NBN Discussion

[RooFlyer]

The technology is the same.

That's because the demand for 'speed' continues to increase exponentially.

is it 'cellular', as you described it? Can't see my house whizzing past the Fixed Wireless towers.

As I indicated, the 'demand for speed' is only in certain markets, mainly where the media nongs live (cities). Take a wander outside the main urban areas and you'll find folk, like me, happy for any decent broadband service that's not expensive 3/4G. In fact, at my holiday house (rental) place I definitely don't want very high speed (gasp!). The punters will just snork it up. I want ANY broadband that's not (expensive Telstra) 3G. ADSL would have done, but, nada available. NBN fixed wireless will do nicely and sooooooo much cheaper.

 

[drron]

I am a tech dinosaur and do not understand IT talk.But I read and on the basis of my reading I make investments-several in small Aussie tech stocks.I am well in front.There are Aussie companies offering fixed wireless services at fast speed-
Fast Symmetrical Connectivity | Wirefreebroadband - Fixed Wireless Ethernet
Fixed Wireless Network

and the future may be even better-
World’s fastest wireless network hits 100 gigabits per second, can scale to terabits | ExtremeTech

The problem with Conroy and the NBN was there was never a properly assessed business plan.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Great 7:30 report tonight. Abbott and whatever excuse the Nats gave for a leader, promised a handshake deal (as filmed) to Birdsville for a fibre connection. Then Abbott reneged and said they would have satellite by 2016.

1st point. [expletive deleted] what's the point of the National Party when they don't even stand up for the bush.

2nd point. Turnbull was on next supporting and defending the decision that satellite would deliver far better connections than the promised fibre. I'm really getting annoyed at Turnbull defending this stupidity and just being pompous and condescending when he knows better.

Heavans above. When will we be able to get back to evidenced based policy in this country and the media not keep rolling over and having their tummies tickled by short term think of charlatan politicians.

Utopia on ABC on Wednesday is far too real.

[rant]
Australian govt can borrow 100 billion at fixed 1.5 -2% for 30 years and develop real infrastructure in this country to develop our scientific and intellectual resources. Even the labor NBN under the original Lib scare tactic values can make a return on investment at that rate while delivering real infrastructure to allow Australia to develop.

Seems good enough for Apple to put out bonds for some 3 billion.

As another example, (OTT) can anyone explain to me why, apart from not having a Liberal Nat govt that does not believe in any expenditure for the country, Bolivia with some 45% of the world's Lithium resources has mandated that lithium can't be exported and has to be value added in Bolivia?

[\rant]

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Fixed wireless, while based on 4G LTE technologies, is a directional, less contended service, so will not suffer the same issues of over subscription as Telstra 4G for example.

Fixed wireless will deliver an expected 50/10Mbps service which is more than adequate.

The full HD video conferencing equipment we use needs less than 2Mbps.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

By the way, if you are all wanting FTTP, there are many commercial providers who will charge you about $4k install and around $800 per month, depending on speed required. Go for your life, but fellow taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for it.

 

[travelislife]

By the way, if you are all wanting FTTP, there are many commercial providers who will charge you about $4k install and around $800 per month, depending on speed required. Go for your life, but fellow taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for it.

Was the same thought process used when they rolled out the copper network 100 years ago? Don't think so. Heck people didn't think they needed a phone in every house. Our government (and in turn a lot of the population in how we vote) aren't willing to be long term forward thinking. It is impossible to know what the future holds (when they built the copper they didn't believe or know that the internet would be invented. Some things need to be funded in a 'social sense' for the benefit of society. If everything goes user pays it is the lower economic parts of the spectrum that miss out. The original FTTP or FTTH on a per capita basis was cheaper than the copper network roll out.

 

[serfty]

Daught just moved into a place in [-]Carrum Downs[/-] Skye ... across the road is a relatively new shopping centre.

They have ADSL 2+ and have been b!tiching about how slow it is. So went over I tapped their WiFi for an an Ookla test and found it running at about 4.7mbps - it had been about 6 Mbps at their previous premises not really that much difference.

I checked out the LTE on my 4G ... WTF! 54 Mbps!!! Such has been repeatable over several tests then and over several more weeks at differing times of day.

No wonder the were complaining about the WfFi speed after contrasting it with a 90% reduction.

(FWIW, between her and partner, the two of them blew their Mobile data allowance by 10Gbyte - out of a combined 11.5 in the week waiting for the ADSL to be connected - speed kills the bills ...)

 

[serfty]

Great 7:30 report tonight.

