NBN Discussion

[777]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

I should get some specific detail but suffice to say it was a typical 'Telstra" service. Multiple appointments (over several months) that were required on the company's time line and then did not turn up to. Ignore that people had to take time off work on a bunch of occasions.

Now after all the shenanigans they have the (large) boxes installed but still have to wait for Telstra to come along, sometime in the never never, to complete their part so that then they can roll over to NBN.

It has been quite a few months (late) now and will still continue for a few more months.

Not sure what the problem is but I've not had this problem here. NBN connected, working fine, from memory there was one appointment i needed to be home for when they put the terminal inside the house. I don't have any telstra services and telstra was never involved -- i'm not sure they aren't the problem if it's a telstra service she is waiting to connect?

One of the best features of the NBN is that it now means i can have nothing to do with Telstra!

 

[drron]

First to wafliron.I am sure there will be some savings in Health-a lot may be in areas we haven't thought about yet.
To Regional and rural Australia.This is going to become tricky.If people are going to access specialists remotely what is going to become of those medicos in regional and rural Australia.Especially in small rural towns it is hard to attract a doctor.And very unlikely you will get the old fashioned Jack of all Trades Rural GP.If their income falls what incentive is there for them to stay.And the NBN is not going to be able to do emergency burr holes in the middle of the night or to insert an intercostal drain necessary as the result of a head on on the highway that goes through town.
I did for a few years take part in the MSOAP program where specialists are paid an incentive to go to rural areas.I went to the North Burnett-places like Gayndah,monto and Eidsvold.I am in awe of the work the GPs did in those places.I just hope telehealth doesn't force them out.
In the area of collecting data to be forwarded to city specialists wifi is going to have to play a major role-the info is often needed when you are away from your fixed line.EG a farmer with cardiac problems has his severe chest pain on his tractor when he may be 20km away from his place.whereas if he has a smartphone with an ECG app he may be able to get advice immediately-hopefully his farm is on a main road!

Working in Tasmania I have been involved in teleconferencing for 5 years now-ie before NBN.It really is little changed since NBN.

And then as a dummy spit.Where I am staying in Armidale has free internet.Last month the service was fine.The only thing changed since I arrived back on Sunday was the connection to the NBN.The service in the first 36 hours was c**p.5 minutes for a page to load but often timing out.Told it has been fixed today so keeping my fingers crossed.I have not noticed any changes but being a dinosaur I only read the papers,fool around on AFF and read my emails-so all wasted on me.

 

[whatmeworry]

Looks like Telstra is slowing the rollout of the NBN till the election.
Telstra delaying NBN rollout: union officials

 

[codash1099]

Looks like Telstra is slowing the rollout of the NBN till the election.
Telstra delaying NBN rollout: union officials

When did you start believing "union officials"?

 

[serfty]

Interesting discussion on ABC Lateline last night.

From reading it seems Albanese was out of his depth ...

Here's a transcript: Lateline - 12/08/2013: NBN debate

Turnbull was quoting speeds of 100mbs over copper up to 400 metres from the node using VDSL2 ...

 

[markis10]

Turnbull was quoting speeds of 100mbs over copper up to 400 metres from the node using VDSL ...

HowStuffWorks "How VDSL Works"

Serfty, thats VDSL, not VDSL2 which is what MT was talking about:

http://www.zhone.com/solutions/docs/VDSL2_Primer.pdf

You get 100mbps using profile 30a down to about 1600ft of copper length, we have been deploying it for 5 years and in practice that is what is achieved.

 

[Moody]

Interesting discussion on ABC Lateline last night.

From reading it seems Albanese was out of his depth ...

Here's a transcript: Lateline - 12/08/2013: NBN debate

Turnbull was quoting speeds of 100mbs over copper up to 400 metres from the node using VDSL2 ...

Albo said "100mbs" when he meant to say "1000mbs", which Malcolm happily played along with for a laugh. Otherwise they sounded equally as plausible (or implausible) as each other. The costing models seem particularly at odds - with Malcolm claiming it will cost more than double the figure Albo stands by.

A couple of things that Malcolm said did not ring very true ..... one of them was that 100mbs was achievable over copper and that would satisfy the majority of the punters. Apart from the argument about provisioning, maintaining and powering that copper from the node (if it's close enough), there is also a question mark over capacity. Certainly 100mbs sounds pretty good now, but not so long ago I thought 3 hours of dial-up a month was an adequate internet plan, then we moved to 100MB, then 400MB, then a cable modem supplying 10mbs with 5GB, then 12GB, then 25GB, and now we are regularly exceeding that plan and the kids are screaming for more.

