Is there a doctor on the plane?

[walshy002000]

Good to know there's a 'good Samaritan' law out there. But again, this wasn't saying don't help at all, rather just if at all possible to offload to someone else.

Edit: Hmmm, just updated my avatar before posting and it's not showing in the post. Odd.

 

[legroom]

Good to know there's a 'good Samaritan' law out there. But again, this wasn't saying don't help at all, rather just if at all possible to offload to someone else.

Edit: Hmmm, just updated my avatar before posting and it's not showing in the post. Odd.

I am afraid to say that your view may be in the minority of medical people I know.

 

[ckck]

On this note, a friend of mine who recently got her MD said that given the increase in law suits, they now train doctors to not respond to the "is there a doctor in the house?" calls unless there is no other option and no one else is willing to put their hand up. Sad that we've come to this point where doctors are trained to only offer help when no one else can, instead of being first to offer assistance.

Bolding is my emphasis.

I would love to ask those involved in this training who they expect to put their hand up first if not a trained doctor? Are they hoping some little old lady with a pack of old band aids in her handbag would stop by and maybe try and make it all better?

Now if there was a situation e.g. heart attack in which both a MICA paramedic who had 20 years experience and a medical doctor who had just graduated from college and the two practitioners on discovering each others experience decide that the paramedic was better experienced in CPR and the newly graduated doctor stands aside and assists the paramedic in this situation I understand but in no way do I understand that a graduating doctor should be told to wait and only if there is no one else to assist that they should only then offer assistance.

Why bother going to med school if you are going to sit and wait to see if no one else to put their hand up *tsk* *tsk*.

 

[walshy002000]

I am afraid to say that your view may be in the minority of medical people I know.

Which is a good thing I was just sharing what I had been told by an MD, if it was incorrect then it can be ignored.

 

[harvyk]

Which is a good thing I was just sharing what I had been told by an MD, if it was incorrect then it can be ignored.

Perhaps the MD didn't like you and had already gotten their excuse ready "just in case"

 

[walshy002000]

You never know - I guess I'll just have to hope there's a more senior doc on board

 

[ckck]

You never know - I guess I'll just have to hope there's a more senior doc on board

What if they don't want to put up their hand? Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[walshy002000]

What if they don't want to put up their hand? Sorry couldn't resist.

Then I guess I need to start enrolling in med

 

[ckck]

Then I guess I need to start enrolling in med

So how are you going to administer first aid to yourself in the case of extreme emergency? you can't give yourself CPR.

While there are a small number of people working in medicine who are purely in it for the $$$ most people I know go into med to help others. So often when I talk to my colleagues (regardless of which branch of medicine or even in allied health) most everyone has a story about when they were a child/impressionable teen they became very sick with (insert condition here) and then the <doctor/nurse/physio/enter almost any kind of therapist here> made me all better and from that moment I knew I wanted to be a <enter medical job title here>.

Time and time and time again you here stories like this from all sorts of medical professionals. I think that is why we are going to get a 20 page thread :shock: on why that MD's training was misguided (if indeed that is what your MD friend was taught - s/he may have misunderstood).

The Australian legal system (so far) is still reasonable enough to allow people to genuinely give it a go in helping people when they are in need of help. They day that changes and first responders and even doctors are afraid of helping those who are sick is the day our society becomes very much poorer.

I just remembered... Another story you here from medical and allied health people is that they had a medical problem and no one could help them so they researched and learned all they could to help themselves find a solution to their problem (these people often turn out to be some of the best practitioners) usually really knowledgeable in their field and very well researched.

I encourage your to show your MD friend this thread and hopefully it may show them that it is ok to help people in distress.

 

[drron]

Further, the NSW Medical Practice Act specifically states that failure to render emergency assistance would be a case of "professional misconduct"

Section 36(l)

"Failing to render urgent attention

Refusing or failing, without reasonable cause, to attend (within a reasonable time after being requested to do so) on a person for the purpose of rendering professional services in the capacity of a registered medical practitioner in any case where the practitioner has reasonable cause to believe that the person is in need of urgent attention by a registered medical practitioner, unless the practitioner has taken all reasonable steps to ensure that another registered medical practitioner attends instead within a reasonable time."

