Let's talk about Ryokans

[rbjhan]

@rbjhan
Can you please review the oldest ryokan in Japan? I suspect you may have in your other TR.

And which one would that be?

Edit, I don't recall staying in a very old ryokan let alone the oldest....

 

[rbjhan]

Now that we've seen the more high end ryokans, how about something cheap (but cheerful)?

Yamanoha, Unatsukionsen, Toyama
15K, Feb 25

Not the lowest price per se, but definitely the best value imho.

This is a very large ryokan.


Spectacular views in the lobby lounge.


My room had the same view


12 tatami size, Japanese room.


And one of the best public baths I've been.


Dinner and breakfast were both buffets.




To offer this price, obviously they had to cut cost somewhere. Food as already mentioned.
Service was pretty much like a city hotel as well.
For that price, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
And the view +onsen was certainly worth it, and some.

 

[Quickstatus]

Edit, I don't recall staying in a very old ryokan let alone the oldest....

Apparently 1300years old??
(Sometimes a connection to history can be a gimmick)

 

[rbjhan]

Apparently 1300years old??
(Sometimes a connection to history can be a gimmick)

I'm curious, what makes you think I've been there?

 

[Quickstatus]

I'm curious, what makes you think I've been there?

I don't know anyone who knows so much about Ryokans.

 

[rbjhan]

I don't know anyone who knows so much about Ryokans.

Well I have a friend who has been to about 50 ryokans.
My count is at 34 as of today....
Obviously we are only talking about Aussies here....there are a few Japanese bloggers I follow...

 

[Quickstatus]

My count is at 34 as of today.

34 more than me

 

[rbjhan]

Another absolutely cheap and cheerful one.
Well I did go all the way to Tottori

Kaike Seaside Hotel
6K (no meals), Nov 22

Yeah it was cheaper than most business hotels! I wasn't expecting much to say the least...
Room was nice, and the view!
*Kaike onsen is on the Sea of Japan coast.


Onsen


Massage chairs


A slight problem was no restaurants nearby
Sure I could have gone to Yonago city, or you know, could also just eat Konbini food....


Ah yes, nobody here spoke English back in 2022 and I doubt it has changed....

Even for no frills onsen ryokan, you'd probably only find such value in Chugoku or Tohoku, honestly.

 

[rbjhan]

There is a Japan Association of Secluded/Secret Onsens (Hitou)
No it's not a joke.
It can be identified by this lantern.


The Association was established in the 1970s. Back then (their economic bubble era) large size ryokans are popular, many financed by companies run social events etc. The small, traditional ryokans in areas without convenient transport options were being left behind. So some of them got together and started this association to promote themselves. Now there are over 100 member ryokans. But they stay true to their original concept of a hitou, traditional, unique, generally small, rustic, often very hard to get there!

Nakanoyu, Nagano
21K, May 24

Nakanoyu was actually fairly large for a hitou.
One entire wing (lower left) was for climbers (or if you don't mind actual share bathrooms ), nearby Yakedake is very popular.


Lobby


My room was a 6 tatami Japanese room.
In general I don't expect any other type of rooms in a hitou.
*There was toilet+sink, no shower no bath.


Best thing here was definitely the outdoor bath!

 

[rbjhan]

This being Nagano, food was....not the highlight as far as I'm concerned
There's going to be trout, soba and Iwana Yaki and the like....






And Japanese breakfast was not going to be anything other than meh, 99% of the time!


I do like it though. Mostly the outdoor bath, but also the seclusion.
You see mountains and nothing else.


Planning to visit more hitous in the future that's for sure！
Might even go back to Nakanoyu since it's close to Kamikochi where I certainly plan to revisit.

 

[rbjhan]

I am not saying all my ryokan stays were great though.
Time for some negative reviews!

Hoshinoya Karuizawa
30K (no meals), Feb 2019

First of all, after staying in several Hoshino Resorts I've come to the conclusion now that this group's ryokans are just not for me. They also have business hotels in the cities which are fine, such as this one. Mainly because you don't expect much service in a bare bones business hotel! If the price is right I can put up with self check in machines

However I have standards and expectations of what a ryokan should provide...and clearly that's not what they are aiming for.

Start with the good things, I must say their properties are all very pretty, insta-friendly you might say.
The one in Karuizawa is no exception. Even on a grim winter day without snow...




However I did think those villas by the main pond had a major privacy problem...

 

[rbjhan]

So I booked a room in a villa that's to the back of the area.




There's a nice cypress bath but no onsen water...


For onsen you need to visit the public bath which is not a problem in itself. However their design was, funky shall we say... Part of the bath was completely dark, like a cave through a small entrance door, you couldn't see your own hands kinda dark
I'm not sure who thinks it's a great idea??? You can't even tell if someone's already in there (or how many)! How do you relax??
Yeah I got out of it real quick and never visited again. Ah yes forgot to mention you must book 2 nights minimum here.

