MEL Taxi Blockade [ short fare return queue jump ending ]

[medhead]

The passenger pays the Driver $2 for the privilege of being picked up from the airport; the taxi driver pays the Airport $1.32 of that.

So "nett" flagfall from the airport is $5.20 being the standard $3.20 + $2.00.

Add the $4.80 citylink fee and there's $10 and you are still putting your bags in the boot.

It is expensive. The citylink fee really annoys me as back in 1999, there was no citylink fee if you turned off at the yellow erections. They haven't substantially changed the road before that point, why in the world should there be a toll?

Also does the flag fall increase on weekends and at night? Even more expensive.

My comment about minimum fare was more to point out that there is already a minimum fare for those suggesting it's introduction. The flag fall is the compensation to taxis for being "available". So it factors in the cost of having a taxi sitting around waiting, across the whole industry. At least that's how Queensland taxi fares were set.

 

[anat0l]

My comment about minimum fare was more to point out that there is already a minimum fare for those suggesting it's introduction. The flag fall is the compensation to taxis for being "available". So it factors in the cost of having a taxi sitting around waiting, across the whole industry. At least that's how Queensland taxi fares were set.

There's a slight semantic differentiation between minimun fare and flagfall. Flagfall is simply the charge added to fares that all must pay. You pay it if you travel one metre, or one hundred thousand metres. Fare increases on top of flagfall as soon as you move.

A minimum fare would be something of a "whichever is greater" situation, i.e. count the fare as you normally do (including the flagfall), and if it doesn't exceed a certain amount then you pay the minimum fare. A minimum fare would be set much higher than the flagfall and would include an estimated travel of some distance. For example, it may be suggested that all taxi journeys from the airport are subject to a minimum $30 fare (including flagfall, tolls and fees).

 

[medhead]

There's a slight semantic differentiation between minimun fare and flagfall. Flagfall is simply the charge added to fares that all must pay. You pay it if you travel one metre, or one hundred thousand metres. Fare increases on top of flagfall as soon as you move.

A minimum fare would be something of a "whichever is greater" situation, i.e. count the fare as you normally do (including the flagfall), and if it doesn't exceed a certain amount then you pay the minimum fare. A minimum fare would be set much higher than the flagfall and would include an estimated travel of some distance. For example, it may be suggested that all taxi journeys from the airport are subject to a minimum $30 fare (including flagfall, tolls and fees).

You might see a semantic difference. However, there is not a practical difference. Minimum fare is being suggested as compensation for waiting at the airport. The fact is the flag fall already provides that compensation. It also provides compensation for a taxi sitting on a rank at 3am or 4am Tuesday morning waiting to take someone to the airport.

 

[anat0l]

You might see a semantic difference. However, there is not a practical difference. Minimum fare is being suggested as compensation for waiting at the airport. The fact is the flag fall already provides that compensation. It also provides compensation for a taxi sitting on a rank at 3am or 4am Tuesday morning waiting to take someone to the airport.

Depends on how much the minimum fare would be under a hypothetical system. It would need to be appreciably high enough such that it would exceed the current flagfall-provided "nominal minimum".

I don't know how much it costs to go from airport to "short jobs" in Melbourne, but let's say it's $25 for a typical "short job" from the airport (at $15-20 for the distance fare after taking out the flagfall and so on, that's not very far at all). Implementing a minimum fare of all jobs from the airport of $35 would mean a rider on this kind of "short job" pays an extra $10 that is not flagfall or even distance fare.

In Melbourne taxi parlance, I have no idea whether $25 is a fare which a driver at the airport would consider "small" (i.e. compared to the cost of having to race back and join the queue again, thereby wasting time)......

This obviously makes no difference to those who commute between airport and city, since unless the minimum fare was set to $50 (highly unlikely and unreasonable), you would always be up for more than that anyway.

Raising the flagfall from the airport or imposing any other or increased airport-related surcharge "eliminates" the need for minimum fare, as the gap closes the practicality of a minimum fare is decreased. Of course, an airport surcharge often is paid to the airport; the cost is simply passed at-face to the customer, and the taxi driver and company earns nothing out of it.


