Lack of curtains separating Business and Economy on 737

[Toad]

It operates on two levels... platinums in economy getting offered business class amenities, but also on international 4-class flights, business class high status passengers getting offered first class amenity kits, food and beverages (including vintage champagne). So basically, a class above what they have ticketed.

Am aware how it all works. That’s what’s good about being in business on a 4 class aircraft getting a 1st class amenities lkit instead of another pencil case with cheap products in it. Also travelled in PE recently and did not receive any business class amenities. Following your philosophy I must ask why I didn’t.

 

[tgh]

Just a thought. Ok for the people who want to walk forward and use the lav at the pointy end because you consider you are allowed and disregard a placard that you are required to abide by as per previous post of CASA guidlenes and you know you are.
Q. What did you do when QF still had curtains and closed them after take off to the business section. Did you still just walk straight through to the business section of the plane ??????

Your premise is false.. IMO the whole keep 'em out argument is false.
There is no evidence from this thread that folks seeking forward relief are doing it as an exercise of right.
The overwhelming opinion is that some folks find themselves in urgent need and seek forward relief.
No sensible cabin attendant is going to risk dealing with a wet pool or smelly brown pile on the floor and an accompanying wet and smelly person just to enforce a class distinction.
I actually agree that there should be some form of barrier domestically and that a rope seems the way to go.
I am also of the firm opinion that the administration of this "barrier" should be flexible and sensible; in that a polite request ( or even the occasional non permitted transgression) for forward access should be gracefully accepted and tolerated by everyone.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Seriously? You expect every decision/choice people make to consider how it affects other people? Where does it end? Impossible and not warranted.

Actually you'd be surprised. We're not called the nanny state for nothing.

Aside from the general principles of 'manners', there's not much left of our behaviour that isn't governed by laws, by-laws, or regulations. I guess a lot of these arise because people can't make the right choices and decisions about how their behaviours affect others

Do we really need a 'no loud parties' policy? We only have it because some people abuse it and can't think. Do we really need laws saying 'don't speed'? Or don't start building work before 7am, or don't park over the footpath.

 

[Toad]

Your premise is false.. IMO the whole keep 'em out argument is false.
There is no evidence from this thread that folks seeking forward relief are doing it as an exercise of right.
The overwhelming opinion is that some folks find themselves in urgent need and seek forward relief.
No sensible cabin attendant is going to risk dealing with a wet pool or smelly brown pile on the floor and an accompanying wet and smelly person just to enforce a class distinction.
I actually agree that there should be some form of barrier domestically and that a rope seems the way to go.
I am also of the firm opinion that the administration of this "barrier" should be flexible and sensible; in that a polite request ( or even the occasional non permitted transgression) for forward access should be gracefully accepted and tolerated by everyone.

IMO your premise is partially false. I have witnessed on numerous occasions people sitting in rows 4 and 5 get up walk forward to the front when the rear toilets has no one there. Others have posted seeing similar behaviour. Also if what you say is true why has this thread got so many people jumping up and down about the issue even the CSMs themselves quoted as not happy and allegedly have partitioned QF themselves with this in an earlier post. Granted there are legitimate emergencies that people suffer that require an asap solution but I have observed for some mysterious reason numerous ones come from row 4 is that just coincidence and to top it off it appears to happen more when the trollies are out and that IMHO maybe but one of the reasons the CSMs have allegedly pursued this with QF themselves. I am only sharing what I have observed is that wrong

 

[UP4014]

Actually it's not. Someone else almost picked up my point - just those who disrespect those who have paid 4 times as much for business including everything that is included in that purchase. (Regardless of whether a rule or not) Qantas clearly annouce that the forward toilet is reserved for business customers.

Calling a passenger scum is slagging off people based on where they sit in an aircraft and not acceptable in Austrlalian society.

ISIS are scum, not the guy who buys a Y ticket because that's the best ticket for him or her. It could be taken as pretty offensive that J passengers think they deserve more respect because they bought a more expensive ticket.

Paying 4 times the price (a Y ticket may only be half a J class ticket or even closer in price by the way, I've seen them once at only $40 different between full Y and J Sydney to Melbourne ) does not grant 4 times he respect. Every person on a QF flight gets the same respect from the crew and should give each other the same respect and dignity regardless of front or back.

 

[Pushka]

IMO your premise is partially false. I have witnessed on numerous occasions people sitting in rows 4 and 5 get up walk forward to the front when the rear toilets has no one lined up to use them. Here is an another example. A QF flight recently in the boarding process. A passenger laptop in hand gets on in front of us and sits in Row 4. We are putting bags in lockers in business class. Amidst all the rest of the economy cabin boarding. This passenger gets up and pushes his way forward through the boarding passengers and business class and you guessed it to use the toilet. The CSM to her credit stood her ground and sent him back to the rear of the aircraft as he was in no obvious distress and was delaying the boarding of the aircraft. Now Im not saying there is no genuine needs to use the front lav because there is but to think no one would abuse this in IMO is wrong. As to my Original Q......

