MH 777 missing - MH370 media statement

[markis10]

Today's SMH has some more info on why the ocean being searched is pretty much free of debris as was being discussed earlier:

University of Western Sydney oceanographer Charitha Pattiaratchi said the area where the images were captured and where wooden pallets and straps were seen was outside normal shipping lanes and distant from circular currents in which waste often accumulated.
''Usually things that have been in the ocean for a long time are either under the surface or sink or break down into much smaller pieces,'' Professor Pattiaratchi said.
''To see a large object like that, then certainly it is credible [it is wreckage]. It is extremely unusual.
''Each of the oceans has what's called a big gyre [circular current] and usually any debris goes around this gyre and sometimes they accumulate in the centre, but the search area is thousands of kilometres from the region and we are in a different system.
''The southern Indian ocean is an area which is relatively free of debris.''
Finding the objects should be a priority as technology could then be used to determine how currents had moved the objects during the past two weeks, Dr Beaman said.

Read more: Objects in images could be crash debris, say oceanographers

 

[Mal]

Today's SMH has some more info on why the ocean being searched is pretty much free of debris as was being discussed earlier:






Read more: Objects in images could be crash debris, say oceanographers

Well we will see. 'Experts' are crawling out of every crevice and spouting their views.

 

[Skyring]

Well we will see. 'Experts' are crawling out of every crevice and spouting their views.

Indeed.

However there's very few of them who can come up with a theory that withstands scrutiny. I've been following the discussion on PPRuNe and the wacky ideas usually get snorts of derision, the remotely plausible are shot down easily, and the things that sound perfectly reasonable to me are demolished by technical knowledge from those who know what they are talking about.

Also bear in mind that media agencies aren't investigating authorities or courts of law so much as entertainers, and someone who knows their stuff but talks in jargon is useless without an interpreter to inform the wider public. Some of the radar and electronics stuff is all but incomprehensible to the average person.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not wanting to diminish the value of 239 lives lost, nor the importance of finding the aircraft to give closure to relatives and find out what went wrong to prevent future loss of life, but it's easy to get caught up in the media frenzy around the disappearance. To put it into context, in the time since the disappearance of MH370 it's likely that around 280 people have lost their lives in traffic accidents in Malaysia. Important to remember amongst all the hype, that it isn't the only dangerous activity that we face when we travel.

It's a good point. I just googled the road toll in the USA and it stood at 34,000+ for 2012 - or 93 a day (a slight increase from previous years). And that doesn't include serious injury which would a lot more.

however - road death is something we know about and it generally comes down to the driver(s) involved. The tragedy of road death are those who are 'innocent' - run into by a car going through a red light or similar.

but aircraft loss if different. It is not accepted to have risks the same way car travel has. We don't expect there to be hoon drivers, or drug and alcohol affected drivers, or 18 year olds at the controls of the plane who lack experience. We don't expect planes to be ill maintained. And as a legacy to those who lost their lives we learn and prevent the same thing happening again.

the other interest of course is from the airline manufacturers. No one will want to fly on an aircraft type of it falls out of the sky and we don't know why.

 

[prozac]

.............................................
the other interest of course is from the airline manufacturers. No one will want to fly on an aircraft type of it falls out of the sky and we don't know why.

I would think of greater concern would be how the government of a nation responds to such an emergency when it happens. Happy to fly Boeing but now a little concerned about how the Malaysians handle crisis.

I know their initial response of casting doubt on the pilot and copilot, who's actions may have been heroic in the circumstances, did not leave a nice taste.

 

[SFSC]

I suppose we may never hear about it but I would have expected that some submarine asset with a huge towed passive sonar array (the sort of thing that can detect flathead flatulence at 10km) would be tasked to the area by now.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

It's a good point. I just googled the road toll in the USA and it stood at 34,000+ for 2012 - or 93 a day (a slight increase from previous years). And that doesn't include serious injury which would a lot more.

however - road death is something we know about and it generally comes down to the driver(s) involved. The tragedy of road death are those who are 'innocent' - run into by a car going through a red light or similar.

but aircraft loss if different. It is not accepted to have risks the same way car travel has. We don't expect there to be hoon drivers, or drug and alcohol affected drivers, or 18 year olds at the controls of the plane who lack experience. We don't expect planes to be ill maintained. And as a legacy to those who lost their lives we learn and prevent the same thing happening again.

the other interest of course is from the airline manufacturers. No one will want to fly on an aircraft type of it falls out of the sky and we don't know why.

As someone who is active in road-safety, some simple changes can make major differences, but the general public, and even people in authority, is lethargic about them. In many countries road safety is appalling. In ALL countries it is less than it should easily be. Australia has made dramatic improvements over the last few decades though.

It is not just about those that run red-lights, and drunks and the like either. Many people die, or injured due to poor design and/or maintenance of roads or vehicles......and from just sheer ignorance of the consequences that 0.5mv2 has when human error occurs at higher speeds, as many drivers do not factor in margins of error into how they drive.

The public expect higher standards in aircraft travel, and to some degree it is warranted as one cannot say pull over and park a plane mid-flight if there is an issue. However the acceptance of poor road safety just shows the ways that humans are completely illogical in how they act, and what is deemed acceptable.

RANT OVER...

