Jetstar in-air fight

[Guvner]

...if the pilots spoke to the passengers on several occasions, was the cost of a diversion fully explained? ...

I'm not sure I understand this? Are you suggesting that the pilot(s) should have constructed a Cost/Benefit Analysis, put together a slide deck and made a presentation to the unruly passengers all the while keeping the aircraft straight and level at 30,000 ft?

 

[juddles]

Some passengers 'praising' the crew. But how did the passengers get served this much alcohol? Or were they not drunk but just had a fight? Hard to tell with the way the media likes to sensationalise a story.

MEL, I don't like this potential moving responsibility onto airline staff. It is EXTREMELY hard to gauge the level of intoxication of someone you don't know - just ask any staff at the local bar. Some people are visibly affected after two wines, others can sink a hell of a lot yet not show it.

I am not boasting, that would be childish, but in years past i have on many occasions boarded a plane and been served alcohol after consuming an entire bottle of bourbon before the flight. My personality is calm and polite, and I can (could?) "hold my liquor", so never had any problems. But due to this I can fully understand how a group of guys can have sufficient alcohol in them to make them "explosive", but this cannot be reasonably detected before things went "south".

It would be extremely hard for staff to assess this before things got out of control. And as such it is extremely unfair to even consider the idea of blaming them for irresponsible service of alcohol. Many travellers, especially on a flight to a tourist destination, are likely to be in "high spirits" (pardon the pun), so this makes this identification of POTENTIAL troublemakers even more difficult. If some guys were behaving like prats and staff continued to fuel them with alcohol, that would be a different case, but IMHO that is almost never the case.

They should take total responsibility for their actions. End of story.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not sure I understand this? Are you suggesting that the pilot(s) should have constructed a Cost/Benefit Analysis, put together a slide deck and made a presentation to the unruly passengers all the while keeping the aircraft straight and level at 30,000 ft?

no.

but to emphasise the seriousness of the situation, passengers could be advised that should their behaviour continue, they may be liable for the costs of diversion, which could be many thousands of dollars.

that may have had an effect on behaviour.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

MEL, I don't like this potential moving responsibility onto airline staff. It is EXTREMELY hard to gauge the level of intoxication of someone you don't know - just ask any staff at the local bar. Some people are visibly affected after two wines, others can sink a hell of a lot yet not show it.

I am not boasting, that would be childish, but in years past i have on many occasions boarded a plane and been served alcohol after consuming an entire bottle of bourbon before the flight. My personality is calm and polite, and I can (could?) "hold my liquor", so never had any problems. But due to this I can fully understand how a group of guys can have sufficient alcohol in them to make them "explosive", but this cannot be reasonably detected before things went "south".

It would be extremely hard for staff to assess this before things got out of control. And as such it is extremely unfair to even consider the idea of blaming them for irresponsible service of alcohol. Many travellers, especially on a flight to a tourist destination, are likely to be in "high spirits" (pardon the pun), so this makes this identification of POTENTIAL troublemakers even more difficult. If some guys were behaving like prats and staff continued to fuel them with alcohol, that would be a different case, but IMHO that is almost never the case.

They should take total responsibility for their actions. End of story.

the airline equally has a duty to provide a safe environment for other passengers. an airline can't simply stand by and allow a riot on board because crew don't want to get involved.

my issue is not so much whether the airline owes the Bali 2 (not 6) and responsibility, but whether there is a responsibility to the other 300.

we have seen on the qantas documentary that crew do confiscate alcohol, and inform the captain, when passengers are consuming their own alcohol on board. if a crew member feels uncomfortable doing that, maybe it is an issue of appropriate training to be developed by the airline.

 

[juddles]

the airline equally has a duty to provide a safe environment for other passengers. an airline can't simply stand by and allow a riot on board because crew don't want to get involved.

my issue is not so much whether the airline owes the Bali 2 (not 6) and responsibility, but whether there is a responsibility to the other 300.

we have seen on the qantas documentary that crew do confiscate alcohol, and inform the captain, when passengers are consuming their own alcohol on board. if a crew member feels uncomfortable doing that, maybe it is an issue of appropriate training to be developed by the airline.

Sorry, but this sort of reasoning, without any hard facts to support it, simply serves to muddy the waters and take away responsibilty of those involved for their exceptionally poor and unacceptable behaviour.

 

[Guvner]

no.

but to emphasise the seriousness of the situation, passengers could be advised that should their behaviour continue, they may be liable for the costs of diversion, which could be many thousands of dollars.

that may have had an effect on behaviour.

so would maturity, responsibility, self-control, manners and a myriad other influences. I'm not convinced that any of them know what a consequence is.

