MH 777 missing - MH370 media statement

[tgh]

Depends on whether its a Search and Rescue or a salvage operation. SAR costs fall to the SAR region, while salvage is borne by the owner.
I did make the point earlier that its up to the country to present the bill for their costs, which is uncommon, most work on the principal of what goes around comes around.

from another sauce..er source .. ahem .. :mrgreen:

Mate of mine delivers fuel to Pearce base.
He's been delivering an extra one million litres per day since the search for Malaysia MH began.
Chinese and American (37000 litres per fill) are being fuelled on the taxpayer.
I have no problem with that, but the stats might make a bit of background for any Journos you know reporting on the search.
Just gives some insight into the genuine scope to the search effort.
A million litres. Bet that wouldn't sit well with Earth Hour believers.

 

[markis10]

from another sauce..er source .. ahem .. :mrgreen:

Mate of mine delivers fuel to Pearce base.
He's been delivering an extra one million litres per day since the search for Malaysia MH began.
Chinese and American (37000 litres per fill) are being fuelled on the taxpayer.
I have no problem with that, but the stats might make a bit of background for any Journos you know reporting on the search.
Just gives some insight into the genuine scope to the search effort.
A million litres. Bet that wouldn't sit well with Earth Hour believers.

Pretty easy to put that one to bed if you look at the numbers quoted, they dont add up

 

[prozac]

That suggests 27 flights a day (at 37,000L)...

 

[markis10]

That suggests 27 flights a day (at 37,000L)...

Considering not all the aircraft are at Pearce, with the IL76s and P8 at PER! The 4Million litre fuel farm at Pearce must be overflowing with Avtur.

 

[prozac]

Considering not all the aircraft are at Pearce, with the IL76s and P8 at PER! The 4Million litre fuel farm at Pearce must be overflowing with Avtur.

Someone must be siphoning some off for their ute.

 

[tgh]

sigh ..it was just a cut and past from a populist media site..
light entertainment while we wait for real news
the numbers were probably massaged to look impressive..
fooled me …
snap….
messenger is shot

 

[SeatBackForward]

Well I'm sure they can ask it to do all that, but surely if it is an "autonomous" underwater vehicle it will just do whatever it feels like doing.

Good foresight!

After 6hrs the bluefin has decided the waters too deep and has re-surfaced.

Also, apparently an oil slick has been detected. But like so many facets of MH370 this doesn't appear logical if the plane was ditched after running out of fuel..

 

[Plutonus]

Potential stupid question: wouldn't a plane still have a large amount of oil for all its components (aside from fuel)?

 

[markis10]

Good foresight!

After 6hrs the bluefin has decided the waters too deep and has re-surfaced.

Also, apparently an oil slick has been detected. But like so many facets of MH370 this doesn't appear logical if the plane was ditched after running out of fuel..

Run out of fuel does not mean no fuel, there will always be dregs left.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Run out of fuel does not mean no fuel, there will always be dregs left.

But for an oil slick to rise from 4000m+ to the surface is going to need more than dregs..

There's some interesting questions over on pprune - the area they are searching is trafficked by freight vessels, would be interesting to know if any where in the area at the time.
And it must nearing the point where the aerial searches are suspended.

 

[markis10]

But for an oil slick to rise from 4000m+ to the surface is going to need more than dregs...

Dregs in this context could be 100s of Litres, and who said it rose from the depths, very likely the wing broke on impact which of course is where the fuel is.

Having said that, I would be surprised if its from the aircraft given the specific gravity of A1 and the likelihood of it dispersing versus marine diesel.

 

[defurax]

Dregs in this context could be 100s of Litres, and who said it rose from the depths, very likely the wing broke on impact which of course is where the fuel is.

Having said that, I would be surprised if its from the aircraft given the specific gravity of A1 and the likelihood of it dispersing versus marine diesel.

The immiscibility of kerosene (or other aliphatic chain hydrocarbons) in water is not simply dependent on specific gravity.

 

[markis10]

The immiscibility of kerosene (or other aliphatic chain hydrocarbons) in water is not simply dependent on specific gravity.

I was thinking it would evaporate quite easily into Co2 and H2O.

 

[defurax]

I was thinking it would evaporate quite easily into Co2 and H2O.

I don't know the surface tension values on top of my head, but after 5 weeks on a windy ocean surface I would imagine evaporation would have eliminated most of it. I guess more viscous fluids (e.g hydraulic fluids) could stay on the ocean surface for longer periods of time.

Evaporation would not lead to CO2 and H2O.

 

[NM]

The immiscibility of kerosene (or other aliphatic chain hydrocarbons) in water is not simply dependent on specific gravity.

But there would also be some hydraulic fluid on board, Jet-A1 is not the only lighter-than-water liquid on an aircraft.

 

[QF WP]

I continue to think of the similarities between MH370 and SA295:

South African Airways Flight 295 (flown by a Boeing 747 named Helderberg) was a commercial flight that suffered a catastrophic in-flight fire in the cargo area and crashed into the Indian Ocean east of Mauritius on 28 November 1987, killing everyone on board.[2][3] An extensive salvage operation was mounted in order to try to recover the flight data recorders, one of which was recovered from a depth of 4,900 metres (16,100 ft)—the deepest successful salvage operation ever conducted

But they found the Helderberg because they knew where to look a lot sooner and it was a hell of a lot closer to land.

The South Africans mounted an underwater search, named Operation Resolve, to try to locate the wreckage. The pingers attached to the flight data recorders were not designed for deep ocean use; nevertheless, a two-month-long sonar search for the pingers was carried out before the effort was abandoned on 8 January 1988 when the pingers were known to have stopped transmitting.[14] Steadfast Oceaneering, a specialist deep ocean recovery company in the USA, was contracted at great expense to find the site and recover the coughpit voice recorder and flight data recorder.[16] The search area is described as being comparable in size to that of the RMS Titanic, with the water at 5,000 metres (16,000 ft) being considerably deeper than any previously successful salvage operation.[17] The wreckage was found within two days of the sonar search of the area commencing.[17]


On 6 January 1989, the coughpit voice recorder was salvaged successfully from a record depth of 4,900 metres (16,100 ft) by the remotely operated vehicle (ROV) Gemini,[19] but the flight data recorder was never found.[15]

Let's hope it doesn't take 14 months to find MH370

 

[JohnK]

If they ever find it.

At what point do you abandon the search?

 

[Robbi]

Potential stupid question: wouldn't a plane still have a large amount of oil for all its components (aside from fuel)?

Hydraulic fluid?

 

[Robbi]

I was thinking it would evaporate quite easily into Co2 and H2O.

Not without combustion or bacteria to oxidise it into those products; It won't just evaporate into different chemical compounds. Some lighter components could volatilise if the conditions were right.

Most likely the bulk would emulsify, disperse and then gradually breakdown.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

If they ever find it.

At what point do you abandon the search?

Not till the Abyss submarines have looked..

Submarine prepares to join hunt for flight MH370 - The Local

Peter Herzig, director of the Helmholtz Institute, said: “We have already agreed to launch a joint search with our American colleagues. With Sonar from three submarines we will be able to search a much bigger area."
But their deployment will depend on wreckage from the Malaysia Airlines flight, which disappeared on March 8th with 239 people on board, being spotted on the ocean surface.
The submarines can then dive deep underwater to look for wreckage - and are operational at depths of between 3,000 and 6,000 metres.
The Abyss submarines were used in 2011 to find wreckage of Air France flight 447 which disappeared in 2009 with 228 passengers on board.