Narrow seats on QF B789

[Quickstatus]

Then why even bother making a comparison????

It's like me saying my lounge chair is more comfortable than the F seats.. it's a pointless comparison

To the contrary,

I think it is quite insightful to compare seating between modes of transport. Most of us have sat in a seats on different modes of transport so the comparison is valid because it based one of experiences.

Those of us who ride on public transport know that the seats on such trains and buses are very narrow. It would be an interesting comparison between a Sydney public bus and the 787 Y seat.

 

[harvyk]

IMHO, WRONG!! The single most important thing to pax is price. I dare anyone to contest that. And an 8 across layout would up the price.

I'll contest that, there are 3 distinct types of purchasers and only 1 purchases products based on price - the budget crowd. The value shopper will include price as a factor, but they will also include other things like service, and of course at the top end you have the luxury shopper, where a high price can be as much a badge of honour.

 

[Quickstatus]

I'll contest that, there are 3 distinct types of purchasers and only 1 purchases products based on price - the budget crowd. The value shopper will include price as a factor, but they will also include other things like service, and of course at the top end you have the luxury shopper, where a high price can be as much a badge of honour.

Factoring in an intangible such as "service" can be difficult given the variability in quality and expectation .The only way this can be of significance in a value judgement is personal experience. A bad experience has more influence than a good experience. Unfortunately good service is of no benefit if the passenger's expectations are not being addressed or met.

 

[nlagalle]

To the contrary,

I think it is quite insightful to compare seating between modes of transport. Most of us have sat in a seats on different modes of transport so the comparison is valid because it based one of experiences.

Those of us who ride on public transport know that the seats on such trains and buses are very narrow. It would be an interesting comparison between a Sydney public bus and the 787 Y seat.

For a start the referral was to long haul train rides (read the context of the post). Secondly have you seen the seat? I was there on Thursday and I'd rather sit in the Y seat than on a regular PT train seat.

 

[Melburnian1]

Then why even bother making a comparison????

It's like me saying my lounge chair is more comfortable than the F seats.. it's a pointless comparison

As Quickstatus said, comparisons between modes can have validity, even if there are bound to be differences. The airlines can at times learn things from other modes, and vice versa.

What I was really alluding to was how QF would have a party and feature its 'new' economy seats.

Apart from the insertion of 'device' power and perhaps with some airlines marginal increases in the size of in flight entertainment seatback screens, it doesn't strike me that there have been many advances in economy class airline seats during the past decade.

There have even been some moves 'backwards', such as less comfortable seats, ridiculous seats on some airlines that slide forward rather than the back reclining a bit more, lesser seat pitches or narrower seat width, nine-across instead of what particular aircraft were designed for as eight-across in seating configuration.

QF is not the only airline that has done some or all of the latter - but I was just expressing my surprise that a party would feature something that arguably has not advanced in terms of passenger comfort. We, the passengers, may be partly to blame as the 'budget end' of the market referred to above demands fares that become cheaper and cheaper in real terms.

 

[nlagalle]

As Quickstatus said, comparisons between modes can have validity, even if there are bound to be differences. The airlines can at times learn things from other modes, and vice versa.

What I was really alluding to was how QF would have a party and feature its 'new' economy seats.

Apart from the insertion of 'device' power and perhaps with some airlines marginal increases in the size of in flight entertainment seatback screens, it doesn't strike me that there have been many advances in economy class airline seats during the past decade.

There have even been some moves 'backwards', such as less comfortable seats, ridiculous seats on some airlines that slide forward rather than the back reclining a bit more, lesser seat pitches or narrower seat width, nine-across instead of what particular aircraft were designed for as eight-across in seating configuration.

QF is not the only airline that has done some or all of the latter - but I was just expressing my surprise that a party would feature something that arguably has not advanced in terms of passenger comfort. We, the passengers, may be partly to blame as the 'budget end' of the market referred to above demands fares that become cheaper and cheaper in real terms.

So you think there has been no advancement in the materials used? Construction of the seats to minimize weight? The fact materials must meet guidelines for combustion etc?

20 years ago we still had audio via those air headsets, overhead projectors.. now we cry if there is no PIFE in our seats.

I'm struggling to think where there hasn't been innovation? Seats themselves are slimmer due to better materials used. Reduces weight which allows things like PIFE screens etc. better electronics allow us to have inseat power too..

And again, have you sat in the new seats? Do you know that they aren't any good? Did you know the launch wasn't about the Y seats? It just happened to include them.

 

[Quickstatus]

There have been innovation of course, however most of it's benefits have been embellished by the hype of marketing. In the end passengers won't care that their cramped seat is made out of space aged materials or designed by some uber industrial designer who will probably not have to travel in it.

