Joint talks fail in Qantas Asia bid

[dajop]

Re: Qantas Asia strategy = database, database, database

IMO the Jetstar franchise should not join oneworld: What Qantas needs to do, is - increase the size of its database in Asia.

So Asians, flying around Asia on Jetstar need to be corralled into QFF. (To be able to enjoy loyalty privileges.).

I think you do have a point here. QF seem to completely ignore Asia as far as QFF goes - I guess Australian membership is profitable enough. But with SQ, CX, TG, MH, EK and NZ all competing on QF's "home turf" in the credit card loyalty business, I am surprised that QFF hasn't bothered with trying to get something in the SIN market.

Maybe the brand just too inferior to compete, but you do have TG, CX, MH and DL all participating in the credit card loyalty market in Singapore. With it being probably the QF group's 5th biggest port it's sort of surprising they have no credit card offer to go hand in hand with the Jetstar and QF brands (especially with the Plus fares now on offer on JQ/3K/VF). [Although a side note - I do note that 3K plus fares now offer either a $15 voucher or QFF pts/SCs]

 

[browski]

Re: Qantas Asia strategy update

Will add more weight to those screaming that it was a negotiation tactic....

I'm still bemused by the thread title implying that there was actually a strategy for Red Herring.

 

[ajw373]

Re: Qantas Asia strategy update

I unfortunately think this will mean the continuation of the slow death for Qantas International.

With a low cost Asian base
- Morning flights to the Asian hub to enable onward connections
- Ability to support traffic from secondary ports (ie Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide) hubbing to various Asian / European destinations
- More destinations in Asia/Europe at a cheaper prices (on your own/50% metal will always enable a better price than via a codeshare on someone else)

Without a low cost Asian base
- Flights will continue to be afternoon for the continuation to London
- I see further dropping of secondary ports
- Continued loss of pax flying anywhere but London, Frankfurt, Singapore, Bangkok
- More expansion of Jetstar at expense of Qantas

Indeed, but the biggest problem for Qantas international is a very distinct lack of destinations in Asia. These are the markets that are too small to for wide body aircraft from Australia due to our small spread out population.

Qantas really needs a good partner in SE Asia to feed into or their own full service airline in Asia.

 

[Timba-Jet]

Looking at what option remain for QF in SE Asia.

Would a QF-CX partnership ever work for both parties. I know historically it has been a touchy relationship despite being founding OW members. But to an outsider, this seems the logical path. Though I can't see why CX would need QF, more QF needs...

 

[kempvet]

Re: Qantas Asia strategy update

Give me a pleasant Jetstar Asia A320 flight any time to DL or AA domestic in economy on an MD80.

couldn't agree more, has anyone else noted that the aging of many things in the USA is occurring, thought that this was only the case in Eastern Europe, but I think that Russians may have a better deal with Y than in the USA, have flown many S7 flights, clean and all relatively new planes and far better cabin service. Sorry to get OT.

 

[777]

Because he is doing a good job as CEO of Qantas Group.

You are seriously kidding me. By what actual objective measure is the man doing a "good job"?

Profitability? ... Nope.

Share price? ... Nope.

Market Share? ... Nope.

Ability to strategically plan for the future? ... Nope.

Ability to implement his own self declared strategic plans? ... Nope.

I realise there are plenty who backed Joyce in his fight with the unions. Ignoring the question whether he actually got more out of grounding the airline that he would have gotten from actual negotiations (as far as i can tell the unions were pretty happy with the imposed settlement and not much actually changes), does anyone here actually think that any other respect Alan Joyce is actually good at this?

It's an honest question: apart from talking and acting tough of Industrial relations, what is actually better at Qantas because Alan Joyce is there?

I realise it is starting off a very different base but you ask the same question of Borghetti at Virgin and people fall over themselves to point out examples.

 

[Danger]

Re: Qantas Asia strategy update

Why doesn't the board just demote Joyce to CEO of Jetstar? He is obviously passionate about the low cost model, the public would be happy with this and he can forget about the headache that is QF international and let someone else figure out the mess. He can then grow Jetstar however he wants (which he already seems to have done).

In the current climate, moving to CEO of Jetstar would probably more appropriately be considered a promotion.