So the only choice is another public bath outside of the gates. This one is operating like a sento and open to everyone. Filled to the brim as you can imagine from all guests staying in the area and day trippers also.

I booked no meals, but did try their breakfast once.
Again, place was stunning.


But the food! Very meh for 4000 Yen!
Suffice to say I had all my meals elsewhere...luckily there were some restaurants in the area.


This, unfortunately, was not even the worst part...

Since the Japanese all prefer to be cooked in their sleep (), what I normally do is ask for a blanket to replace the heavy winter doona. Ah but here they just couldn't understand me in the phone....granted I didn't speak Japanese back then, but still, other places knew what I asked.
So I had to dressed up, hiked from my villa back to the front desk, which was not a short walk....used Google Translate, finally got the idea across.....
Great I thought, fixed it.

There's no closet in the room, so I put the winter doona on the floor (or sofa? can't remember now) thinking they would take it away the next morning. Imagine my frustration when I came back in the afternoon to find the doona back on the bed inside the duvet cover, and the blanket on top of it....
I've stayed in so many hotels/ryokans in Japan and asked for a blanket, this was the only time some brain-dead did this.
Zero thoughts went into the service.
Sadly this was true across the board with Hoshino Resorts, in my experience.
The staff were all very young, some serious issues with their training and recruitment, but hey I'm not their HR. I vote with my wallet.

100% do not recommend.
Unless you just want to insta? Or tik tok Then it's perfect.

 

[rbjhan]

Speaking of which, the only time someone hung up the phone on me was also at a Hoshino Resort.
Ah yes, see the trend here?

Kai Nikko
46K, Oct 2019

So, what happened was, I arrived at the Nikko Lake Chuzenji area around midday. I knew it was not possible to check in, but wanted to drop my bag off. Couldn't find the entrance to the ryokan so I called them. Whoever picked up the phone, after my first few words, just said "I don't speak English" and that's it, he hung up.
I almost couldn't believe it

Or maybe I could. After the Hoshinoya Karuizawa experience. Unfortunately Kai Nikko was already booked by then and it was non-refundable. I did promise myself this would be the last one. That's another thing I dislike them coz most ryokans do not do non-refundable plans! Even city hotels in Japan generally don't do this, exception being the global brands.

Anyways, I managed to find the entrance eventually and drop off my bag, it was a female staff at the front desk then and she spoke reasonable English. During my time there I estimated the guests were at least 60% foreigners, so who put that guy in charge of phones?!

Again, room was beautiful.




The onsen was nice too, so no complaints.

Ah but here comes the final nail on the coffin

Nearby restaurants only do lunch, so you had to book dinner, captive audience....

The food hadn't even arrived yet, I saw this menu and started a live complaint session with my friend.


Salmon sashimi and grilled salmon? Cost cutting much?
Plus the grilled salmon tasted about as good as it looked...


Didn't help them that the day after I stayed at Ichijoh, at half the price, with 10 times better food and service!

* Why I said they were cost cutting.
Basically Salmon was not a Japanese thing. Most are imported from Norway which is why the name is often written in Katakana サーモン.
Due to the parasites, Salmon was not used as a sushi topping until maybe the 80s. Mostly were eaten grilled or fried instead. Salmon is/was the poor man's fish in Japan. But honestly even judging by taste alone I'd say there are so many better fish out there, Maguro, Kinmedai, Kinki, Nodoguro, Buri...the list goes on....
It is slowly changing now, due to the low price Salmon is popular at conveyor belt sushi places and the like.
However I don't think a high end sushi restaurant will be caught dead serving salmon. Ditto high end ryokans!
(Not to mention that the same ingredient should not be appearing twice in one meal! Themed dinner excepted ofc)

In comparison, this was Ichijoh's sashimi, also not a coastal region.



Kai Nikko was providing low level service and food at a high price

 

[Quickstatus]

12 tatami

6 tatami

Thank for putting this in - it is a good indicator of room size

Konbini food.

Is 7-eleven ubiquitous, or are there Japanese originated Konbinis?

Japanese all prefer to be cooked in their sleep

Oh dear this is no good. I want bedrooms to be chilly.

 

[rbjhan]

Is 7-eleven ubiquitous, or are there Japanese originated Konbinis?

711, Lawson, Family Mart, these are the big 3.
There are others but most likely you will see one of the big 3. Personally I saw more Family Mart in general.

Oh dear this is no good. I want bedrooms to be chilly.

You can't change a nation Japanese people just like it warm, I have no idea why...
Easy to adapt though, ask for a blanket! Most understand just fine, Hoshinoya was, hmmm simply bad....

 

[Quickstatus]

ask for a blanket

could still be too warm.