Im sure many people who went to the event have test sat in it?
But Im also sure no one tested it with a passenger on either side and with the seat in front of you reclined and sat in it for 15 hours?.

Thinner seat = harder irrespective of what space aged material is used.
And oh let's not mention that VA has a wider seat with same pitch.

I agree that the event was not about the Y seats. The whole theme of the event was "New era same spirit".
The feature was a A330 with new paintwork
In other words:They changed the Font!. AKA changing the letterhead and making a big song and dance about it.
We know the "spirit" didn't change because they increased the luggage charges the next day.

 

[Melburnian1]

We know the "spirit" didn't change because they increased the luggage charges the next day.

That's the true 2016 'Sprit of Australia': increasing 'hidden' ('ancillary') fees and charges in the hope that they'll get away with it.

Thinner seats on planes have been most unpopular. From memory CX was one airline that copped much backlash, although that was also about how some seats slid forwards, an innovation promoted by the airline but one that found no favour with passengers.

How many of the attendees at this QF party actually ever travel economy class and have the seat next to them occupied?

If I was QF I would have just featured their higher class seats - or just the new livery.

 

[twinaisle]

There have been innovation of course, however most of it's benefits have been embellished by the hype of marketing. In the end passengers won't care that their cramped seat is made out of space aged materials or designed by some uber industrial designer who will probably not have to travel in it.

Im sure many people who went to the event have test sat in it?
But Im also sure no one tested it with a passenger on either side and with the seat in front of you reclined and sat in it for 15 hours?.

Thinner seat = harder irrespective of what space aged material is used.
And oh let's not mention that VA has a wider seat with same pitch.

I agree that the event was not about the Y seats. The whole theme of the event was "New era same spirit".
The feature was a A330 with new paintwork
In other words:They changed the Font!. AKA changing the letterhead and making a big song and dance about it.
We know the "spirit" didn't change because they increased the luggage charges the next day.

So you're comparing a 787 smaller fuselage width to a 777 with a larger width? Let's be honest, in the end the passenger will care how far their dollar will get them.
If the new Y seat isn't for anyone then you guys have Premium and Business. Yes they've changed the font and kangaroo but at the end of the day what matters is revenue.

 

[Quickstatus]

Right on the money!.
In the end that's the bottom line as many passengers will be looking at how many $$ it will cost to get there rather than seat featured or who the uber designers were or what Font the new letterhead is printed in.

doesnt matter what the aircraft is when you are in a cramped seat fighting for the arm rest

 

[nlagalle]

There have been innovation of course, however most of it's benefits have been embellished by the hype of marketing. In the end passengers won't care that their cramped seat is made out of space aged materials or designed by some uber industrial designer who will probably not have to travel in it.

Im sure many people who went to the event have test sat in it?
But Im also sure no one tested it with a passenger on either side and with the seat in front of you reclined and sat in it for 15 hours?.

Thinner seat = harder irrespective of what space aged material is used.
And oh let's not mention that VA has a wider seat with same pitch.

I agree that the event was not about the Y seats. The whole theme of the event was "New era same spirit".
The feature was a A330 with new paintwork
In other words:They changed the Font!. AKA changing the letterhead and making a big song and dance about it.
We know the "spirit" didn't change because they increased the luggage charges the next day.

So you'd prefer a seat from the 90's?? Because I can assure you the seat I travelled in to London back in the 90's I wouldn't want today.

Well considering the event didn't go for 15 hours it's doubtful but hey just sit back and be the armchair expert on a seat you haven't sat in...

And thinner doesn't mean harder, you are only thinking of the padding. There is more to a seat than that.

And most companies have some kind of launch when they rebrand. No big deal. As for the luggage charges well I never have excess so I don't really care and most people who travel don't either. It doesn't affect the majority of travellers

 

[nlagalle]

That's the true 2016 'Sprit of Australia': increasing 'hidden' ('ancillary') fees and charges in the hope that they'll get away with it.

Thinner seats on planes have been most unpopular. From memory CX was one airline that copped much backlash, although that was also about how some seats slid forwards, an innovation promoted by the airline but one that found no favour with passengers.

How many of the attendees at this QF party actually ever travel economy class and have the seat next to them occupied?

If I was QF I would have just featured their higher class seats - or just the new livery.

Doubtful they'd think they'd get away with it.. but again only affects excess baggage.. is the standard allowance the same?

And CX shell seats weren't thinner.. they just didn't recline, that was the complaint about them.

And plenty of guests there would travel economy, and have a person sitting next to them. Not every elite travels in premium cabins.

And they did have the J seats there. The PE ones are still being designed.

 

[Quickstatus]

In the end airlines have realised they can't command a price premium for a wider seat in that market segment.
For those who want a wider seat will have to fork out double for W and 4 times for J.