I remember some time ago that some taxi drivers were - illegally or what not - either tossing out customers who asked for a shorter job than say $15, or were asking for an upfront flat fare when the job was predicted to be shorter than that. I've been told many times (and this thread seems to confirm it) that taxi drivers are pretty annoyed if they have to shuttle you for a short job in Melbourne.

 

[medhead]

Depends on how much the minimum fare would be under a hypothetical system. It would need to be appreciably high enough such that it would exceed the current flagfall-provided "nominal minimum".

I don't know how much it costs to go from airport to "short jobs" in Melbourne, but let's say it's $25 for a typical "short job" from the airport (at $15-20 for the distance fare after taking out the flagfall and so on, that's not very far at all). Implementing a minimum fare of all jobs from the airport of $35 would mean a rider on this kind of "short job" pays an extra $10 that is not flagfall or even distance fare.

In Melbourne taxi parlance, I have no idea whether $25 is a fare which a driver at the airport would consider "small" (i.e. compared to the cost of having to race back and join the queue again, thereby wasting time)......

This obviously makes no difference to those who commute between airport and city, since unless the minimum fare was set to $50 (highly unlikely and unreasonable), you would always be up for more than that anyway.

Raising the flagfall from the airport or imposing any other or increased airport-related surcharge "eliminates" the need for minimum fare, as the gap closes the practicality of a minimum fare is decreased. Of course, an airport surcharge often is paid to the airport; the cost is simply passed at-face to the customer, and the taxi driver and company earns nothing out of it.


I remember some time ago that some taxi drivers were - illegally or what not - either tossing out customers who asked for a shorter job than say $15, or were asking for an upfront flat fare when the job was predicted to be shorter than that. I've been told many times (and this thread seems to confirm it) that taxi drivers are pretty annoyed if they have to shuttle you for a short job in Melbourne.

It depends on nothing. The flag fall is already calculated to compensate taxis for having to wait. Matters not if they wait at the airport or on Flinders st.

I really don't think anything more needs to be said. I certainly see no reason to pander to bad taxi drivers in Melbourne who have no idea how they make money. Who will also probably not last the distance in the industry as a result, anyway.

 

[UP4014]

I thought Sydney taxi drivers were bad, but then I got in a Melbourne taxi. :evil:

 

[whatmeworry]

IF you have issues with MEL cabbies, for example the driver has BO, the driver doesn't know how to get somewhere, their cab is dirty, they refuse your short fare... etc Either get their rego or even better their cabbie id number and report them.

I can say I should report more poor cabbies, but if we all report more we can rid of the bad ones.

 

[Skyring]

The flag fall is already calculated to compensate taxis for having to wait. Matters not if they wait at the airport or on Flinders st. I really don't think anything more needs to be said. I certainly see no reason to pander to bad taxi drivers in Melbourne who have no idea how they make money.

Flag fall has nothing to do with waiting time. It's to cover the fixed costs associated with any trip. There's a component in there for uniforms, for example. You want a cab and driver, fully equipped, cleaned, trained and serviced, the flagfall covers those expenses. In theory, at least. Some drivers skimp on the basics.

The rest of the fare covers the time of the driver, the cost of gas, the cost of regular servicing.

It also makes short trips more of an economic proposition. The driver knows they are going to get a minimum amount, so (in theory) they are not going to reject little old ladies only going a few blocks with their groceries. If a driver can get lots of short jobs, it works out to be hugely more profitable than a few long jobs with the same total distance. The flagfalls add up, making the rate per kilometre much much higher.

 

[Skyring]

IF you have issues with MEL cabbies, for example the driver has BO, the driver doesn't know how to get somewhere, their cab is dirty, they refuse your short fare... etc Either get their rego or even better their cabbie id number and report them.

Hear, hear! This is pretty much the only way to weed out the bad cabbies and raise standards. If there's no downside to bad behaviour, then it will be repeated.

Especially if it saves money or leads to increased profit.

 

[Skyring]

I remember some time ago that some taxi drivers were - illegally or what not - either tossing out customers who asked for a shorter job than say $15, or were asking for an upfront flat fare when the job was predicted to be shorter than that. I've been told many times (and this thread seems to confirm it) that taxi drivers are pretty annoyed if they have to shuttle you for a short job in Melbourne.