We don't download movies (but admittedly watch a view hours each month on iView) and we confiscate electronic devices each night, but still our usage marches ever higher. I just don't see the point in building an NBN that looks OK for a few years, but will need to be redone later - just to save a few billion dollars.

 

[amaroo]

Emma Alberici is very feisty.

Not many journalist/host get to dominate a Deputy PM or Malcolm. I suspect it has been many years since they've been approached in the way Emma does things.

I like her style - straight to the point, no BS, & no way they are allowed to waffle.

BTW - I prefer the plan that Malcolm is trying to get going. Why - the cost, the function, the need.

 

[markis10]

A couple of things that Malcolm said did not ring very true ..... one of them was that 100mbs was achievable over copper and that would satisfy the majority of the punters. Apart from the argument about provisioning, maintaining and powering that copper from the node (if it's close enough), there is also a question mark over capacity. Certainly 100mbs sounds pretty good now, but not so long ago I thought 3 hours of dial-up a month was an adequate internet plan, then we moved to 100MB, then 400MB, then a cable modem supplying 10mbs with 5GB, then 12GB, then 25GB, and now we are regularly exceeding that plan and the kids are screaming for more.

Some users will probably NEED high speed, not all, so why should everyone pay for a capability we all don't need, it's a bit like putting a 6 lane freeway in to replace every street. While the need for bandwidth has been growing at a pace that requires a logarithmic unit for measurement, the access methods for such bandwidth are changing as well, with fixed giving way to mobile. Backhaul has been the issue all along in Australia, both FTTN and FTTH help fix that and we should see better mobile coverage moving forward, I expect that will be the real economic benefit of the deployment making FTTN a much better option when it comes to societies ROI.

 

[travelislife]

With the arguments above we would have never ended up with phone lines to everyone's house. The thought process would
have been: Why does everyone need a phone line, we can just put a box down the street, they have lived without one for the last 100 years why need one now? I think at last this is a forward thinking project, and cost wise per capita is not much different to the roll out of copper. This country needs some long term thinking. Now don't get me started on The Victorian governments fixation that's more or wider roads will fix congestion, it just doesn't work like that, build the bloody train line! Geeze the vic roads lobby must has some power. Sorry for the OT rant!

 

[markis10]

With the arguments above we would have never ended up with phone lines to everyone's house.

We don't have phone lines to every house in Australia, and now a lot of them are not in use anyway!

 

[significance]

Some users will probably NEED high speed, not all, so why should everyone pay for a capability we all don't need.

As others have pointed out, the speed that the average person needs is rapidly increasing, and it makes more sense to put in the infrastructure in one go rather than have to go back a second time to retrofit after speed is lagging behind need.

Equally important, if everyone has reliable, high speed NBN, innovative companies will quickly start offering new services that depend on that high-speed connection. If only 5 or 10% have it, innovators that might like to offer new services will be stifled, as the potential market will be limited.

 

[markis10]

As others have pointed out, the speed that the average person needs is rapidly increasing, and it makes more sense to put in the infrastructure in one go rather than have to go back a second time to retrofit after speed is lagging behind need.

Equally important, if everyone has reliable, high speed NBN, innovative companies will quickly start offering new services that depend on that high-speed connection. If only 5 or 10% have it, innovators that might like to offer new services will be stifled, as the potential market will be limited.

Point is, why should we pay for capacity that won't be used by everybody, give people a basic 100mbps service and if you want more, pay for the fibre yourself, about the only innovator I can think of that wants everyone to have high speed broadband is the cough industry. Its still a fixed line play when most are going mobile.

 

[amaroo]

Point is, why should we pay for capacity that won't be used by everybody, give people a basic 100mbps service and if you want more, pay for the fibre yourself, about the only innovator I can think of that wants everyone to have high speed broadband is the cough industry. Its still a fixed line play when most are going mobile.

+ 1 How many Concorde are still flying around?

 

[significance]

Point is, why should we pay for capacity that won't be used by everybody, give people a basic 100mbps service and if you want more, pay for the fibre yourself, about the only innovator I can think of that wants everyone to have high speed broadband is the cough industry. Its still a fixed line play when most are going mobile.

Let's say someone comes up with an idea for a new service that 70% of households would want. If everyone already has the connection, the idea is highly commercial and can go ahead, as can the next 10 or 20 innovations like it. If only a few people have the connection, it's a non-starter. Sure, 70% might want it in theory, but not many are going to pay a $3000 connection fee just to try out this one service. Same thing when the next idea rolls around a year later (after the first start-up has failed), and the next one the year after that.

