Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes in Ukraine

[UP4014]

Well, things have changed too since the Cold War. I don't see any business traveller booking YYZ-HKG on AC if it requires a refueling stop while CX will be able to offer non-stop YYZ-HKG flights over Russia.

While I haven't looked for a few years, CX is run and part owned by the Pommie Swire Group. A lot of people would call them Chinese but for me they are a western airline based in HK. (it was founded by a Yankee and Aussie)

I could fly Areoflot to save an hour between Soul and many places as they can cross North Korea and western airlines cannot, but I am more than happy to take the extra hour in the air and not fly over a country that doesn't want me.

Matt

 

[Himeno]

If it happened, airspace around Anchorage would get busy again.

 

[drron]

Interim report out from the Dutch.NY Times-
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/10/world/europe/malaysian-airliner-ukraine.html?smid=pl-share&_r=0

And the full report-
http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/upload...3acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf

 

[Foreigner]

While I haven't looked for a few years, CX is run and part owned by the Pommie Swire Group. A lot of people would call them Chinese but for me they are a western airline based in HK. (it was founded by a Yankee and Aussie)

Somewhat like HSBC with origins around HK and Shanghai. Of no consequence to me. I would like to fly CX more often and I'm yet to open a bank account with HSBC though I had shares in it.

 

[anat0l]

Agree, but I think AY would suffer the most of all "Western"airlines. AY marketing strategy is 100% based on its direct flights to Asian destinations.

Guess they'll just have to rely maybe on many codeshares or make refuelling stops. I don't know what the laws are like in Finland, but perhaps they may get some one-off financial protections or the like for the extra financial pain.

Not that many of the other European airlines will fare better - having to take a longer way around will cost them money all the same, with the additional costs being commensurate to the number of services they operate, or will operate.


In real terms, what does "closing airspace" really mean? "Any aircraft which fly over our airspace will be shot down"? Gee, we could have WW3 before you know it.

 

[defurax]

In real terms, what does "closing airspace" really mean? "Any aircraft which fly over our airspace will be shot down"? Gee, we could have WW3 before you know it.

This is going a bit off topic (maybe the mods would like to move these posts to a new thread discussing Russian sanctions).

But recent history has shown us that civilian aircraft are better to stay away from conflict zones. Although, some countries are a bit less sanguine in their response to airspace incursion. In this case the Swedes did not shot down the US military plane... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/04/w...ance-plane-crossed-into-swedish-air.html?_r=0

 

[anat0l]

This is going a bit off topic (maybe the mods would like to move these posts to a new thread discussing Russian sanctions).

But recent history has shown us that civilian aircraft are better to stay away from conflict zones. Although, some countries are a bit less sanguine in their response to airspace incursion. In this case the Swedes did not shot down the US military plane... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/04/w...ance-plane-crossed-into-swedish-air.html?_r=0

I suppose it's an extreme case. Naturally it would be wise for civilian aircraft to avoid conflict zones as they do now, and if airspace is "closed" to them they should also avoid it.

That said, it's not like a farmer saying to you, "stay off my paddock", and he erects a tall fence of electrified barbed wire to keep you out, let alone that if you are caught trespassing anyway he could call the police to have you arrested. Russians can't physically close their airspace so craft can't fly through it. Nor can they, say, get planes up there and yell, "You are now illegally in Russian airspace! Land now and you will be given a fair trial!" They will most likely not give any ATC assistance to any foreign aircraft if the airspace is closed, let alone diversion airports may become very difficult. I suppose that last point will likely be one of the bigger issues which will convince airlines not to consider flying over closed Russian airspace (if it comes to it) before anyone even thinks about the risk of being shot down by the Russians.

As your attached article shows, the plane wasn't shot down, though much annoyance was had.

 

[Himeno]

If Russia barred western airline overflights, wouldn't they lose a lot of money from overflight fees?

 

[defurax]

If Russia barred western airline overflights, wouldn't they lose a lot of money from overflight fees?

Alan Bowen on BBC gave an annual figure of $300M for all flights using Russian airspace (no idea of breakdown by carrier).

 

[UP4014]

Reported in todays media, an Australian passenger had an oxygen mask around his neck/head, so looks like at least some people would've known what was coming. Tragic and sad.

Matt

 

[Denali]

I was wondering could it had become wrapped around his neck by wind turbulence? I mean sometimes things get caught up and wrapped and you wouldn't be able to do that if you tried.

 

[Ansett]

Personally I feel that the media are clutching at straws and that the mask may be the result of may things including the fact that he was put on oxygen by the crew prior to the event.

It is a hell of an assumption to make that the passengers knew that they had been fired on and then had time to reach up and pull the mask and then put it on etc.

It is also totally irresponsible of the Foreign minister to make such an announcement with out the knowledge of the relatives of the deceased.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think it's too early to tell. The Dutch foreign minister made the remark, incorrectly, that the mask was around the mouth of the passenger. this was later retracted. The minister was being questioned whether he had over exaggerated his speech to the UN... a speech which allegedly upset many of the victims' families.

without a secure crash site it could be that someone tampered with the evidence.

 

[UP4014]

The moment of depressurisation the masks would drop, I do think there would have been time to put one on and spend the next seconds wondering what was happening.

Matt

 

[amaroo]

It's a pity that Dutch tosser has a big fat mouth .... massive inappropriate and insensitive statement to make on chat show IMHO.

 

[amaroo]

It is also totally irresponsible of the Foreign minister to make such an announcement with out the knowledge of the relatives of the deceased.

ABC AM reports that the family was informed but a decision (correct IMO) was made not to disclose to the public. This tosser goes on a chat show and gets quizzed about his OTT statement to the UN ... he then starts talking about oxygen masks to defend himself.

The ABC completed their report with a quote that the minister regrets talking about it - Tosser!

 

[OATEK]

Site search to resume: Ukrainian teams to resume MH17 crash site search: report

 

[whatmeworry]

Herald-Sun's message to Putin...

 

[moa999]

As classless as Abbott's shirtfront

 

[The Rok]

Is it just me or does anyone else get annoyed when radio and news presenters pronounce the flight number as MHOneSeven instead of MHSeventeen?