Is this a new charge by Qantas?

[ozbeachbabe]

But were they on the same pnr or separate ones? I've never seen it happen personally.

The article is still badly written, it plays it out that families are only seated together if you pay the fee.

That's exactly what the media wants you to believe & it's misleading due to the fact jounos have precious little comprehension of the checkin process. As mentioned by QF Inside most families would be automatically pre-allocated seats 24-48 hours by staff doing the preflight. If you elect to OLCI you would then know for certain the seats you are in are together.

I know it's not qantas, but on a recent flight on AA in the from Orlando to LAX, my wife, myself and my 6 and 7 year old children were all allocated seats I such a way that none of us were within less than 4 rows of each other. The gate agent was unable to help "you will have to ask people to swap with you on the plane".

And that's what we had to do ... Thank god there were a few kind people willing to swap ...

Most US carriers will allow you to pre-allocate seats at the time of reservations which can be months prior to your actual date of departure.

3 times I have seen it and in all cases they were on the same booking (seen it 8 times in total but not aware of the booking status), the PNR status was raised vocally by the affected parties at the checkin desk.

Yes the article is a beat up but its also based on some truisms, we know from various posts here that an aircraft is never 100% available for seating allocation and will often close off allocation prior to departure date, so a late family booking could run the risk of being separated. As for children being seated on their own, again the system can do this in reality but it will be flagged, my last 767 to Darwin I had a toddler beside me in 23B, and I was moved by the QP to 23K so the family could sit together.

I am sure some of our members with front line check in experience can add to mine with their own.

Some travel agents will make separate bookings for family members even when the booking is made at the same time so when someone says "but we booked at the same time" or "we're in the same booking" they sometimes are not. Domestically seat selection can be done several days in advance (no fee) as SO found out when he was able to allocate himself a seat on a BNE/DRW flight (he's NB) & his ffn wasn't even in the pnr. Once he had added the ffn in to the pnr he still saw the same seats available to him as when he had no status.

I would encourage more families to see if they can pre-allocate seats this way or at the very least do OLCI.

I have seen a family that was scattered over the plane when they checked in. There was a bit of work done by at check-in to get them back together (and I had to wait at the next check-in desk while that was done - they stopped check-in on that flight while they shuffled people). So it certainly happens.

Anectdotally, there was a bad run of it when Altea was first introduced.

After families were getting scattered QF gave infants and children higher PCV (pax commercial values) to avoid give families split seating but families must remember if booking via the QF website use "child" as the passenger type when making the reservation. Too frequently they just book everyone in the family as "adults" & the pax title of "Miss" or "Mstr" does not flag that person as a "child".

 

[mannej]

Oz- domestic seat booking is now at time of booking

 

[awilcockson]

Most US carriers will allow you to pre-allocate seats at the time of reservations which can be months prior to your actual date of departure.

I did that the day we booked the tickets. And then we got given the different seats at checkin

 

[awilcockson]

After families were getting scattered QF gave infants and children higher PCV (pax commercial values) to avoid give families split seating but families must remember if booking via the QF website use "child" as the passenger type when making the reservation. Too frequently they just book everyone in the family as "adults" & the pax title of "Miss" or "Mstr" does not flag that person as a "child".

That's very interesting to know, will have to remember that.

 

[Moody]

That's exactly what the media wants you to believe & it's misleading due to the fact jounos have precious little comprehension of the checkin process. As mentioned by QF Inside most families would be automatically pre-allocated seats 24-48 hours by staff doing the preflight. If you elect to OLCI you would then know for certain the seats you are in are together.

No - the journalist is highlighting the fact that the $20 per international sector charge for seat selection is promoted as a feature to "Choose the seat that suits you before you get to the airport with Qantas", but should more accurately be called a "If you want a guarantee to all sit together then you had better stump up" fee.

If you do not have status and don't want to potentially pay hundreds of dollars for this feature (assuming longhaul holiday with stopovers) then your only hope is to do Online Check-in at T-24 and pray that the cabin isn't max-ed out. God forbid that you have a mixture of PNRs (e.g. Award and non-Award tickets) because the old method of ringing up to link them is now not worth the paper it is written on.


