front page article and request a formal QFF response.

 

[serfty]

The distance from the NW corner of KUL to the SE corner of BKK would feasibly be a couple of miles shorter than the distance from the SE corner of KUL to the NW corner of BKK.

I did this with google maps and saved 0.12 miles ... (Google Maps)

(I did try using the centre of the terminals and came up with ~758 miles)

 

[justinbrett]

Being an airline, Qantas would (should) use standard air navigation processes for calculating the distances.

Each airport has an ARP (Aerodrome Reference Point) which has a specific lat/lon used for flight navigation systems. They often put an actual metal disc on the airfield at the precise point.

So using any flight planning system (such as skyvector.com), you can get the great circle distance between the two airports. The great circle route is the shortest distance between the two points in accordance with the definition above. It’s physically impossible to fly a shorter distance.

For the record, the exact distance is 655.9 nautical miles (aviation use NM, not statue miles), which equates to 754.8 miles.

Qantas would not be able to argue with this logic.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

Being an airline, Qantas would (should) use standard air navigation processes for calculating the distances.

Qantas would not be able to argue with this logic.

Good to know. Now who is taking up the fight?

I am already engaged with QFF on more than one matter and not in a position to open up a new front ...