Exactly right. I saw this behaviour so many times and it always irritated me. For one thing, it was illegal. Second, the short fares are actually more profitable, if you can string them together. Third, the passenger often took the same short trip and would sometimes feel obliged to add a generous tip, especially if they got a nice clean cab and a driver who smiled rather than scowled.

I never complained at short trips. Each passenger had exactly the same need to get to their destination, whether it was round the corner or across town. That's why they got into a cab. From the passenger's point of view, they needed to get somewhere, they were prepared to pay the fare nd that was that. It wasn't up to the cabbie to determine their destination!

Besides, it's the luck of the draw. Some trips are long, some are short. That's the chance every cabbie takes. I found that it averaged out at the end of the day. Every shift was always different in where I'd be directed to go around the city, but when I was tallying up the total at three in the morning, it was usually pretty much the same every shift.

 

[JohnK]

In Melbourne taxi parlance, I have no idea whether $25 is a fare which a driver at the airport would consider "small" (i.e. compared to the cost of having to race back and join the queue again, thereby wasting time)......

This obviously makes no difference to those who commute between airport and city, since unless the minimum fare was set to $50 (highly unlikely and unreasonable), you would always be up for more than that anyway.

Funny part about this discussion is the definition of "short fare".

It takes me ~12-15 minutes to get to SYD domestic and the taxi fare would be ~$35-$40. In my mind there is nothing "short" about that fare. It is highway robbery and I am lucky I have alternatives.

 

[Skyring]

Also does the flag fall increase on weekends and at night? Even more expensive.

It makes for more of an incentive for the driver to work outside regular hours. Dunno about you, but about two in the morning, after an hour or so sitting on a deserted rank in a sleeping city, I'd begin to ponder what else I could be doing with my time.

That's pretty much why I got out of the game after five years as a night cabbie. It stopped being an efficient use of my time. Especially when my brother cabbies stole my fares and rorted the system.

 

[Skyring]

Funny part about this discussion is the definition of "short fare".

It takes me ~12-15 minutes to get to SYD domestic and the taxi fare would be ~$35-$40. In my mind there is nothing "short" about that fare. It is highway robbery and I am lucky I have alternatives.

From the cabbie's point of view, the short fares are the short ones. They generally don't think about the flagfall. Even less about airport fees and Cabcharge, none of which ends up in their pockets.

From the passenger's point of view, it all adds up, and they begin to wonder whether it is worth it. As a cabbie, I'd get passengers paying for rides that I wouldn't even begin to consider as a cost-effective means of transport.

Then again, I spent $195 on cab rides to and from JFK the past week. It would have been far cheaper to use almost any other method, but I didn't want to schlep three fairly bulky bags around, and I needed someone to find my stay. I've done my share of lugging multiple bags around a big city's public transport system at peak hour trying to read a map and deal with the ticket machines and the unfamiliar routes.

 

[medhead]

Flag fall has nothing to do with waiting time. It's to cover the fixed costs associated with any trip. There's a component in there for uniforms, for example. You want a cab and driver, fully equipped, cleaned, trained and serviced, the flagfall covers those expenses. In theory, at least. Some drivers skimp on the basics.

It also includes a component for having a taxi available at 2am on weekday morning, etc. That is having a taxi waiting to be available to take passengers. At least that is how it was calculated in Brisbane at some point of time in the past. If they do it in QLD I'd guess other states do the same.

It also makes short trips more of an economic proposition. The driver knows they are going to get a minimum amount, so (in theory) they are not going to reject little old ladies only going a few blocks with their groceries. If a driver can get lots of short jobs, it works out to be hugely more profitable than a few long jobs with the same total distance. The flagfalls add up, making the rate per kilometre much much higher.

Hence my comment about drivers rejecting short trips do not know how they make money.

It makes for more of an incentive for the driver to work outside regular hours. Dunno about you, but about two in the morning, after an hour or so sitting on a deserted rank in a sleeping city, I'd begin to ponder what else I could be doing with my time.

That's pretty much why I got out of the game after five years as a night cabbie. It stopped being an efficient use of my time. Especially when my brother cabbies stole my fares and rorted the system.

I never really had that problem as a weekend, part time driver. But everyone has a point were they go home and leave the next fare to someone who is more hungry. Although, 5:45 Sunday morning outside a night club praying to get the last drunk was always hard.