Yes, it came out that Birdsville can't currently get a reliable 2Mbps (enough for a basic video conf. link) out of a Conroy NBN provided satellite service.

A new satellite, the first of two "ka-band" capable of supplying 25 Mbps, is due to be launched on October 1st 2015.

 

[drsmithy]

By the way, if you are all wanting FTTP, there are many commercial providers who will charge you about $4k install and around $800 per month, depending on speed required. Go for your life, but fellow taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for it.

Same argument applies to your fixed wireless champ. Why should I be paying for it to be installed so you can get internet ? My ADSL2 works fine !

Heck, the same logic applies to the original running of copper. Somehow the country managed to survive that, and even prosper from it.

 

[drsmithy]

Fixed wireless, while based on 4G LTE technologies, is a directional, less contended service, so will not suffer the same issues of over subscription as Telstra 4G for example.

Fixed wireless will deliver an expected 50/10Mbps service which is more than adequate.

It will still suffer from the inherent weaknesses of wireless services. Unreliability, contention, etc.

The full HD video conferencing equipment we use needs less than 2Mbps.

How about if you want to upload detailed medical images in a timely manner so you don't have to fly halfway across the country for a checkup ?

 

[drsmithy]

[rant]
Australian govt can borrow 100 billion at fixed 1.5 -2% for 30 years and develop real infrastructure in this country to develop our scientific and intellectual resources. Even the labor NBN under the original Lib scare tactic values can make a return on investment at that rate while delivering real infrastructure to allow Australia to develop.

Even better than that. If they Government wants they can create $100b completely interest free.

Seems good enough for Apple to put out bonds for some 3 billion.

As another example, (OTT) can anyone explain to me why, apart from not having a Liberal Nat govt that does not believe in any expenditure for the country, Bolivia with some 45% of the world's Lithium resources has mandated that lithium can't be exported and has to be value added in Bolivia?

[\rant]

Cuz they're filthy socialists. We don't have any of that "put the people first" rubbish here (anymore).

 

[drron]

It will still suffer from the inherent weaknesses of wireless services. Unreliability, contention, etc.

Looks OK at the moment-see links



How about if you want to upload detailed medical images in a timely manner so you don't have to fly halfway across the country for a checkup ?

So how come in 2008-ie before NBN-I could have a CT done after hours on the NW coast of Tasmania and have the report done in Melbourne 5 minutes after the scan was done?
Now of course that report comes from London.

 

[TheRealTMA]

So how come in 2008-ie before NBN-I could have a CT done after hours on the NW coast of Tasmania and have the report done in Melbourne 5 minutes after the scan was done?
Now of course that report comes from London.

Ah it used to be the definition of an expert was someone on the lectern with a box of slides. Guess now it's an expensive consultant OS with a network connection. Probably the people in Edinburgh have their scans analysed in Melbourne.

 

[significance]

By the way, if you are all wanting FTTP, there are many commercial providers who will charge you about $4k install and around $800 per month, depending on speed required. Go for your life, but fellow taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for it.

Do you apply the same logic to other basic infrastructure? Should taxpayers not being paying for my road, electricity and water connections? Should I have paid a commercial provider to run a pipe from the dam to my house, and someone else to lay a road from the major highway to my house? Some people would argue "yes", but the trouble is, I would probably choose to get a 4WD instead, and run overland rather than building a road. The result would be higher overall costs, more erosion, pollution and traffic fatalities. Similarly, if we leave it to individuals to pay for their own broadband infrastructure, most won't, and the result will be lower economic growth, reduced services and poorly functioning networks.

 

[moa999]

Do you apply the same logic to other basic infrastructure? Should taxpayers not being paying for my road, electricity and water connections? Should I have paid a commercial provider to run a pipe from the dam to my house, and someone else to lay a road from the major highway to my house? Some people would argue "yes", but the trouble is, I would probably choose to get a 4WD instead, and run overland rather than building a road. The result would be higher overall costs, more erosion, pollution and traffic fatalities. Similarly, if we leave it to individuals to pay for their own broadband infrastructure, most won't, and the result will be lower economic growth, reduced services and poorly functioning networks.

The government had decided to upgrade everyone's driveways. In some cases they will install a 4-Lane brick paved driveway (FTTP), in most they will just replace the existing surface with new bitumen (FTTB/FTTN) and for a few with really long driveways they will put in a teleport machine (FW/Satellite)

That is what the current government has chosen to provide you... If you want more you have the ability to pay for it yourself

Everything in government is a trade off between cost, individual and social benefit

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Same argument applies to your fixed wireless champ. Why should I be paying for it to be installed so you can get internet ? My ADSL2 works fine !

