Jetstarisation of CNS Routes

[Fruitcake]

It's interesting.......

I'm looking at flights ex-USA to CNS next Feb/Mar - and will no doubt arrive into SYD on QF12 (haven't decided class of travel yet - but for sake of discussion let's assume I fly F).

(I mean - why wouldn't I take advantage of the great promotional advertising that QF spends on luring US customers to the Great Barrier Reef....?? And, according to the promotional advertising - I get to enjoy the A380 aircraft, points and status credits, inflight service and entertainment.......... what a great way to travel to the Great Barrier Reef and an enticing offer to persuade me to fly QF and not NZ/DL/UA/CO/VA).........

So I will arrive on QF's flagship aircraft as a WP and F passenger.

Given the booking engine wants to steer me onto a JQ connection to CNS - I have some questions for QF:

(Red Roo - feel free to actually respond anytime you like)..........


1/ Will Qantas provide me with a voucher/refund/credit or similar to cover my expenses in transferring from T1 to T2?

(Remember - I would like to fly QF - but you're not letting me - therefore I'm not entitled to the T3 transfer bus)


2/ Will Qantas provide me with free WP baggage allowance on JQ in-line with my QF12 baggage allowance?
How will the interlining (or lack thereof) work?


3/ Will I have to transfer my own luggage to T2 and re-check in at JQ in the non-existent-priority checkin line?


4/ Will I receive Points and SCs on a standard booking for the JQ flight portion of the itinerary?


5/ Will I receive premium seat selection on the SYD-CNS JQ segment as a WP and/or F passenger?


6/ Will I receive any inflight service on the SYD-CNS JQ segment as a WP and/or F passenger?



They are serious questions Qantas - and they deserve serious answers....... You obviously already have a policy/procedure for this and I would like to know what it is????


EDIT - The more I reflect on the above questions - for the average punter (lucky for QF I'm still loyal), it's too difficult - VA is so much simpler and a consistent service right through.......


Alternatively - if the answers to the above questions are all "NO" - then I respectfully suggest that you immediately cease advertising the Great Barrier Reef (CNS) as a destination to your American customers as Qantas is not offering the service as advertised.

Arrive on QF12 at 6:10am, depart SYD on QF924 at 9:15am. Problem solved. Admittedly it doesn't help you on the return flight, but you only seem to be concerned about your incoming flight to CNS.

I'm assuming you cherry picked F class to prevent suggestions that you should connect via Brisbane, where there are still same-day connections ex-CNS on QF mainline.

However you are correct in that going via BNE you wouldn't have an A380 options.

 

[brad330]

A VA A330 would be a dream! That will propbably never happen. You can fly J on JQ tag ons from NRT and KIX to SYD arrviving in T1 and clear customs in CNS.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Most are simply not interested in flying JQ - period.

I did SYD-OOL return last week. I picked VA on the return, even though they were more expensive (by ~$20), just for the simple reason l don't like JQ.
Do you think QF/JQ realise peoples mentality towards JQ or they just don't care?

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I did SYD-OOL return last week. I picked VA on the return, even though they were more expensive (by ~$20), just for the simple reason l don't like JQ.
Do you think QF/JQ realise peoples mentality towards JQ or they just don't care?

I think the decision makers honestly think people will just automatically fly JQ if no QF flight operates.

OOL is a classic example of people flocking to DJ rather than fly JQ so if they plan to do that in CNS it will just be a case of Einstein's definition of insanity: doing the same thing over again & expecting a different result.

 

[docjames]

I did SYD-OOL return last week. I picked VA on the return, even though they were more expensive (by ~$20), just for the simple reason l don't like JQ.
Do you think QF/JQ realise peoples mentality towards JQ or they just don't care?

They also probably figure even if 25% of QF loyalists leave for DJ they still make more money on the 75% now flying JQ than the 100% that were flying QF.

 

[eastwest101]

They also probably figure even if 25% of QF loyalists leave for DJ they still make more money on the 75% now flying JQ than the 100% that were flying QF.

And then more and more leave to DJ, until QF have to reinstate their services because it is such a cash-cow for DJ, except now they have to offer status matches to regain their ex-QF customers and end up in a three way fare war where DJ, QF and JQ are all losing money. Two of which are your own operations. Great business plan.

 

[Limewood]

Could not agree more eastwest101 looks like an OOL all over again, when will these fools wake up. VA now probably has plans being drawn up for a CNS lounge .

 

[Fruitcake]

Could not agree more eastwest101 looks like an OOL all over again, when will these fools wake up. VA now probably has plans being drawn up for a CNS lounge .

VA has announced the Lounge will open next year, so I hope they've started drawing up plans!