 

[juddles]

..... an airline can't simply stand by and allow a riot on board because crew don't want to get involved......

Forgive me if I am completely wrong, but it seems in your point of view airline hostesses should be happy to confront any drunk / deranged / violent passenger? Have you ever actually "taken on" a violent person?

If I was in the local supermarket I would not expect the check-out girl to confront some lunatic in the interest of the supermarket providing me with a comfortable and safe shopping experience.

In such outrageous and abnormal situations I just expect each person to do what they can. We are all just human.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Forgive me if I am completely wrong, but it seems in your point of view airline hostesses should be happy to confront any drunk / deranged / violent passenger? Have you ever actually "taken on" a violent person?

If I was in the local supermarket I would not expect the check-out girl to confront some lunatic in the interest of the supermarket providing me with a comfortable and safe shopping experience.

In such outrageous and abnormal situations I just expect each person to do what they can. We are all just human.

yes, essentially, I am saying airlines have trained professionals who should able to deal with minor instances of conflict.

rather than think of them diminutively as 'hostesses', I see them as trained professionals with a primary function to ensure the safety of the aircraft and its passengers. of course each situation will be different, and the level of interaction will need to be assessed.

 

[juddles]

...rather than think of them diminutively as 'hostesses', I see them as trained professionals....

"diminuatively" ???????? Off course not.

"ensure the safety" - no they cannot - they can attempt to manage mild situations, but anything above that is unfair to ask of them.

Just a question, do they undergo hand to hand combat training and such? I am sure even modern day police would struggle to engage in the restraint of violent alcohol-fuelled pax in the confines of an aircraft cabin whilst unarmed.

Unfortunate situation, my priority would obviously just be get the plane on the ground asap. Which it seems they did?

 

[UP4014]

Where was the Air Marshall?

 

[juddles]

Where was the Air Marshall?

i think they only come with the Super Triple Maxi Bundle

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

I'm not sure I have any specific answers juddles, only that there are several issues at play. The conduct of the two passengers is not condoned or excused. But I think there are also questions around how the situation escalated. Cabin crew are trained with a range of measures for this type of situation and others which may affect the safety of the aircraft.

 

[Gold60]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

why not just ban ALL alcohol on the entire plane.

after all if people can't smoke on board, surely drinkers should be able to do without a drink for the duration.

Then just stock more bottled water, etc to make up for the dehydration, etc ??

 

[Guvner]

yes, essentially, I am saying airlines have trained professionals who should able to deal with minor instances of conflict.

rather than think of them diminutively as 'hostesses', I see them as trained professionals with a primary function to ensure the safety of the aircraft and its passengers. of course each situation will be different, and the level of interaction will need to be assessed.

Yes they are trained for various incidents but you can't be trained for every incident. Curious language you are oscillating between. In one post it's a riot and in another it's a minor instance of conflict. Yes, I would expect the crew to handle a minor conflict, but not a riot. That's what Police horses, capsicum spray and water canons are for, and they don't have them on Jetstar AFAIK.

 

[mannej]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

why not just ban ALL alcohol on the entire plane.

after all if people can't smoke on board, surely drinkers should be able to do without a drink for the duration.

Then just stock more bottled water, etc to make up for the dehydration, etc ??

How about no. Why should the majority have to suffer "Nanny state" type policies for the actions of the minority?

 

[Gold60]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

it would be more efficient, and a lot less stress all round ?? Just asking, out of curiosity that is all...

 

[Conrad_S]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

Had to laugh at this quote from News.com.

"Ms Papas, speaking from her coughet hotel last night, said that it appeared the second man was trying to calm down his friend by punching him."

Ah, bogans. You can give them the workshop on effective conflict resolution but you can't stop them from punching their mate in the face to calm them the heck down

It may not be a soffistkated method but it does work if persisted with

why not just ban ALL alcohol on the entire plane.

after all if people can't smoke on board, surely drinkers should be able to do without a drink for the duration.

Then just stock more bottled water, etc to make up for the dehydration, etc ??

They bring that in and I am never flying again

 

[Gold60]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

Conrad, some years ago, when i enjoyed a more than occasional tipple at times, i would have been with you on the stampede off the aircraft..

 

[eric2011]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

We all love a tipple, wether it be in the lounge or landslide bar, but what is the most disruptive item which many, many younger and young men take nowadays before they go out for the night with there mates. Not necessarily alcohol fuelled violence here either

 

[Foreigner]

Fortunately it was airplane and diversion was couple of hours. If such happened on a cruise, then?