JB not renewing his contract/is leaving

[cove]

JB has not done anything for the share price. The web site is annoying and has needed fixing for years.
Paying RB for the name seems pretty crazy. That money could have gone to improve the company.
The business class domestic product on an A330 is really good and forced Qantas into upgrades of their domestic fleet to match them.
I don’t know why they didn’t become a proper part of an alliance and that is a weakness that will probably get fixed with fresh eyes at the helm

 

[Must...Fly!]

Only if the money is there to support it, really. But they pretty clearly have to try something, or just give up on international completely and trade off the A330s once the lease is up.

 

[liamsal]

Maybe after JB leaves, there might be more of a consideration of VA joining *A.

I would've thought that they would consider SkyTeam prior to *A due to the recent separation from AirNZ and the strong alliance they have with Delta (who is skyteam).

 

[HeavyElectricity]

I would've thought that they would consider SkyTeam prior to *A due to the recent separation from AirNZ and the strong alliance they have with Delta (who is skyteam).

I see quite a lot of emphasis placed on the Delta partnership on here, and am always curious as to why (they're not even a shareholder of VA) - I think it's because maybe the USA (as a destination) is held in high regard on AFF? Personally I have a much stronger desire to travel almost anywhere else than the US (not that I would dislike it, it's just not high-up on the list).

Surely the partnerships with existing Star Alliance members (SQ, NZ, SA, AC) should also count for something too? Especially as SQ is a part owner (unlike Delta). Not that I really think an alliance is likely in any case, but if it did *A would be my personal preference.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

I am just mere speculating here, so there is no guarantee anything might change.
Who knows, the new CEO in 2020 might also follow the though process of JB in having a "roughcut" alliance will suffice as it currently is, and not join a true alliance.

 

[pauly7]

JB has not done anything for the share price. The web site is annoying and has needed fixing for years.
Paying RB for the name seems pretty crazy. That money could have gone to improve the company.

The Virgin name made a lot of sense when it was a red challenger low cost brand, an upstart, cheeky advertisng, joke telling staff, all the pretty sexist advertising etc!

Now it’s more of a ‘QF lite’ brand and really not behaving like a challenger so much anymore, more a strong alternative offer - the relevance of the Virgin association is very much marginal now except for simple brand recognition.

I expect they are locked in horribly long and complex contracts with RB and RB still being a (very minor) shareholder whose business model is just to live off the licensing will make it hard to get out.

Parking all that though I think it would be a brave but good decision to ditch the Virgin brand and use the $ to reinvest into some real product improvements to make them as a more distinct offering to QF.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

I see quite a lot of emphasis placed on the Delta partnership on here, and am always curious as to why (they're not even a shareholder of VA) - I think it's because maybe the USA (as a destination) is held in high regard on AFF?

Nope. It's the perceived closeness of the business relationship between the partners, based on numerous factors but irrespective of whether the USA is held in high regard on AFF.

Surely the partnerships with existing Star Alliance members (SQ, NZ, SA, AC) should also count for something too?

Not all partnerships are equal, the VA/NZ relationship is an obvious example of that. There can be perceived animosity even within an alliance, while other members are seen to cooperate closely.

Not that I really think an alliance is likely in any case, but if it did *A would be my personal preference.

Agreed on both counts.

Who knows, the new CEO in 2020 might also follow the though process of JB in having a "roughcut" alliance will suffice as it currently is, and not join a true alliance.

I think that's the most likely scenario, on financial/cost grounds if nothing else.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

Parking all that though I think it would be a brave but good decision to ditch the Virgin brand and use the $ to reinvest into some real product improvements to make them as a more distinct offering to QF.

Agreed. The licensed brand has some benefit but may not be particularly useful in VA's circumstances, noting its limited international footprint and the fairly two-horse nature of the domestic market.

I think they would need to stick with a V-word, and of course Velocity comes to mind (unless that's licensed as well).

 

[AIRwin]

Agreed. The licensed brand has some benefit but may not be particularly useful in VA's circumstances, noting its limited international footprint and the fairly two-horse nature of the domestic market.

I think they would need to stick with a V-word, and of course Velocity comes to mind (unless that's licensed as well).