Thinking laterally - might just make the economics of a comfort seat or two between 2 people on the same ticket attractive.
As the row is 3,3,3 it would be very easy to pay for 3 seats for 2 pax.

 

[clifford]

The only decent 787 seat I've ever had was in QR J. NZ would be similar, but who would want to fly long haul in Y on JQ's sibling?

Notwithstanding the hype, of course.

 

[mannej]

That's the true 2016 'Sprit of Australia': increasing 'hidden' ('ancillary') fees and charges in the hope that they'll get away with it.

Thinner seats on planes have been most unpopular. From memory CX was one airline that copped much backlash, although that was also about how some seats slid forwards, an innovation promoted by the airline but one that found no favour with passengers.

How many of the attendees at this QF party actually ever travel economy class and have the seat next to them occupied?

If I was QF I would have just featured their higher class seats - or just the new livery.

Forget the cheap shots about the launch attendees, your point about the CX seats isn't 100% correct. The uproar was over the shell type seating that slid forward and not the slimline seating that is very common currently.

 

[JohnK]

In the end airlines have realised they can't command a price premium for a wider seat in that market segment.
For those who want a wider seat will have to fork out double for W and 4 times for J.

Why couldn't they create 3-4 rows of 8 across seating and call it Economy Plus? A mini cabin such as 747 with bulkhead/toilets behind and curtains.

If say a SYD-LAX/LHR is priced at ~$1600 for 9 across then 1 less seat between 8 people is only ~$200 more. I would pay the price. Similarly say a SYD-BKK/HKG/SIN flight is priced at ~$800 for 9 across then 1 less seat between 8 people is only ~$100 more. I would not think twice about paying that price.

The price difference I am proposing would more than cover the cost of 1 less seat and in fact Qantas would make a profit as it is one less departure tax, fuel surcharge, meal etc and they would fully recover the lost airfare.

On full flights obviously all Economy Plus seats will sell. On not so full flights they may not sell all Economy Plus seats and you can offer any leftover seats to your most loyal frequent flyers at check-in or the lounge.

No free upgrades to seat thieves as it should be treated like any premium cabin.

When do I get the job?

 

[moa999]

But there is already a much larger difference than $200 in various Y fare classes.

Do you save it for the most expensive fares??

And what do you do 2x4x2.. so you want people to pay more for E/F seats.

They have a class for people wanting to pay more - Premium Economy

 

[JohnK]

But there is already a much larger difference than $200 in various Y fare classes.

Do you save it for the most expensive fares??

You can have a standard Economy Plus and flexible Economy Plus. Where holiday periods have more expensive airfares Economy Plus airfare can also be adjusted upwards.

And what do you do 2x4x2.. so you want people to pay more for E/F seats.

Why not? You are still getting more seat width. Middle seat useful for those travelling together.

They have a class for people wanting to pay more - Premium Economy

Way overpriced and not interested.

One can get SYD-BKK/HKG/SIN in economy for ~$600. Premium economy only offered on SYD-HKG for now and the best price I have seen is $1499. It is not worth more than double the economy airfare. No way.

And if you do pay that price then hope you don't end up in middle seat with that ridiculous recline from seat in front.

 

[Quickstatus]

Why couldn't they create 3-4 rows of 8 across seating and call it Economy Plus? A mini cabin such as 747 with bulkhead/toilets behind and curtains.

If say a SYD-LAX/LHR is priced at ~$1600 for 9 across then 1 less seat between 8 people is only ~$200 more. I would pay the price. Similarly say a SYD-BKK/HKG/SIN flight is priced at ~$800 for 9 across then 1 less seat between 8 people is only ~$100 more. I would not think twice about paying that price.

The price difference I am proposing would more than cover the cost of 1 less seat and in fact Qantas would make a profit as it is one less departure tax, fuel surcharge, meal etc and they would fully recover the lost airfare.

On full flights obviously all Economy Plus seats will sell. On not so full flights they may not sell all Economy Plus seats and you can offer any leftover seats to your most loyal frequent flyers at check-in or the lounge.

No free upgrades to seat thieves as it should be treated like any premium cabin.

When do I get the job?

Thats what DL are doing and they have restricted Tier Status passengers to only getting those seats free if any are still available 3 days out from the flight.

 

[TomVexille]

Just an opinion of someone who has flown a fair share of Y, but 32in pitch isn't great as QF are proposing ULH routes with their 789s. 33 should have been the minimum, with 34 preferred. The narrow seat is also an issue to me. The two best Y seats I've sat in were new OZ 777 seats, 34in pitch, and the SQ a380 seats, 33in and probably the widest Y seat I've sat in.

Personally I'll try and avoid QF's 789s in Y, but I know I'm definitely in the minority of people who factor such things into decisions when booking flights.