 

[dfcatch]

Arrive on QF12 at 6:10am, depart SYD on QF924 at 9:15am. Problem solved. Admittedly it doesn't help you on the return flight, but you only seem to be concerned about your incoming flight to CNS.

I'm assuming you cherry picked F class to prevent suggestions that you should connect via Brisbane, where there are still same-day connections ex-CNS on QF mainline.

However you are correct in that going via BNE you wouldn't have an A380 options.

1/ I cherry picked QF12 because QF advertises the "A380 Experience" to it's American customers when advertising CNS and the Great Barrier Reef (I should find the emails..... Here somewhere).

2/ That time of year QF12 arrives at 8:20.

Yes QF924/926 still currently operate on the route - but my point is the booking engine is offering me QF 5954 as the connecting flight.

3/ the problem is even worse ex-CNS to QF11.

4/ And I cherry-picked F - because I want an example for a premium customer (ie. WP and/or F).

 

[dfcatch]

Oh - and for the sake of clarity - my point is simply :

1/ QF seriously have no understanding of the anything but JQ mindset out there.

Fact is - those willing to fly JQ already are flying JQ or TT. They're not flying QF.

2/ The illustration that Domestic bean-counters have no understanding or concept that Domestic doesn't operate in a silo.

And leisure destinations like CNS rely significantly on international connections and traffic.

I promise you - QF Dom doesn't talk to QF Int, and neither of them talk to QF Marketing, and no one talks to QFF (actually - the CEO does - because QFF is a profit center).

(and no - looking at and accounting for int connection load factors doesn't negate my above comment).

 

[medhead]

Oh - and for the sake of clarity - my point is simply :

1/ QF seriously have no understanding of the anything but JQ mindset out there.

Fact is - those willing to fly JQ already are flying JQ or TT. They're not flying QF.

2/ The illustration that Domestic bean-counters have no understanding or concept that Domestic doesn't operate in a silo.

And leisure destinations like CNS rely significantly on international connections and traffic.

I promise you - QF Dom doesn't talk to QF Int, and neither of them talk to QF Marketing, and no one talks to QFF (actually - the CEO does - because QFF is a profit center).

(and no - looking at and accounting for int connection load factors doesn't negate my above comment).

This is almost exactly the problem with the current management approach. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. QFF is not going to be a major profit centre for very long without QFi or QFd.


Sent from the Throne

 

[jetlagger]

Oh - and for the sake of clarity - my point is simply :

1/ QF seriously have no understanding of the anything but JQ mindset out there.

Fact is - those willing to fly JQ already are flying JQ or TT. They're not flying QF.

2/ The illustration that Domestic bean-counters have no understanding or concept that Domestic doesn't operate in a silo.

And leisure destinations like CNS rely significantly on international connections and traffic.

I promise you - QF Dom doesn't talk to QF Int, and neither of them talk to QF Marketing, and no one talks to QFF (actually - the CEO does - because QFF is a profit center).

(and no - looking at and accounting for int connection load factors doesn't negate my above comment).

This is almost exactly the problem with the current management approach. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. QFF is not going to be a major profit centre for very long without QFi or QFd.


Sent from the Throne

..And I guess the passengers are just the pawn figures in the whole game plan.. :evil:

 

[samh004]

Something not mentioned yet I don’t think, but with the recent decision to operate SYD-GLT direct services, instead of via BNE helping to alleviate the traffic nightmares through BNE, the pull out from SYD-CNS will surely force some QF loyalists to fly via BNE, and right back into the traffic issues there. Wonderful idea QF, solve one problem, create another. Though they technically created the problem and fixed another.

Could not agree more eastwest101 looks like an OOL all over again, when will these fools wake up. VA now probably has plans being drawn up for a CNS lounge .

VA has announced the Lounge will open next year, so I hope they've started drawing up plans!

With that huge space next to the QP, they really should get on with fitting it out.

 

[dfcatch]

In the latest AICD newsletter I see they are hosting the JQ CEO up here for a luncheon in Dec.

Looks interesting, I think I'll go!

 

[ozbeachbabe]

In the latest AICD newsletter I see they are hosting the JQ CEO up here for a luncheon in Dec.

Looks interesting, I think I'll go!

Look out JQ CEO.

Will it be a case of like a lamb to the slaughter or just a bit of innocent stirring of the possum?

 

[dfcatch]

Look out JQ CEO.

Will it be a case of like a lamb to the slaughter or just a bit of innocent stirring of the possum?

Going OT on my own thread... ...... but

In fairness - JQ is good for CNS - it's GREAT for CNS.

Any expansion in JQ capacity both domestic and particularly INT into CNS is an enormous win for the local industry.