Is it really so hard to design a system that allows pre-allocation of preferred seats to those that want to pay for it, and also meets the needs of those who don't care where they sit they just want to sit together? From the evidence here the answer may currently be "Yes"!

 

[ozmille]

I fail to see the problem. Before QF alowed you to pay for a seat you could not pre-select a seat untill online check in or check in. Now that you have the option to pre-select a seat at a cost it is a problem?

Let's all start flaming BA because if you don't have status you can't even select a seat in F or J...

 

[Moody]

I fail to see the problem. Before QF alowed you to pay for a seat you could not pre-select a seat untill online check in or check in. Now that you have the option to pre-select a seat at a cost it is a problem?

Let's all start flaming BA because if you don't have status you can't even select a seat in F or J...

The problem is in their greed to charge for seating self service (where previously it was free and assisted), they have failed to protect the rights of the status and cash and technology poor traveller. Now if you just turn up to check-in with your family you may find that you are scattered to the four corners of the plane.

This is a different argument to seat selection with BA - unless they also split up pax on the one PNR. If they do then they are as inconsiderate as QF and their muppets.

It's like a game of tetris but with simpler shapes. You fill the plane with little blocks as the tickets are booked, but allow people to rearrange their own block as long as any they move out of the way can be accommodated elsewhere. They seem to be able to cope with the 'shadow blocks' for status'ed pax, so why can't they sort out an algorithm that prevents pax on the one PNR from being split????

 

[serfty]

I fail to see the problem. Before QF alowed you to pay for a seat you could not pre-select a seat untill online check in or check in. Now that you have the option to pre-select a seat at a cost it is a problem? ...

Note strictly true.

Going back 5 or 6 years, NB PAX were able to preselect seats at no charge until ~25% of the cabin was allocated by calling Qantas (or their agents). PS and higher status had a far greater opportunity to select seats.

 

[fdken]

The real question is why would Qantas want to risk alienating its customers by not seating them together?

For the amount of extra charges which I imagine would have a limited take-up as people expect to be seated together anyway, the unhappy customers that result would cost them much more.

I know if I had not been shifted I would have been annoyed, would that make me change bookings in the future, quite possibly.

:?:

 

[ozbeachbabe]

In regards to international flights, familys or group bookings who havent selected their seat will be pre-allocated seats around -48 to -24hrs out from the flight. This is done manually by a staff member.

If bookings are not 'linked' we cannot seat bookings together as we don't know that these people are actually travelling together.
Children will generally always be seated next to their parents (or atleast one of them).

Passengers can choose to pay the $20 fee for their prefered seat, or simply it will be pre-allocated to them when the flight is being edited.

UMNR's will always be seated next to a female near the rear of the aircraft.

A few years back I was flying O/S with my family. It was with Qantas. I had previously rung them to request the 4 seats across the middle of the 747, and request a couple of special meals. It all looked good and the seat numbers appeared on QF.com and CMT.com.

At the airport I was told we were not seated together - i.e. they had split passengers on the one PNR. I asked why. They could not answer. I insisted on a row together and we ended up at the back of the plane.

Let me repeat this for those who cannot retain information. This was Qantas international about 3 years ago. Could people please stop confusing opinion with fact.

Maybe Qantas have improved their systems and would now never split up passengers on a single PNR or one where the PNRs have been linked. I'll believe that when Qantas tells me, not self-proclaimed experts on this site, and until then this particular "myth" is not busted.

Achtung Moody: The above quote doesn't sound like the ramblings of a "self proclaimed expert".

Well I had booked reward flights for my wife and I, 3 weeks ago, therefore same PNR I Imagine as they were on the same booking. I travel extensively, but usually on credit card points so no status. I tried to check in 22.5 hours before flight it was at 5:55am flight. I was allocated Row 52 and my wife 55 from memory. No other seats were available to move on screen.

I rang the frequent flyer number and they said as I had checked in I would have to try at gate. On dropping bags there was one seat closer (in Row 54).

I then checked with cityflyer desk and they moved me.