It is not wise the label the actions of all by an example of one.

 

[Toad]

It is not wise the label the actions of all by an example of one.

Where did I label it the actions of all. I said on numerous occasions I have seen these rows walk forward when the rear lav was vacant. They may have had a reason. I was quoting what I witnessed/observed nothing more. You have previously posted seeing the same thing from a person in row 4 just put all is stuff on his shadow seat and walk straight forward and not even look back

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Paying 4 times the price (a Y ticket may only be half a J class ticket or even closer in price by the way, I've seen them once at only $40 different between full Y and J Sydney to Melbourne ) does not grant 4 times he respect. Every person on a QF flight gets the same respect from the crew and should give each other the same respect and dignity regardless of front or back.

How much someone has paid does not in itself demand respect for the individual. However it's not unreasonable to respect people's quiet enjoyment of a product they have paid for.

In some cases the needs of others will override that quiet enjoyment. But is poor planning one of those?

 

[Matt_01]

A simple question of what happened to the curtain, 6 weeks later and nearly 400 posts on which dunny can be used . Time to move on?

 

[straitman]

A simple question of what happened to the curtain, 6 weeks later and nearly 400 posts on which dunny can be used . Time to move on?

It's obviously not so simple then.

 

[Toad]

A simple question of what happened to the curtain, 6 weeks later and nearly 400 posts on which dunny can be used . Time to move on?

I agree but the fishing has been great

 

[Gold60]

but quite entertaining....

It's obviously not so simple then.

 

[Toad]

It's obviously not so simple then.

Your tune up in the thread earlier today was great. Hate to see those type of posts and words used.

 

[Toad]

Totally agree, this is just a crazy idea, I flew to DPS return in Business and to be honest I would have been better off in an exit row over the wings, there was a constant stream of economy passengers clogging the aisle bumping my seat and getting in the way.

There is no exclusivity at all now, to be honest even Jetstar business is better and thats a big call.

I had the exact same experience in Feb up and back Doing the same trip again soon for anniversary but actually not looking forward to the ? QF business class experience again which I paid 2000+ for. Next time will be travelling Virgin or Garuda and do a comparison

 

[Toad]

I LOATHE the removal of the curtains... I'm paying $2200 from PER to BNE because I want a better flight experience. I don't want hoards of people traipsing through business class. I want to be able to use the loo within a reasonable time frame. When I travelled economy I NEVER used the J loo, c'mon people be fair, if you want business class services pay for it, just like I do.

Well said

 

[Toad]

QF told crew the removal of the curtain was a 'weight saving' initiative.

Then they told crew it was because top tier FF's sat in row 4 did not like the claustrophobic curtain blocking their view of a TV screen (moot now with BYOD for Q Streaming and WiFi). CSM's have written and petitioned QF to issue a policy regarding the use of the forward toilet by YCL pax.

Their response? - put a placard on the divider "Business Class Passengers Only Beyond This Point" - (you have to look for it!) - everyone ignores it.

But still no directive - "manage it on the day" was the company's reply which breeds inconsistency and frustration.

Next an email to the CSM's about 4 months ago saying they are "engaging with the stakeholders to resolve this issue" - stakeholders meaning FFPL and FFCL etc. who sit in row 4. Take pity on CSM's who are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Complaints are received by crew continuously from JCL pax and even from FF's in YCL questioning the crew as to why they 'allow' YCL pax to use the forward toilet. The best compromise seems to be not allowing YCL pax to queue in the JCL cabin and allowing JCL pax priority use of the toilet.

The only way this will change is by customers writing in - no end of emails from crew, citing service or security issues is going to resolve this.

Wow Interesting.
It appears like the CSMs also have an issue with this.

 

[Gold60]

YCL = Young Communist League ??

Wow Interesting.
It appears like the CSMs also have an issue with this.

 

[JessicaTam]

YCL = Young Communist League ??

Economy CLass pax?
JCL - Business CLass?

Just guessing.

 

[Gold60]

Thanks, could be . I thought CL might have stood for Chairman's Lounge, but that didn't make much sense.

Economy CLass pax?
JCL - Business CLass?

Just guessing.

 

[Toad]

YCL = Young Communist League ??

Thanks, could be . I thought CL might have stood for Chairman's Lounge, but that didn't make much sense.

Yep you got it.
Much like DYKWIA (do you know who I am)