 

[Robbi]

I suppose we may never hear about it but I would have expected that some submarine asset with a huge towed passive sonar array (the sort of thing that can detect flathead flatulence at 10km) would be tasked to the area by now.

I'd be hoping RN, RAN, USN and russkies would have said assets in area. But we'll not know unless they tell us. And they won't tell us unless they find something.

But I guess it's a dud place to routinely have a boat for everyone except RAN.

 

[Warks]

Following the OT line - it amazes me the road toll in Australia isn't higher when you see the casual disregard so many people (especially pedestrians) have for their own safety. Not to mention awful drivers. My feeling is that the good drivers are avoiding potential accidents and keeping the toll down perhaps.

But back on the subject - in all this time there hasn't been a single confirmed trace of MH370 yet. It is rather daunting.

 

[markis10]

AMSA update - http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/documents/24032014MediaUpdate13MH370.pdf

10 aircraft today, weather to get poor, Chinese on way and should be on task close to sunrise.

 

[markis10]

Ten aircraft are involved in today’s search for Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 and will be split across two search areas.

Two Chinese military aircraft departed about 8.45am and 9.20am respectively.
A RAAF P3 Orion departed for the search area just after 9am.
Two ultra-long range civil jets departed about 10.10am and 10.30am respectively. A second RAAF P3 Orion is scheduled to depart about 11am.
A third ultra-long range jet is scheduled to depart about midday.
A US Navy P8 Poseidon aircraft is scheduled to depart about 1pm. The two Japanese P3 Orion aircraft are scheduled to depart after 4pm

All times are AEDST or UTC+11

 

[markis10]

7News Brisbane ‏@7NewsBrisbane 3m
The crew of a Chinese plane searching for the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 has spotted "suspicious objects" in the Indian Ocean

 

[drron]

White and rectangular items-
Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: Chinese find debris

 

[DC3]

... But I guess it's a dud place to routinely have a boat for everyone except RAN.

It may also be a dud place for the RAN to have a ship routinely located as well. That's probably a luxury that they cannot afford these days. No RAN warships have gone there as yet in relation to this search, just a supply ship, although it's capable of carrying 1 x helicopter.

 

[DrA]

In case anyone in Perth is interested...

Tomorrow Vice Admiral Ray Griggs AO CSC from the Royal Australian Navy will be giving a lecture at UWA on the Role of the Royal Australian Navy in the Indian Ocean.

I suspect the scope of the talk will be more general than the current situation with MH370, but given the timing I'm sure that Australia's search efforts will be addressed. And it might be a good place to find out what our capabilities are, not only in terms of the current search, but possible future retrieval efforts.

Details:
Tue, 25 Mar 2014 11:00 - UWA Dolphin Lecture Theatre
Attendance is free, but registration is essential: Register Here

 

[amaroo]

Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: Chinese find debris

 

[markis10]

In case anyone in Perth is interested...

Tomorrow Vice Admiral Ray Griggs AO CSC from the Royal Australian Navy will be giving a lecture at UWA on the Role of the Royal Australian Navy in the Indian Ocean.

I suspect the scope of the talk will be more general than the current situation with MH370, but given the timing I'm sure that Australia's search efforts will be addressed. And it might be a good place to find out what our capabilities are, not only in terms of the current search, but possible future retrieval efforts.

Details:
Tue, 25 Mar 2014 11:00 - UWA Dolphin Lecture Theatre
Attendance is free, but registration is essential: Register Here

That would be an interesting talk! I suspect the capabilities we have at present in terms of real war ships are just the Frigates, 4 FFGs and 8 FFH's, of which at least two are in the middle east. I would expect that once we have confirmation, Ocean Shield will be tasked to the recovery and or her sister ship Ocean Protector, both of which are ideal for the work given their Antarctic capabilities. Ocean Shield is off Sale, while Ocean Protector is currently in Indonesian Waters near Jakarta.

The US must think we are close, sending the black box detector with its towed array.

 

[Mal]

In case anyone in Perth is interested...

Tomorrow Vice Admiral Ray Griggs AO CSC from the Royal Australian Navy will be giving a lecture at UWA on the Role of the Royal Australian Navy in the Indian Ocean.

I suspect the scope of the talk will be more general than the current situation with MH370, but given the timing I'm sure that Australia's search efforts will be addressed. And it might be a good place to find out what our capabilities are, not only in terms of the current search, but possible future retrieval efforts.

Details:
Tue, 25 Mar 2014 11:00 - UWA Dolphin Lecture Theatre
Attendance is free, but registration is essential: Register Here

I don't want the Australian ( or any govt) involves in the retrieval. Once the location is determined, it is up to MH and their insurers to foot the bill for any recovery effort.

Search and rescue vs salvage are vastly different things.

 

[DrA]

I don't want the Australian ( or any govt) involves in the retrieval. Once the location is determined, it is up to MH and their insurers to foot the bill for any recovery effort.

Search and rescue vs salvage are vastly different things.

Is that legally the case, or just your preference? If the location is found to be in Australian waters, is there legally any obligation on Australia to assist with the recovery effort? Genuinely don't know, so simply asking the question.

 

[markis10]

AMSA have reported the debris were sighted after the Chinese had left station and were returning to Perth at altitude. The P8 has been diverted to the area and has been unable to relocate them.

I would not be surprised if we see C130s involved tomorrow.