 

[elbarto]

Profitability? ... Nope.

Share price? ... Nope.

Market Share? ... Nope.

Ability to strategically plan for the future? ... Nope.

Ability to implement his own self declared strategic plans? ... Nope.

Last I checked, Qantas, as a whole, was profitable. The QFi losses have to be inflated by some creative accounting to give justification to their 'strategy'. The rest are valid points though.

 

[dukkha]

Last I checked, Qantas, as a whole, was profitable. The QFi losses have to be inflated by some creative accounting to give justification to their 'strategy'. The rest are valid points though.

Qantas returns of equity for the past three years is 3.23% in average. A frugal farmer can easily outperform such profitability by making a six-months term deposit (currently highest being anz: 6%), the risk of losing capital being guaranteed by Australian government. The whole business is losing money after inflation is taken into account (last three years being 3.1%, 3.5% and 3.6%). The earning for a share holder now commands less labour compared to the same share holder one, two or three years ago. Investing in Qantas (and arguably any airline) is not a way leading to wealth accumulation.

However, this is not entirely Joyce's fault since the problem of the airline industry is excessive capacity that leads to cut-throat competition and there are many things Joyce cannot do. Obviously he cannot negotiate labour costs below $1 per hour or even $1 per day as many of his Asian counterparts do, nor can he obtain fuel at a price lower than water that most of his middle east competitors do. He would not dream of any kind of government aid such as tax concession or subsidaries that most other national carrier enjoyed. His foreign investor is restricted to no more than 40% of shareholding at any time. Without lucrative domestic (fifo) market offsetting the loss-making international one, qantas would be bankruppted long ago, just as American airline did recently in November 2011. Those who spend heavily to gain a QFF LTG are betting that Qantas has a life expectation longer than themselves. It is extremely difficult to justify a favourable odd for most oridinary frequent flyers like you and me.

The whole airline industry is traditionally trading below its book value and the best way to help airline investor is perhaps to shoot Wright brothers before their invention takes off. Now the aircraft has taken-off, as a consumer, enjoy your subsidised fly when qan shareholders still can.

 

[markis10]

Interesting piece in the SMH today, upshot is that QF can now concentrate on being QF, I think that is a good thing, get back to basics and expand on what you do well while look at doing well again what you did in the past!

Back to basics for Joyce & Co

 

[Paddy55]

Interesting piece in the SMH today, upshot is that QF can now concentrate on being QF, I think that is a good thing, get back to basics and expand on what you do well while look at doing well again what you did in the past!

Back to basics for Joyce & Co

Yes, but does AJ know how to make QFi all it should be now that "Plan A" has disappeared?

He doesn't have a lot of time I think because DJ is nibbling away at the QFd pie, and that must be hurting a little.

 

[markis10]

Yes, but does AJ know how to make QFi all it should be now that "Plan A" has disappeared?

He doesn't have a lot of time I think because DJ is nibbling away at the QFd pie, and that must be hurting a little.

That's the billion dollar question!

 

[oz_mark]

Yes, but does AJ know how to make QFi all it should be now that "Plan A" has disappeared?

He doesn't have a lot of time I think because DJ is nibbling away at the QFd pie, and that must be hurting a little.

The other problem he has got comes from the idea of JQ turning into a long haul low cost carrier. Air Asia X and its shrinking long haul network has to say something about the viability of that idea.

So now we have a shrinking premium network, and an expansion of an LCC into long haul that the main competitor in the region struggled with, and may not actually be viable.

I don't know what their contingency plan was, but I hope that it's a good one!

 

[markis10]

The other problem he has got comes from the idea of JQ turning into a long haul low cost carrier. Air Asia X and its shrinking long haul network has to say something about the viability of that idea.

News this morning that they are pulling out of CHC.

 

[Paddy55]

News this morning that they are pulling out of CHC.

WTF :evil:

Can't find any word on the CHC pullout date and last night booked a ticket for Mrs Paddy CHC-SYD in April

 

[markis10]

WTF :evil:

Can't find any word on the CHC pullout date and last night booked a ticket for Mrs Paddy CHC-SYD in April

I am talking about Air Asia:

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

 

[browski]

JetStar are though ceasing their BNE-CHC flights from MAR 25, 2012