Heck, the same logic applies to the original running of copper. Somehow the country managed to survive that, and even prosper from it.

The country didn't run copper to the premises, it ran it in the street. If you wanted to connect to it, you paid a connection fee where trenching was done to bring the copper into the premises. It should be the same with NBN. A FTTN offering is available over existing copper, and for those who want FTTP they can pay to drag the fibre in from the street.

As for the bush, there is no way that running FTTP or even FTTN is in any way feasible outside of major regional centers.

To address your other comment, you mustn't have used modern LTE networks which are extremely reliable, especially when deployed in a fixed wireless configuration. If you can't upload medical imaging at 10Mbps then you have issues with dated equipment that can't apply modern compression standards.

I reiterate, we run video conferencing systems at full HD 1080p plus content (slides, images, etc.) on less than 2Mbps quite reliably. Latency is more of the issue there, which fixed wireless will outperform satellite considerably.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Do you apply the same logic to other basic infrastructure? Should taxpayers not being paying for my road, electricity and water connections? Should I have paid a commercial provider to run a pipe from the dam to my house, and someone else to lay a road from the major highway to my house? Some people would argue "yes", but the trouble is, I would probably choose to get a 4WD instead, and run overland rather than building a road. The result would be higher overall costs, more erosion, pollution and traffic fatalities. Similarly, if we leave it to individuals to pay for their own broadband infrastructure, most won't, and the result will be lower economic growth, reduced services and poorly functioning networks.

A bit of a straw man argument. The government provides you a water connection, however if you wish to consume more water than will fit down your standard 16mm pipe, you need to pay to upgrade it to 32mm (or whatever the sizes are). The same with electricity. If you need a higher capacity meter, you pay for it, not the electricity company.

And as for copper, I have many many clients who run hundreds of Mbps over copper based services. It's called EFM or Ethernet in the First Mile, and is a well established, high grade commercial solution running many company networks around Australia. The removal of voice services on copper opens up more frequencies for additional bandwidth. FTTN will use this technology to deliver better services to more homes.

Of course in a dream land we'd love to all have a fibre strand running into every premises, but it is completely unrealistic in a country with such relatively low population density and vast distances.

Just for those who are geographically challenged, see here:

 

[RooFlyer]

Fixed wireless, while based on 4G LTE technologies, is a directional, less contended service, so will not suffer the same issues of over subscription as Telstra 4G for example.

Fixed wireless will deliver an expected 50/10Mbps service which is more than adequate.
<snip>.

It will still suffer from the inherent weaknesses of wireless services. Unreliability, contention, etc. <snip> ?

Ho, ho, ho. Think 'fixed line' services don't have those issues? Every time I drive from my location in eastern Tasmania to Hobart, I look at the optic fibre 'backbone' that is going to service all the towns up our coast, via FTTP, Fixed Wireless etc. I can see it because its strung along the power poles by the side of the highway; really distinctive because its the lowest strung cable.

Wonder what happens when a tree branch comes down, or a car goes into one of the poles. Whole bloody internet goes down in the east of the state. Not saying existing services are immune, but the optic fibre bizzo isn't going to be secure, either.

Unless some-one wants to pay for a trench of course, with all the planning issues and costs, appeals, etc etc. .

 

[drsmithy]

The country didn't run copper to the premises, it ran it in the street. If you wanted to connect to it, you paid a connection fee where trenching was done to bring the copper into the premises. It should be the same with NBN. A FTTN offering is available over existing copper, and for those who want FTTP they can pay to drag the fibre in from the street.

Actually I think most would be happy with a fibre run down the street and paying to do the last twenty metres.

But this isn't being done. Instead they're running to the end of the street (if you're lucky) and relying on ****ty old copper lines that won't last and the whole shebang will have to be ripped and replaced in a decade or so, when for not a lot more they could have done it properly and future-proofed for many decades by running fibre.

 

[drsmithy]

Of course in a dream land we'd love to all have a fibre strand running into every premises, but it is completely unrealistic in a country with such relatively low population density and vast distances.

Speaking of straw men, This is a furphy. Australia is big, and there's not a lot of people, but nearly all of them are stuffed into a relative handful of cities. Our urban density is actually quite high - the "aussie bush town" is an anachronism.

Just for those who are geographically challenged, see here:
View attachment 54697

This is a deceptive comparison.