Therefore, I would say from experience you are not guaranteed a seat together if on the same PNR, however you should bloody well ought to be, I would have been pissed if it wasn't able to have been moved

Cheers

As award seats eg "X" class you a lower value than other paid commercial fares so unless you have status eg PS or above you may only see the last few rows of the plane. Having said that I've seen a NB with an OLCI boarding pass for 23J on a 767 when they were booked in "X" class so work that one out.

No - the journalist is highlighting the fact that the $20 per international sector charge for seat selection is promoted as a feature to "Choose the seat that suits you before you get to the airport with Qantas", but should more accurately be called a "If you want a guarantee to all sit together then you had better stump up" fee.

If you do not have status and don't want to potentially pay hundreds of dollars for this feature (assuming longhaul holiday with stopovers) then your only hope is to do Online Check-in at T-24 and pray that the cabin isn't max-ed out. God forbid that you have a mixture of PNRs (e.g. Award and non-Award tickets) because the old method of ringing up to link them is now not worth the paper it is written on.

Is it really so hard to design a system that allows pre-allocation of preferred seats to those that want to pay for it, and also meets the needs of those who don't care where they sit they just want to sit together? From the evidence here the answer may currently be "Yes"!

You clearly are not reading any posts by others who are trying to explain to you how it works because if you were you wouldn't sound like a stuck record every time you post.

The problem is in their greed to charge for seating self service (where previously it was free and assisted), they have failed to protect the rights of the status and cash and technology poor traveller. Now if you just turn up to check-in with your family you may find that you are scattered to the four corners of the plane.

Once again may I point out that they do sort it out even when people have elected to not pay the $20.00 seat booking fee approx 48 hours prior to travel when they do the editing of the flight which amongst other things includes preseating family groups who do not yet have seats alloacted.

It's like a game of tetris but with simpler shapes. You fill the plane with little blocks as the tickets are booked, but allow people to rearrange their own block as long as any they move out of the way can be accommodated elsewhere. They seem to be able to cope with the 'shadow blocks' for status'ed pax, so why can't they sort out an algorithm that prevents pax on the one PNR from being split????

Once again, read my paragraph above. You keep harping on one event that happened 3 years ago and making it the rule rather the exception when you really need to move on for your own good.

 

[Moody]

Ozbeachbabe - what position do you hold at Qantas that you know so much and I (a mere passenger) know so little? Will you personally give a financial guarantee that families on the one PNR will never be split up on a Qantas flight? I can then rest easy knowing that if Qantas stuff up I can seek redress from you, oh wise one.

 

[medhead]

Ozbeachbabe - what position do you hold at Qantas that you know so much and I (a mere passenger) know so little? Will you personally give a financial guarantee that families on the one PNR will never be split up on a Qantas flight? I can then rest easy knowing that if Qantas stuff up I can seek redress from you, oh wise one.

I would say that Ozbeachbabe would know a fair bit more than the average passenger. Her advice has a proven track record over a number of issues raised on AFF. So no need to challenge on that point at all.

As for your financial guarantee; the only certainties are death and taxes. No one is telling you it can't happen, but the fact remains that one does not need to pay the seat selection fee in order to sit together. As others have mentioned you experience happened around the time they were introducing a new IT system. Indicating a one off glitch.

 

[Undercover Brother]

Ozbeachbabe - what position do you hold at Qantas that you know so much and I (a mere passenger) know so little? Will you personally give a financial guarantee that families on the one PNR will never be split up on a Qantas flight? I can then rest easy knowing that if Qantas stuff up I can seek redress from you, oh wise one.

It would seem obvious that this is a forum on the internet, not a Qantas website. If you are silly enough to try to get a guarantee for ANYTHING to do with airlines you might have to think twice. Things never always go to plan, deal with it.

Also I would advise against attacking members offering advise, who in particular are very helpful to the AFF community.

 

[Moody]

It would seem obvious that this is a forum on the internet, not a Qantas website. If you are silly enough to try to get a guarantee for ANYTHING to do with airlines you might have to think twice. Things never always go to plan, deal with it.

Also I would advise against attacking members offering advise, who in particular are very helpful to the AFF community.