 

[greenfrog86]

My taxi driver yesterday (in his very comfortable Prius that he drove like it was a video game... We were honking everyone doing 99km on the freeway!) told me that there will be travel issues from 7am today.

He indicated another blockade at the airport - if you can get a can to take you, it seems likely you'll have issues once there.

I live in the inner city and always avoid cabs as they are seriously expensive, especially if you get stuck in traffic like I did last night. Instead of paying $75 in a cab ill either get a cab to Southern Cross and then the skybus (combined this is less than $40 and skybus always find the quickest route), or if traveling at peak hours and think it might be an expensive cab ride I'll book a VHA car for $80. On time, comfortable and reliable...

 

[QF029]

I'm flying out of MEL this afternoon. I assume the blockade will be over by then but any feedback from people passing through would be appreciated.

 

[drewbles]

From the cabbie's point of view, the short fares are the short ones. They generally don't think about the flagfall. Even less about airport fees and Cabcharge, none of which ends up in their pockets.

From the passenger's point of view, it all adds up, and they begin to wonder whether it is worth it. As a cabbie, I'd get passengers paying for rides that I wouldn't even begin to consider as a cost-effective means of transport.

Then again, I spent $195 on cab rides to and from JFK the past week. It would have been far cheaper to use almost any other method, but I didn't want to schlep three fairly bulky bags around, and I needed someone to find my stay. I've done my share of lugging multiple bags around a big city's public transport system at peak hour trying to read a map and deal with the ticket machines and the unfamiliar routes.

Slightly O/T, but next time you're in NYC, use Dial 7 instead of a taxi; fixed cost, and much much better (just tell them to take the non-tolled way and there's no tolls, and an abundance of online 10% off or so vouchers).

 

[drewbles]

My taxi driver yesterday (in his very comfortable Prius that he drove like it was a video game... We were honking everyone doing 99km on the freeway!) told me that there will be travel issues from 7am today.

He indicated another blockade at the airport - if you can get a can to take you, it seems likely you'll have issues once there.

I live in the inner city and always avoid cabs as they are seriously expensive, especially if you get stuck in traffic like I did last night. Instead of paying $75 in a cab ill either get a cab to Southern Cross and then the skybus (combined this is less than $40 and skybus always find the quickest route), or if traveling at peak hours and think it might be an expensive cab ride I'll book a VHA car for $80. On time, comfortable and reliable...

I'm in a similar situation (although moving just a tad to the north of the CBD in a few days). I typically park at an off-site airport parking joint. Park 5 times or more in 6 months and they knock 20% off their already low rates (well, they're a bargain compared to Melbourne Airport Long Term).

Of course not everyone can/wants to drive, but when I can do 2 weeks away for around $105, I'd rather do that and drive home, even after a flight home from LHR.

 

[whatmeworry]

Looks a smaller crowd was protesting today.

Melbourne Airport blockade as queue spat drags on | Taxi

Taxi Driver Forum spokesman Ali Abou-eid said he received the message on Sunday night. He said the blockade appeared to be organised by a small group of angry drivers and that drivers were mostly self employed.
"We have no control over them," Mr Abou-eid said.
He said drivers earned about $8 an hour.
"If they wait in a queue for two hours only to get a fare to Broadmeadows, which is only $14 or $15, they are only making $2.50 an hour – that is not acceptable," Mr Abou-eid said.

 

[anat0l]

It takes me ~12-15 minutes to get to SYD domestic and the taxi fare would be ~$35-$40. In my mind there is nothing "short" about that fare. It is highway robbery and I am lucky I have alternatives.

Be that as it may, sometimes it's better to cough up that kind of money than risk forfeiting a flight.

I think for me that's the main thing: taxis are a convenience and time saver at certain times. If a taxi will not be more effective time wise than public transport, then I'm not going to take a taxi, unless someone else is footing the bill (and even then). But, there are some people who treat taxis as a form of their transportation needs and who will willingly pay for it. I know there are certainly some on this forum who will refuse to ride a bus let alone a train, so apart from driving themselves it can only be taxis (or car pooling / rides from friends or family).

At a minimum, if you have to ride in a cab anyway, then for the price one is being charged you'd hope for a competent one!



Back on topic, I wonder if the other airports (particularly SYD or BNE) have any similar kind of bypass system or not? From BNE, I suspect the answer is no......