MH 777 missing - MH370 media statement

[RooFlyer]

Basil Fawlty is at it again (tragically):

Missing Malaysia Airlines jet: Kuala Lumpur backtracks on when airliner's communications were cut

 

[medhead]

That's nothing more than a media beat up. It actually makes no difference. The last communication was at a certain time. True. The next expected signal did not happen. Technically the system could have been switched off any time between the last communications and the expected one that didn't arrive. Also true.

But so what? Unless your a reporter looking to fill column inches. Seriously try understanding a story before jumping into a preconceived load of BS.

 

[OATEK]

Basil Fawlty is at it again (tragically):

Missing Malaysia Airlines jet: Kuala Lumpur backtracks on when airliner's communications were cut

It is tragic that we are still unable well over a week later to provide an agreed timeline of when the ACARS was turned off, when the last voice message was received and when the transponder was turned off. So much speculation hung on the ACARS being off when the casual "good night" came through, and now it might in fact be quite the opposite.

 

[jb747]

Would some real pilots comment on the level of 'significant training' required to be able to fly close to another plane in the dark with no transponder in a commercial big jet to avoid radar detection ?

As a layman, this is getting unreal.

I doubt if you could do this just from the simulator.

Night formation. Day formation is hard enough. I doubt that you could learn it from a sim. You'd need to be close enough to be heard by the other aircraft (if they knew to listen for it). Not a few thousand feet below...perhaps within 100'. Doubly fun in any cloud.

 

[jb747]

Would primary radars show one or two blips ?

It would depend upon the radar, and the proximity of the two aircraft. Long range radars would show one, though it might be bigger than usual. High definition radars (i.e. military fire control) would have more chance to discriminate, but that sort of radar isn't normally pointed at airliners.

What would be the minimal separation distance for two 777s to appear as one radar blip ?

The closer the better. No fixed answer, as it would vary with the radar and its range. If I were trying to do this, I'd be within 100'. Of course just how an airline pilot with no military formation training would manage to actually join up at night would be interesting to say the least. A rejoin is not a simple or safe exercise.

Is that a safe flying distance ?

Not even a little bit...and remember there are other aircraft around, headed in the opposite direction.....

 

[Anna]

Is that a safe flying distance ?

That might not have been uppermost in whoever's mind at the time, regrettably (assuming for a moment that the shadowing hypothesis has some credibility).

I'm a tiny weensy nano-particle sized bit relieved that there is some trace of the aircraft's movements. I found it impossible to believe what was being said last week that it just disappeared without any trace at all.

Please find something tangible soon, for the sake of the families.

 

[medhead]

It is tragic that we are still unable well over a week later to provide an agreed timeline of when the ACARS was turned off, when the last voice message was received and when the transponder was turned off. So much speculation hung on the ACARS being off when the casual "good night" came through, and now it might in fact be quite the opposite.

There is an agreed timeline. That story is just the media making something out of nothing. In reality, considering all the other evidence, the timing of the last voice call vs switching off acars is relatively insignificant.

 

[prozac]

I think this is all on the premise that our Malaysian pilot did the flying to some other destination. My thoughts are that to avoid detection then someone else was flying or at least advising how and where.

 

[markis10]

I wonder if the screening machines are logged/taped, as in having the ability to go back and see what was in the carryon. One of the benefits of KL and Singapore in that respect is its gate based so it would narrow down the amount of data each machine spits out.

 

[medhead]

I think this is all on the premise that our Malaysian pilot did the flying to some other destination. My thoughts are that to avoid detection then someone else was flying or at least advising how and where.

But the other evidence, waypoints, comms being switched and etc, tell us that someone with significant knowledge was flying the aircraft. They have the passenger manifest and should be able to determine if there was anyone else besides the pilots with significant flying ability. Apparently they have the voice recording of the final message and are analyzing it for signs of stress. So knowing the precise timing is going to provide a minor extra clue that is of minor assistance to finding the aircraft, given the information they already know.

Not to mention they can't possibly know the exact timing until they find the aircraft. The thing transmitted but then didn't transmit as expected 30 minutes later. Exactly how can they determine when it was turned off without the aircraft? Media beat up.

 

[burmans]

Unless your a reporter looking to fill column inches. Seriously try understanding a story before jumping into a preconceived load of BS.

Welcome to the world of reporting in the current century, particularly in some media outlets. And to think journalism was once regarded as a noble career.