The problem comes if that domestic capacity is at the expense of QF - particularly on key INT connection routes like SYD for two reasons:

1/ Business suitable flights

2/ INT connection suitable flights - particular those connecting to / from the A380.


I would still like to know, if, as an INT passenger arriving on the A380 from the US on a QF flight and QF ticket (regardless of class) - say for example LAX-CNS; whether I would have to pay and make my own way from T1 to T2, not being able to utilise the QF Domestic Transfer system;
whether I would have to pay for my standard 2 x 23kg bags from SYD to CNS etc etc.


With QF spending gazillions on marketing to US customer to come and visit the GBR - it seems pointless to then not provide the seamless experience that was being provided.

If it was me - I would happily entertain Jetstarising leisure routes - or focussing on using JQ for increases in capacity (as they already have been doing) - but I would absolutely maintain the standard routes to BNE/SYD/MEL with QF.

And that means reinstating QF 921/932.


So no OBB - I don't intend on any stirring - but they are legitimate questions, and I'm not the only person in the CNS market asking them.

 

[dfcatch]

Look out JQ CEO.

Will it be a case of like a lamb to the slaughter or just a bit of innocent stirring of the possum?

Here now

We'll see if anything interesting is gleaned beyond the expected mutual backslapping...


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

 

[dfcatch]

Sitting at the table with Stephen Moynihan - Communications Manager......

Didn't want to answer my question about CNS vs OOL airport competition for increased flights .......


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

 

[dfcatch]

1/ My question did get taken by the JQ CEO - although it was highly censored by the moderator (had to submit in advance).

Original Question:

"Jayne, given the recent ceding of Qantas flights between CNS & SYD to Jetstar, and the fact that these flights are crucial to international connections, with overseas passengers thinking they have booked Qantas flights with Qantas flight numbers only to discover they have been potentially 'bait & switched' onto Jetstar.... Can you categorically rule out further CNS routes being gifted to Jetstar - or as some call it - 'The Orange Cancer'?"


Moderated question that got asked:

"Jayne, given the recent ceding of Qantas flights between CNS & SYD to Jetstar, Can you categorically rule out further CNS routes being gifted to Jetstar ?"

She didn't directly answer the question - but in fairness she did take it and gave several minutes to the response.... which was basically a long-winded explanation that there are constant evaluations of the loadings and profitability of both QF routes and JQ routes. She specified that in their view there are two types of passengers - "Experience Pax" (those who value the premium experience on the full service airline) and "Price-conscious Pax". She acknowledged that where a route is taken over by JQ the experience pax are left in the cold, but it is a trade-off with the increased profitibility from the Price-conscious pax.
She was a little naughty and stated that QF hadn't actually ceded any routes to JQ (despite the fact that QF921/932 were in fact ceded), then went on to highlight that SYD-OOL had just been re-taken up by QF (I guess she made my point for me ).

Interestingly - many of my fellow guests asked me afterwards if I was satisfied with the response. When I mentioned that it was a good response (only possible response) for the JQ CEO to make - but that she played loose with the facts, they were surprised to learn that two QF routes had been lost. Goes to show than when you bury it in the press release amongst announcing new capacity - even those tourism types who SHOULD be paying attention to the details... clearly don't.
Needless to say they were concerned and disappointed once they realised that we had in fact lost QF routes.

 

[dfcatch]

2/ The JQ Communications Manager did decide to engage with me after I raised the issue of International pax booking QF flights (and paying the QF price premium) in good faith, just to learn that their connections were in fact on JQ.

I made the point that the fine print that states "Operated by Jetstar" isn't good enough when you're booked on a QF flight with a QF flight number and that you shouldn't expect overseas tourists to know the difference when all they notice is the QF number.

He conveyed the very cavalier attitude that passengers know and understand full well which carrier they are on. I disagreed and suggested that taking that attitude would be a poor judgement by JQ from a customer service perspective when it comes to customers booked on a QF flight.


He wanted an example so I used JQ NZ (with an example itinerary of a J-class pax booked on a QF booking flying ZQN-AKL-BNE-CNS (with ZQN-AKL operated by JQ on QF code). I made the point that this passenger needed to pay baggage charges in ZQN despite being a J-class passenger on a premium QF booking. Interestingly he stated that pax on QF code don't have to pay baggage charges.

When I pointed out to him that he was wrong and that not only do I have a CC statement and JQ Baggage receipt proving so, but that I also have emails from QF & JQ Customer Care confirming it - he condescendingly said "Well the customer's always right", got up and left!

He wasn't a very good Communications Manager

Although I feel the poor man walked straight into the bear trap... perhaps it would've been fairer if I had have identified myself as an AFF'er