The member was not offering advice. The member was calling the original story to be a beat-up and the rest of us to be liars. The story was mostly a beat-up and contained many inaccuracies, but there was a nugget of truth to it borne out by passengers' actual experience.

My concern is that if the manual system that was totally controlled by the Qantas systems and staff (and that OzBB has so fastidiously defended as being impeachable) was able to occasionally split groups up, then what chance is there that it will be better when it is a free-for-all for those with status or who have the extra cash to stump up?

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but OzBB seems to be living on aother planet when it comes to reality not matching the theory.


BTW - I have never, ever, ever had my family split up in any other case of allocated seating. Why is it so hard for the airlines to protect family groups ahead of passenger choice of favourite seats? Don't answer that because it was a rhetorical question. We all know the asnswer, don't we?

 

[medhead]

The member was not offering advice. The member was calling the original story to be a beat-up and the rest of us to be liars. The story was mostly a beat-up and contained many inaccuracies, but there was a nugget of truth to it borne out by passengers' actual experience.

My concern is that if the manual system that was totally controlled by the Qantas systems and staff (and that OzBB has so fastidiously defended as being impeachable) was able to occasionally split groups up, then what chance is there that it will be better when it is a free-for-all for those with status or who have the extra cash to stump up?

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but OzBB seems to be living on aother planet when it comes to reality not matching the theory.


BTW - I have never, ever, ever had my family split up in any other case of allocated seating. Why is it so hard for the airlines to protect family groups ahead of passenger choice of favourite seats? Don't answer that because it was a rhetorical question. We all know the asnswer, don't we?

Except your one example happened after the altea system came in? In which case it has nothing to do with manually allocating seats. Then there is also the fact that one example does not prove anything. One example is certainly no basis for outlandish statements about free for alls.

I also don't think anyone here was called a liar. I certainly wasn't so don't include me in your claim that we were all called liars!

 

[JohnK]

I am in 2 minds about seating for status and non status travellers but I also do not think it is a good idea for a full service airline to charge for pre-allocated seating. It should be included as part of the ticket price.

As for splitting up families I do not think that is good idea but if getting families back together is a priority then maintaining the allocated seat of the status passenger is also a priority. I do not, repeat I do not, wish to have my carefully planned and pre-allocated bulkhead seat at the front of economy swapped for 73E down the back of the airplane just so a family can sit together. It is not too hard to disrupt someone else's seating. Leave mine alone.

I have a couple of experiences where one time my seat was taken without my permission when a family of four were seated as they were split up all over the cabin. I was told by the mother to sit "Over there" and I do not even remember where "Over there" was now but from memory it was a middle seat further back than where I was pre-allocated to sit in the aisle. I just stood my ground until cabin crew arrived and I was taken to an aisle seat further forward in economy.

The other time I was in 23J on a QF 767 SYD-BNE where a father was sitting with baby daughter next to me. Mother was down the back somewhere. I offered to move to an aisle seat 3-4 rows back so the mother can sit with her baby and I was given an onboard op-up to business class but still with economy class service.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I have a couple of experiences where one time my seat was taken without my permission when a family of four were seated as they were split up all over the cabin. I was told by the mother to sit "Over there" and I do not even remember where "Over there" was now but from memory it was a middle seat further back than where I was pre-allocated to sit in the aisle. I just stood my ground until cabin crew arrived and I was taken to an aisle seat further forward in economy.

The other time I was in 23J on a QF 767 SYD-BNE where a father was sitting with baby daughter next to me. Mother was down the back somewhere. I offered to move to an aisle seat 3-4 rows back so the mother can sit with her baby and I was given an onboard op-up to business class but still with economy class service.

Families travelling with infants are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to trying to get a bassinet on QF domestic flights 400 and above as status pax have the opportunity of selecting their seating at the time of booking which includes rows in front of the bassinets. As the pax names don't cut across from reservations to checkin until about 72 hours prior it's totally possible that all bassinet rows will be gone even at T-24.