 

[jb747]

But the other evidence, waypoints, comms being switched and etc, tell us that someone with significant knowledge was flying the aircraft. They have the passenger manifest and should be able to determine if there was anyone else besides the pilots with significant flying ability. Apparently they have the voice recording of the final message and are analyzing it for signs of stress. So knowing the precise timing is going to provide a minor extra clue that is of minor assistance to finding the aircraft, given the information they already know.

Not to mention they can't possibly know the exact timing until they find the aircraft. The thing transmitted but then didn't transmit as expected 30 minutes later. Exactly how can they determine when it was turned off without the aircraft? Media beat up.

Yes, but how solid are these radar paints? Were they actually tracking something, or are these just occasional paints that are being made to fit a notion. Did the aircraft actually go to the waypoints, or just in the vicinity of them. There are a LOT of waypoints in the area.

 

[Mal]

My 'favourite' current rumour is that the plane held £160k of cash in transit and was taken purely for the cash.
Wake me up when the alien theory gains more credibility

 

[Anna]

Yes, but how solid are these radar paints? Were they actually tracking something, or are these just occasional paints that are being made to fit a notion. Did the aircraft actually go to the waypoints, or just in the vicinity of them. There are a LOT of waypoints in the area.

Does that give rise to the possibility that the aircraft actually was flying in a straight line but was picked up on a few different waypoints making it look like it was flying in a crooked line?

(Please nobody accuse me of saying it was flying in a straight line. I'm not. I'm asking a question).

 

[prozac]

But the other evidence, waypoints, comms being switched and etc, tell us that someone with significant knowledge was flying the aircraft. They have the passenger manifest and should be able to determine if there was anyone else besides the pilots with significant flying ability. Apparently they have the voice recording of the final message and are analyzing it for signs of stress. So knowing the precise timing is going to provide a minor extra clue that is of minor assistance to finding the aircraft, given the information they already know.
..................................................

I agree medhead and I would like to think if this was the case they have the intelligence to dredge up that info. But that assumes we are taking about someone who was a career pilot or who is traveling on a real passport. What if the passenger pilot had all flight training under a false name? Much simpler of-course to have a highly skilled pilot traveling with a fake passport.

 

[PLANT]

So we are at the point of:

1. Fat Tony of the Under Belly series knows where it is.

2. Tom Cruise\Jame Bond\xx_ or Agents of Shield have the plane

3. Area 57 in India

I'm still searching Google Play for the App location.....

Have they tried "FIND MY PHONE" on the passengers?????

 

[prozac]

Have they tried "FIND MY PHONE" on the passengers?????

We have the pilot's email.

 

[medhead]

Yes, but how solid are these radar paints? Were they actually tracking something, or are these just occasional paints that are being made to fit a notion. Did the aircraft actually go to the waypoints, or just in the vicinity of them. There are a LOT of waypoints in the area.

Obviously I don't know the answer to those questions. They are also very important questions. Just saying that knowing the precise timing of the call and when systems were turned off will not answer the questions you've raised.

I agree medhead and I would like to think if this was the case they have the intelligence to dredge up that info. But that assumes we are taking about someone who was a career pilot or who is traveling on a real passport. What if the passenger pilot had all flight training under a false name? Much simpler of-course to have a highly skilled pilot traveling with a fake passport.

Also important questions not answered by knowledge of the timing in question. I have my own thoughts about the passport questions but I won't add to the speculation.

My 'favourite' current rumour is that the plane held £160k of cash in transit and was taken purely for the cash.
Wake me up when the alien theory gains more credibility

That's funny! They could possibly strip the aircraft for parts and get more money. Every sell it as scrap metal might get more cash.

Speculation= I do wonder if a country that has been subject to extended sanctions might benefit from parts of a new aircraft for their aging fleet.

 

[tgh]

I wonder if the nerve centre discussions reflect the same air of mystery and intrigue as the web sites.
One can only hope that they know a lot more than they are telling.

It's all getting a bit boring.. we need some more sensational discoveries to titillate our typing fingers

 

[Boris spatsky]

Would some real pilots comment on the level of 'significant training' required to be able to fly close to another plane in the dark with no transponder in a commercial big jet to avoid radar detection ?

As a layman, this is getting unreal.

I doubt if you could do this just from the simulator.

Thanks legroom. I did comment as a 'real pilot' as you requested. I have flown formation in large aircraft and it is extremely challenging by night - you need external references (lights or the moon) to do it visually. But it is plausible if 1) the aircraft you are following is just flying straight and level and 2) the moon is up (the moon was up that night but i have not checked what time it set or whether it was full)