It isn't a matter of everyone paying for something that only a few people will use, but a matter of us collectively paying for something that we will all eventually be using.

I can think of all sorts of ways that high-speed NBN could enhance our lives, but the big innovations are the ones we can't think of right now.
(A few obvious, easy uses of NBN that I can think of immediately: HD videoconferencing, streaming HD movies, 3D gaming, immersive remote medical services, immersive telepresence for working from home...)

 

[markis10]

Let's say someone comes up with an idea for a new service that 70% of households would want. If everyone already has the connection, the idea is highly commercial and can go ahead, as can the next 10 or 20 innovations like it. If only a few people have the connection, it's a non-starter. Sure, 70% might want it in theory, but not many are going to pay a $3000 connection fee just to try out this one service. Same thing when the next idea rolls around a year later (after the first start-up has failed), and the next one the year after that.

It isn't a matter of everyone paying for something that only a few people will use, but a matter of us collectively paying for something that we will all eventually be using.

I can think of all sorts of ways that high-speed NBN could enhance our lives, but the big innovations are the ones we can't think of right now.
(A few obvious, easy uses of NBN that I can think of immediately: HD videoconferencing, streaming HD movies, 3D gaming, immersive remote medical services, immersive telepresence for working from home...)

Most of the "ideas" that consume bandwidth are illegal or reside in the cough/ gambling industries, we already have enough bandwidth for video conferencing and remote working. As for remote medical services. Are you suggesting we run fibre to every country community, it would bankrupt us!

Mobile is where the ROI is, that's FTTN, not FTTH, otherwise we are just talking pink batts yet again.

 

[Austman]

The NBN implementation has also almost completely ignored MDUs (Multi-Dwelling Units - eg apartments). Like with Optus/Bigpond cable/Foxtel implementation for mid sized apartment complexes, it seems to be largely in the "too hard basket", at least up to now. Nearly 15% of Australians live in apartments with that percentage no doubt a lot higher in the cities. High rises with accessible service ducting and new builds might be relatively straightforward to connect. But for the 1000s of existing medium size apartment complexes, running new cables to all the apartments is an Owners Corporation nightmare. It was for Optus/Bigpound cable/Foxtel implementations and I can't see it changing for NBN. Google "NBN and MDU" and see how little info is out there and how MDU connection has just about been ignored all together by NBNCo.

Even a solution that gets the NBN to an apartment building's MDF and then uses the existing telephone cables within the building (ie they will be very short runs) is going to help OCs implement it.

 

[significance]

Most of the "ideas" that consume bandwidth are illegal or reside in the cough/ gambling industries, we already have enough bandwidth for video conferencing and remote working. As for remote medical services. Are you suggesting we run fibre to every country community, it would bankrupt us!

We have enough bandwidth for low-resolution videoconferencing, which is fine for one-on-one conversations. We don't have enough bandwidth currently to videoconference effectively with a room full of people. With current bandwidth, you either can't see facial details of people in the other room, or the refresh rate is too slow to be naturalistic. As a result, when meetings run for longer than an hour or two, we still have to travel. And as screens get bigger, the bandwidth required for real HD is getting higher.

ETA: Which ideas are illegal?

 

[markis10]

We have enough bandwidth for low-resolution videoconferencing, which is fine for one-on-one conversations. We don't have enough bandwidth currently to videoconference effectively with a room full of people. With current bandwidth, you either can't see facial details of people in the other room, or the refresh rate is too slow to be naturalistic. As a result, when meetings run for longer than an hour or two, we still have to travel. And as screens get bigger, the bandwidth required for real HD is getting higher.

ETA: Which ideas are illegal?

Using H264 you can transmit 1080p resolution video at 30 frames per second and it takes 1mbps or 1/100th of the bandwidth the coalition is offering through FTTN. As for illegal ideas, try peer to peer sharing of DRM, streaming of content not yet rated, unlicensed gaming sites (ie the poker sites shut down by the FBI) etc etc, I believe Mr.dot com likes bandwidth ,

 

[straitman]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

Having just visited my sister's house in Canberra that has just had the NBN boxes attached all I can say is that it is all a joke :!:

SORRY a very expensive joke.

Further to this post of mine of 15th July. They (my sister & husband) have now had their NBN connected for about 2 weeks and their internet has gone from quite reasonable to impossibly slow and the NBN people don't seem to know how to fix it at this stage.