Correct.And in NSW a doctor has been sued successfully for not providing help when asked.Google Woods v Lowns.

 

[puppysparkes]

Further, the NSW Medical Practice Act specifically states that failure to render emergency assistance would be a case of "professional misconduct"

Section 36(l)

"[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Failing to render urgent attention
[/FONT]
Refusing or failing, without reasonable cause, to attend (within a reasonable time after being requested to do so) on a person for the purpose of rendering professional services in the capacity of a registered medical practitioner in any case where the practitioner has reasonable cause to believe that the person is in need of urgent attention by a registered medical practitioner, unless the practitioner has taken all reasonable steps to ensure that another registered medical practitioner attends instead within a reasonable time."

Each state will have similar statutes. Amazingly medical practitioners in QLD weren't covered until the Civil Liability (Good Samaritan) Bill was introduced in 2007.

 

[Alanslegal]

I think you might be thinking of this one...

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....tions/ask-the-pilot-30478-197.html#post797496

PS: This was not easy to find, that thread is huge!

Perfect, that post it is.

Yes I tried searching too (and I failed)

 

[k_sheep]

Welcome to AFF.

Who is "they" are where are they?

I don't know too many doctors (in Aus) who wouldn't be prepared to assist in whatever capacity they could.

In Australia you are covered medicolegally by Good Samaritan laws and also your MDO in the event of being sued (provided you act appropriately in the situation / with the equipment you have available).

I know it's been widely disputed since you made this post, but I can confirm I was told the exact same thing, from a different medical school. We were told never to volunteer unless there was absolutely no one, and even then they hinted that we should just stand there wringing our hands so we don't "accidentally" practice negligently. The suggestion was to actually have an alcohol drink asap so you can claim incapacitation and refuse to help.

This was from our medical law lecturer.

That being said, I'm always happy to help ... however as I'm not in clinical medicine anymore, there's likely to be others who are more skilled and up to date than I.

 

[mardy]

I wonder how many with medical conditions report them as required by the conditions of carriage.
For example, showing signs of the flu is classed as "not suitable for travel" with most airlines.

 

[ermen]

It could be the hassle or threat of a lawsuit. Even if the case would be thrown out under the Good Samaritan carve outs, many medical doctors may not want to go through the hassle of potentially being sued in the first place.

Are there also jurisdiction issues too? Say for a QF SYD - LAX flight. Will the Australian MD be subject to US law or Australian law?

 

[jb747]

On one occasion, after the call for a doctor went out, a young woman came forward, and looked at our very sick passenger. After a quick assessment, she sent a steward back to get the bloke from the seat behind her. She was a recently graduated doctor. He was a specialist in emergency medicine.

Sadly the passenger died, but I've never thought well of the bloke who stayed quiet. There are no legal implications, unless you happen to perform a caesarian on a heart patient.

 

[puppysparkes]

I know it's been widely disputed since you made this post, but I can confirm I was told the exact same thing, from a different medical school. We were told never to volunteer unless there was absolutely no one, and even then they hinted that we should just stand there wringing our hands so we don't "accidentally" practice negligently. The suggestion was to actually have an alcohol drink asap so you can claim incapacitation and refuse to help.

This was from our medical law lecturer.

That being said, I'm always happy to help ... however as I'm not in clinical medicine anymore, there's likely to be others who are more skilled and up to date than I.

Are you able to advise if this was within say the last 13 years?

 

[drron]

Never think of the legal implications.The most serious emergency I had to deal with was on a JAL flight NRT-JFK.The call went out not long after we had gone over Chicago.I apparently was the only medico on the flight.
Fortunately the feed back from the docs in New York was that I had made the right decisions.

 

[k_sheep]

Are you able to advise if this was within say the last 13 years?

It was within the last 6. Can't quite remember what year of med school it was.

 

[legroom]

Perfect, that post it is.

Yes I tried searching too (and I failed)

Me too

I could not find it

Harvyk, you pulled a good one !