Even the Virgin Mobile brand is being retired in Australia...

How about Voy-air to be in line with Voyeur magazine?

 

[Strategic Aviation]

Even the Virgin Mobile brand is being retired in Australia...

Indeed. Anyone remember Virgin Megastores?

Virgin Money still exists though.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Wiki says Virgin Money is owned by BOQ.

 

[pauly7]

Wiki says Virgin Money is owned by BOQ.

Whoever uses the Virgin brand still pays a licence fee back to RB, just like VA.

 

[basso]

I don’t know why they didn’t become a proper part of an alliance and that is a weakness that will probably get fixed with fresh eyes at the helm

It would need some changes in the list of shareholders no doubt.

 

[grubbidok]

I see quite a lot of emphasis placed on the Delta partnership on here, and am always curious as to why (they're not even a shareholder of VA) - I think it's because maybe the USA (as a destination) is held in high regard on AFF? Personally I have a much stronger desire to travel almost anywhere else than the US (not that I would dislike it, it's just not high-up on the list).

Surely the partnerships with existing Star Alliance members (SQ, NZ, SA, AC) should also count for something too? Especially as SQ is a part owner (unlike Delta). Not that I really think an alliance is likely in any case, but if it did *A would be my personal preference.

IMO the working relationship between DL and VA is the most seamless of any of the VA partners - in terms of recognition, access etc. VA also seems to be copying a lot of DL strategy (e.g. Economy X). I've noticed that VA appears to be very prominently included in a lot of DL promotions as well. Owning a share in VA hasn't always necessarily meant a close working relationship

 

[dajop]

IMO the working relationship between DL and VA is the most seamless of any of the VA partners - in terms of recognition, access etc.

It would seem if only VA could get their partnerships working like this (and perhaps add either KL/AF or the LH group in Europe), they would not necessarily need an alliance. In fact, if VA were to join Skyteam, the benefits that VA status members enjoy flying DL domestically might actually reduce (eg no lounge access on domestic flights, unless connecting to/from International flights).

 

[juddles]

There are some mega-carriers (think EK) that manage to exist without major alliances. But Virgin in Australia?? Now without NZ? They will die or join an alliance. 5 years tops for survival, but IMHO without a sudden alliance making, no more than two.

 

[Must...Fly!]

There are some mega-carriers (think EK) that manage to exist without major alliances. But Virgin in Australia?? Now without NZ? They will die or join an alliance. 5 years tops for survival, but IMHO without a sudden alliance making, no more than two.

What about all those other airlines around the world that exist without an alliance...

(not disagreeing that maybe they should be in one, but just playing devil's advocate)

 

[juddles]

What about all those other airlines around the world that exist without an alliance...

(not disagreeing that maybe they should be in one, but just playing devil's advocate)

I think that an aussie airline is in a hard place, competing with Qantas. And surely the trans-tasman market (ie NZ) is critical. They seem to have burned that. Now Virgin is just competing with QF on aussie soil, with nothing useful to offer off-shore. If I was a boss in Virgin I would be cough-scared right now.

 

[UP4014]

What about all those other airlines around the world that exist without an alliance...

(not disagreeing that maybe they should be in one, but just playing devil's advocate)

And for domestic only travellers that's fine, but once people start heading offshore they starting looking around. Of course not every one will go QF but if they do it once or twice then hey presto they may stick with QF when they go back to domestic travelling.

The airline business is littered with wrecks, in spite of what others have said about virgin having good backers it only takes one of them to change their mind and 10 years of losses can do that to your supporters.

 

[odysseus]

And for domestic only travellers that's fine, but once people start heading offshore they starting looking around. Of course not every one will go QF but if they do it once or twice then hey presto they may stick with QF when they go back to domestic travelling.

The airline business is littered with wrecks, in spite of what others have said about virgin having good backers it only takes one of them to change their mind and 10 years of losses can do that to your supporters.

QF themselves only service a few limited international markets - albeit the largest. And also have a reputation for targeting the premium passenger market internationally. Thus, for many international travellers, they will likely travel with a carrier apart from QF in any case. It's not like BA where they are the dominant international carrier out of their home market, with many options.

Thus, if significant international travel is going to influence, it's not like QF has a massive advantage there.