One solution to this would be to either open forward seating to people with infants in the booking but that would be the same as giving them full access to all seats as you would if you were WP & I can't see a lot of WP's liking that one. Besides I don't think the boffins in QF IT could isolate a seat map to show row 23 only available then the next 10 rows blocked then say row 36 onwards available after that.

Another solution would be to block the bassinet rows on domestic flights as they do for international flights then either:

a) have airport staff allocate to pax with infants on a first come first serve basis at the airport
b) have airport staff allocate bassinet seats based on the youngest infant getting priority
c) have airport staff allocate bassinet seats only for those families who have requested a bassinet ie those with an SSR BSCT in the pnr
d) have airport staff allocate bassinet seats pax on a pax's tier status so a WP with a 6 month old would outrank a NB with a 2 month old

I can see 'issues' with all of the above scenarios however as somebody's always going to miss out.

Just as I don't agree with charging for exit rows I also don't agree with charging for seating as IMHO if people are not charged they're more likely to arrange their seats together which is one less family for the airline to have to pre-seat when they do the editing 48 hours prior.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

The member was not offering advice. The member was calling the original story to be a beat-up and the rest of us to be liars. The story was mostly a beat-up and contained many inaccuracies, but there was a nugget of truth to it borne out by passengers' actual experience.

I have never called anybody a liar.

My concern is that if the manual system that was totally controlled by the Qantas systems and staff (and that OzBB has so fastidiously defended as being impeachable) was able to occasionally split groups up, then what chance is there that it will be better when it is a free-for-all for those with status or who have the extra cash to stump up?

What you don't seem to 'get' is that there is no "free for all" for family groups as I previously tried to explain to you on more than one occasion. Let me give you an example: if a family of 4 have not elected to pay the seating fee to pre-book seats, airport staff pre-allocate them seats 24-48 hours prior to departure so when they checkin they are already seated together so it makes no difference really whether it was the old system or the newer one.

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but OzBB seems to be living on another planet when it comes to reality not matching the theory.

Always resided Third Rock from the Sun Moody!

The funny thing is whenever people use a sentence in the same context as you have with a "but" mid-sentance you always disregard everything said prior to the "but" eg I don't mean to whinge but....I'm not racist but.....I don't mean to sound like a stuck record but.....:!:

BTW - I have never, ever, ever had my family split up in any other case of allocated seating. Why is it so hard for the airlines to protect family groups ahead of passenger choice of favourite seats? Don't answer that because it was a rhetorical question. We all know the answer, don't we?

I believe I have already told you that family groups are protected (see above). You had one bad experience but I fail to see why you have to decided that this is the 'norm' & refuse to entertain the possibility that there is any truth to an explanation given by anybody who holds a view contrary to yours.

You bring about what you think about & you choose to dwell so much upon a past incident that history will repeat itself & we'll never hear the end of it.

 

[QF WP]

Moody, having known ozbeachbabe for a number of years (and just spoken to her via phone), I can confirm she does have a pax-facing CS role and has access to a wealth of internal information and knowledge, that she is attempting to pass onto all of us. Choose whether you want to avail yourself of the information...as you said yourself, your experience was 3 years ago, is before the newer seating system was put in place (as per medhead's comment) and was and is not representative of the normal process now.

 

[Moody]

Moody, having known ozbeachbabe for a number of years (and just spoken to her via phone), I can confirm she does have a pax-facing CS role and has access to a wealth of internal information and knowledge, that she is attempting to pass onto all of us. Choose whether you want to avail yourself of the information...as you said yourself, your experience was 3 years ago, is before the newer seating system was put in place (as per medhead's comment) and was and is not representative of the normal process now.

Lindsay - was my example the only one given in this thread? I am happy for people to say "What normally should happen is .....", or "Your experience was an abberration ...", or "I'm assured that the system is now fixed, and family groups can never be split up"

I am not happy to hear over and over again that I (and everyone else who volunteered similar stories - some with Qantas, some with other airlines) am/are wrong.

So let's call a truce - if OzBB is willing to admit that Qantas sometimes fails to "protect" groups, I am willing to agree that they try their best not to ... except if they can make a bit of money on the side. Fair enough?

(Where's Red Roo when you need him/her?)