LAX to SYD Award Flight Booked but Flying out of SFO, What to Do?

[kangarooflyer88]

I'll be flying out with my partner on the 20th of July on QF12 from LAX to SYD. When I made the booking, I planned to be in LA at the time, but will actually be in SF on that date. As you could imagine seats for the route are hard to come by but I managed to request 2 seats be released as an economy classic award as a valued World Platinum member back when I made the booking in late Feb (during DSC BTW). I called in today to see if I could change the origin to SFO so that it would be SFO to SYD (via LAX) as there was AS classic award availability that would work. However, the agent advised me that I could not change departure airport since it is an international ticket and that I would need to request a refund then call back to get them to book that for me. As you can imagine I am a bit concerned about doing that given how challenging it was for me to get a seat requested in the first place (for reference, I requested DFW > SYD, SFO > SYD, LAX > SYD and YVR >SYD and only LAX > SYD came back successful).

What I have done in the meantime was to book the Alaska flight separately as a refundable ticket, along with an additional refundable Delta ticket for SFO to LAX. The Alaska flight departs at 6:59 PM (arriving into LA 8:39 PM) whereas the Delta flight departs at 5:15 PM (arriving into LA at 6:49 PM). The thinking there was that should the AS flight get cancelled or worse still delayed, I would have options on day of departure to ensure we make the connecting Qantas flight. I understand that since these are separate tickets my bags won't get through checked meaning I'll need to pick up the bags and recheck them at TBIT.

Is there anything else I should think of protect this flight? In particular, I'm somewhat worried about missing the Qantas flight. For instance, if for some reason I cannot get to LA on time is this something I can just call up Qantas and make a change or get a refund? It's my understanding that you must give 24 hours notice to do this.

Any feedback here would be appreciated.

-RooFlyer88

 

[SYD]

HUCA.

If there’s AS award seats visible on QF, they ought to be able to add that to an existing ticketed flight.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

HUCA.

If there’s AS award seats visible on QF, they ought to be able to add that to an existing ticketed flight.

Thanks for the reply. Would this simply be a matter of adding the sector to the ticket (i.e. turning the one-way into a multi-city) or does it involved a change in the departure airport for the purposes of ticketing?

In any event, I'll give it a go later today.

-RooFlyer88

 

[RichardMEL]

QF should just be able to add the AS sectors. I see that flight with 2xY and 2xJ rewards available. I don't buy what you were told. I am sure I have done this myself on CR tix involving the US.

Most importantly, will the 3 hours give enough time for the shower?!

 

[serfty]

@kangarooflyer88 I would not bother.

It's not a "oneworld" award. So, as far as classic rewards go, AS to QF/AA is considered a change in award type* , so will be assessed as an extra "trip".

This means it would cost an extra 20K points per passenger irrespective of being on the same booking or not.

Just book it separately, making sure you have at least 4 hours between ex SFO arrival and LAX departure.

* See part (c) of the definition for "Trip" in the Qantas Frequent Flyer Terms and conditions.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

If there’s AS award seats visible on QF, they ought to be able to add that to an existing ticketed flight.

QF should just be able to add the AS sectors. I see that flight with 2xY and 2xJ rewards available. I don't buy what you were told. I am sure I have done this myself on CR tix involving the US.

Thanks for the advice. I gave Qantas another call and asked to add that flight added to my ticket and there was no issues there. All in it was 30,000 points + $12 USD in taxes n' fees (10,000 points + $6 per pax for the SFO to LAX flight per pax plus the change fee of 5,000 points per pax).

Would I be correct in assuming that my bags will check through to Sydney and would be the same baggage allowance as Qantas (i.e. 3 bags per pax)?

Most importantly, will the 3 hours give enough time for the shower?!

Actually it's less than 3 hours for the shower. Remember, Alaska Airlines arrives into terminal 6 of LAX and Qantas takes off from TBIT. Which means it's a brisk 20 minute walk airside to get to that terminal. And it's actually closer to 90 minutes if you factor in a detour to the AA Flagship lounge. Don't worry though, I'll push everyone aside.

@kangarooflyer88 I would not bother.

This is not a "oneworld" award. So, AS to QF/AA is considered a change in award type* as far as classic rewards go, so will be assessed as an extra "trip"; hence costing an extra 10K points per passenger irrespective of being on the same booking or not.

Just book it separately, making sure you have at least 4 hours between ex SFO arrival and LAX departure.

* See part (c) of the definition for "Trip" in the Qantas Frequent Flyer Terms and conditions.

Ordinarilly I would be inclined to agree with you. With the points being spent here it's certainly not the best value. However, since I am travelling with my partner, I want to minimize the amount of drama involved with flights getting delayed and cancelled. By this point we will have been on 11 flights on this trip crossing two continents. Notwithstanding the fact that both Alaska and Delta both have very low cancellation and delay rates, the last thing I want to have happen is us missing that connecting flight to Sydney with us being out the points spent on the ticket and possibly not being able to find an award seat to bring us back to Sydney. Also by bringing this into one itinerary it means that I don't have to faff about with collecting my bags at LAX and re-checking it for Qantas and instead can go straight to the lounge. It also means we get the full protection of the Montreal Convention. Meaning if we mis-connect at LAX not only would Qantas need to get us on the next available flight, but they'd have to cover meals, hotels and other out of pocket expenses since it's an international itinerary.

-RooFlyer88

 

[serfty]

Also by bringing this into one itinerary it means that I don't have to faff about with collecting my bags at LAX and re-checking it for Qantas and instead can go straight to the lounge. It also means we get the full protection of the Montreal Convention. Meaning if we mis-connect at LAX not only would Qantas need to get us on the next available flight, but they'd have to cover meals, hotels and other out of pocket expenses since it's an international itinerary.

How lucky do you feel? The worst place I have had disrupts in the USA is for ex SFO -fox and all that. I would not consider booking to arrive into LAX from there after 6pm - even on the same booking. QF12 would board 11pm that evening.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

How lucky do you feel? The worst place I have had disrupts in the USA is for ex SFO -fox and all that. I would not consider booking to arrive into LAX from there after 6pm - even on the same booking. QF12 would board 11pm that evening.

It’s no longer a concern once it’s on the same itinerary since Qantas or Alaska has to take care of all of that. Yes it does mean less time at the QF First lounge. But it also means we don’t have to spend a whole day at the airport which adds injury to insult on what is already a long trip.

As for boarding that’s not a big deal, we tend to board last anyways since there are no benefits to boarding early, particularly in coach (unless Qantas has resumed pre-flight champer service for World Platinums). And if I recall correctly it’s a couple of minutes walk from the First lounge to the gate that will have our Airbus 747M back to Sydney

 

[equus]

would Qantas need to get us on the next available flight

It doesn't necessarily have to be the next available flight, and if you misconnect due to later arrival or delay from the AS flight, it is not Qantas' problem - it is Alaskan who are on the hook to organise the alternatives and look after you.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

It doesn't necessarily have to be the next available flight, and if you misconnect due to later arrival or delay from the AS flight, it is not Qantas' problem - it is Alaskan who are on the hook to organise the alternatives and look after you.

American and Australian law says they must put you on the next available flight if you want.

 

[ChrisMars]

American and Australian law says they must put you on the next available flight if you want.

I don't think there is a law for that. Maybe the term you are looking is bundle of rights?

 

[DC3]

American and Australian law says they must put you on the next available flight if you want.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I don't think there is a law for that. Maybe the term you are looking is bundle of rights?

Schedule 1 of the Civil Aviation Legislation Amendment (1999 Montreal Convention and Other Measures) Act 2008.

Specifically Article 19 states that airlines are liable for to $10,000 AUD in damages occasioned by a delay. This means if an airline puts you on a flight several days later due to a flight disruption, you can simply buy a new ticket and seek reimbursement under the law.

 

[ChrisMars]

Schedule 1 of the Civil Aviation Legislation Amendment (1999 Montreal Convention and Other Measures) Act 2008.

Specifically Article 19 states that airlines are liable for to $10,000 AUD in damages occasioned by a delay. This means if an airline puts you on a flight several days later due to a flight disruption, you can simply buy a new ticket and seek reimbursement under the law.

Where does it say they must put you on the next available flight?

American and Australian law says they must put you on the next available flight if you want.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Where does it say they must put you on the next available flight?

It doesn’t specifically say that but it does say you can claim up to $10,000 AUD in damages. Now I’m not an expert on fares, but I suspect most walk up one-way economy fares to Australia will be less than that amount.

 

[serfty]

Is there anything else I should think of protect this flight? In particular, I'm somewhat worried about missing the Qantas flight.

There have been some reasonable responses in relation to your question; it seems you have your own plan.

Good luck with your plan.

Good luck with getting Qantas to successfully add the AS flights to a multiple segment awards booking without you having to eventually email [email protected].

Good luck with your view of the Montreal convention.

 

[SYD]

Good luck with your plan.

To be fare the plan was reasonable given the circumstances.

Good luck with getting Qantas to successfully add the AS flights to a multiple segment awards booking without you having to eventually email [email protected].

I reckon AS might be easier than AA but yes, unless that new eTicket arrives within 24 hrs be prepared to return to QF.

Double checking on QF MMB that the APIS has flowed through to the new booking would be wise.

Good luck with your view of the Montreal convention.

Yeah, relying on that to get you home on time is like having your lawyer fly shotgun with you ever time…

 

[kangarooflyer88]

There have been some reasonable responses in relation to your question; it seems you have your own plan.

Good luck with your plan.

I don't see how I have my own plan here. I asked for advice, and was told my options were to either call up Qantas and have them add the AS sector (which they did) or roll the dice and book the AS flight separately.

Good luck with getting Qantas to successfully add the AS flights to a multiple segment awards booking without you having to eventually email [email protected].

Update: I received a confirmation email and the plain text travel document from Qantas along with receipts. Additionally the AS sector now appears on my itinerary both on mobile phone and desktop. I should also point out that 30 minutes after making the change an agent from QF called back to grab API details which I provided. The agents I spoke to sounded overseas by voice and the background noise (one agent sounded like they were outdoors). Could this be that QF has made improvements in agent training?

Good luck with your view of the Montreal convention.

It's not my view of the Montreal convention. The law is the law and is no different from something like the EU261 or Canada's APPR other than the fact that it applies globally across most countries. The fact of the matter is countries around the world have recognized for many decades now that the ability for carriers to transport passengers across international borders is a privelege and not a right, and part of that privelege is accepting liability when they mess up. As an aside, the United States actually forces airlines flying internationally there to waive liability limits resulting from personal injury. Whether one is successful in small claims (should it ever come to that) remains to be seen, but this would also apply with EU261 and APPR if the airline simply ignores their requirements under those regulations too.

-RooFlyer88

 

[SYD]

I should also point out that 30 minutes after making the change an agent from QF called back to grab API details which I provided.

Good to see they’re being proactive on that. The website version of MMB warns that eTickets can’t be issued without it (read international flights), but they no longer prompt for DoB during the online booking process .

 

[RichardMEL]

Though shouldn't the API already have been in the existing booking? Although perhaps it may not have automatically propagated to AS when flight was added.

I agree it is proactive to call (or better yet to have ensured it was there during the initial process)